Maybe we should thank M.W after all?

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

I mean, at first it did seem like an "I win button", but now it does seem to be rather balanced and all. The fluff may be crap and all, but the rules are far more balanced than they ever were since... well, 3rd edition.

 

Back then Blood Angels really were vanilla marines +1. We had furious charge for free, we had nifty rules that made us move faster on a "1" (which also affected crap such as devastators and predators, but who used those?), and we had stupidly fast rhinos, with stupid rules that made us able to disembark AND shoot after going up to 24" in a single turn.

The death company were random, but always plentiful (hello underpriced chaplain with 3+d3 D.C). Hell, scouts with c.c weapons were like the best units in the book, due to being dirt cheap and F.C combined with infiltrate. And let's not forget the naked veteran sarges we were all guilty of (whaaat, he becomes death company with a power fist and a free jump pack on 4+?).

 

All in all, I am extremely happy with the new codex. I know you are too. Or?

[Rik84]

i agree to some of what you said, but the 3rd ed codex wasnt that bad, i remember playing the Angels of Death codex and finding it just as fun and sometimes OP, yes the codex of to day is balanced but only in parts. I enjoyed the random effects that the death company had on your army, and i think they got it right with how they did them in the PDF before this codex came out, todays DC are a unit that cost far to much to be that effective, i mean a full 30 strong unit with max upgrade will cost 1500 points plus, this to me is just silly, why do they cost that much.

 

Mr ward has done some nice things for the codex, but very few, Dante is nice, but still under used, Red thirst, is rather nice now, and i like it that aspect of the codex. But there are things that he just screwed up badly on.

 

Sang, this guy is a joke, a one man LoD, nice model, but Ward had nothing to do with that, did the BA really need a ghost of there Primarch in a codex???

Meph, were do we start with this loyist demon price?? the most OP thing we have, i dont use him and never will, mainly becuase he was on of the SC i really liked from the back ground and the older codexs, Ward has killed him, and turned him into a joke, yes he can be killed but from long range big guns due to not having his inv save or IC.

Sang Guard, i like the idear but we didnt need a new unit, never mind a unit that was from the crusade, and here is a question on there background, if the primarch is dead shouldnt they have been disbanded, what role do they have in the chapter now? who do they protect Danta? if what what about the gold helmed Honor guard? with one unit he kind of screwed with the back ground on the way the chapter was made up.

 

so in away he did ok but then his ground work was from Codex SM, not this one, he peed over the chapter fluss, and destroyed some of the best things about us, i still play them because there is something rather cool about an all red marine army on the table top and i love the new air mobile aspect we have now.

 

oh forgot deep striking land raiders :) :) :cuss.. why... ? are we the only chapter with thunderhawk transporters.....?????

[AngelofSorrow]

I absolutely love the fluff and rules.

 

Absolutely brilliant writing really brings the chapter into it's own. Great rules make it feel like not your standard marine army and its well balanced.

Along with his other work Matthew ward is definitely my favorite codex author by far.

[SnorriSnorrison]

i agree to some of what you said, but the 3rd ed codex wasnt that bad, i remember playing the Angels of Death codex and finding it just as fun and sometimes OP, yes the codex of to day is balanced but only in parts. I enjoyed the random effects that the death company had on your army, and i think they got it right with how they did them in the PDF before this codex came out, todays DC are a unit that cost far to much to be that effective, i mean a full 30 strong unit with max upgrade will cost 1500 points plus, this to me is just silly, why do they cost that much.

 

Mr ward has done some nice things for the codex, but very few, Danta is nice, but still under used, Red thirst, is rather nice now, and i like it that aspect of the codex. But there are things that he just screwed up badly on.

 

Sang, this guy is a joke, a one man LoD, nice model, but Ward had nothing to do with that, did the BA really need a ghost of there Primarch in a codex???

Meph, were do we start with this loyist demon price?? the most OP thing we have, i dont use him and never will, mainly becuase he was on of the SC i really liked from the back ground and the older codexs, Ward has killed him, and turned him into a joke, yes he can be killed but from long range big guns due to not having his inv save or IC.

Sang Guard, i like the idear but we didnt need a new unit, never mind a unit that was from the crusade, and here is a question on there background, if the primarch is dead shouldnt they have been disbanded, what role do they have in the chapter now? who do they protect Danta? if what what about the gold helmed Honor guard? with one unit he kind of screwed with the back ground on the way the chapter was made up.

 

so in away he did ok but then his ground work was from Codex SM, not this one, he peed over the chapter fluss, and destroyed some of the best things about us, i still play them because there is something rather cool about an all red marine army on the table top and i love the new air mobile aspect we have now.

 

oh forgot deep striking land raiders :cuss :cuss :cuss.. why... ? are we the only chapter with thunderhawk transporters.....?????

 

 

Dude, it's Dante. This might be the most terrible mistake when it comes to 40k names. :D

 

I agree with some of what you said. Mainly that the Sanguinor is a joke and the crappy fluff.

 

I disagree, however, with the points you made on the Red Thirst and Mephiston. The Red Thirst may or may be not the most overlooked rule in the whole book. When I don't forget about it(until, lets say, 3rd turn) I don't roll enough 1s, or in case I do, the tactical squad or the devastator squad gets RT...which is not bad at all, but an assault squad benefits most from the special rules it provides.

 

Then, Mephiston. I don't think that Ward killed him, he just went a little bananas on this guy. His profile is definitely not appropriate to a Space Marine, but rather a daemon prince. However, his rules are close to what those he had in 3rd Edition and in fourth edition, so I see his development as natural.

 

Oh, and every new codex gets new units, that's a marketing strategy, not really the author's decision. He can create the fluff around those units, which I think he did surprisingly well, in case of the Sanguinary Guard at least. And it helps that the models are gorgeous.

 

 

 

My biggest gripe is the Captain's unit entry. I don't think that Ward killed Mephiston, but he definitely did kill the humble Captain. No artificer armour, no relic blades or even blade encarmine(seriously, that's completely senseless. Even Vanguard Veterans can get one, but not the leaders of a whole battle company? Yeah, I see...).

His special rules that made him a popular choice in the previous editions of our codex are now gone, which means that reclusiarchs and Librarians are more useful for the rest of the army and therefore are fielded more often.

For this crime against humanity, Ward has become a blazing red rag to a bull for me. Yeah, call it Nerd Rage if you want, but I used to field Captains in every game, now they have become mere combat machines...which we got plenty of.

 

 

Besides that, the codex is nice to play and balanced in the most builds. The flexibility it offers is great, and the majority of the new units can complement each other very well.

 

 

 

Snorri

[Rik84]

*edited Dante* cheers dude

 

i like the way red thirst works now, its a one in six chance you will get it, unless you bring The Grim, i like it this way more so than i did in old Ed's.

 

as for Meph i used to like him now i dont, just becuase i dont like what he has done with him. I agree total with what you said about capatian, i do use on in my army and love them, give him a pair of lighting claws and for 130 points you have a monster on your hands.

 

what i was trying to say about the Sang Guard, is that i know new units will always happen, but why not a new Honor guard unit, they have been around since the first codex why not take that unit and make them into something like your Sang Guard, the gold helms just seem to have been added to stern guard now, whch makes me sad.

 

dont get me wrong i enjoy this codex, but im far from a fan of Mr Wards, and dont think he writes great book but hay i'll still use his codexs but just skip past the background lol

 

rik

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

I, and all my friends who play B.A, were postively thrilled with the S.G. They provided us with the tough power-weapon wielding J.P unit which we always wanted, and were affordable (in points). The 3rd ed honour guard for like.. 70 points a piece doesn't really count. The fluff was a big meh, but I really like them game-wise.

[SnorriSnorrison]

*edited Dante* cheers dude

 

i like the way red thirst works now, its a one in six chance you will get it, unless you bring The Grim, i like it this way more so than i did in old Ed's.

 

 

Well, that's just a matter of personal preference. At least it is better than the pdf-dex. ^^

 

as for Meph i used to like him now i dont, just becuase i dont like what he has done with him. I agree total with what you said about capatian, i do use on in my army and love them, give him a pair of lighting claws and for 130 points you have a monster on your hands.

 

Mh, again, personal preference. I've run him once, and I ran him without any skill or tactic...he got killed on the second turn. Still needs skill I guess. :cuss

 

what i was trying to say about the Sang Guard, is that i know new units will always happen, but why not a new Honor guard unit, they have been around since the first codex why not take that unit and make them into something like your Sang Guard, the gold helms just seem to have been added to stern guard now, whch makes me sad.

 

All veterans now have golden helmets, to distinguish them from Assault squads...which is "okay", but I like my veterans(which are still assault units for me. Screw Sternguard. :cuss) with yellow helmets, my Tacticals' helmets red, my Devs' helmets blue and Honour Guard will always have golden helmets.

Why the SG? I like their background. The personal guardians of the Primarch, now the most honourable Veterans within the chapter...and they still don't have WS5.

 

Honour Guard are still a valid choice. They have the built-in priest and various options that make them very versatile. Different role on the battlefield. :cuss

 

dont get me wrong i enjoy this codex, but im far from a fan of Mr Wards, and dont think he writes great book but hay i'll still use his codexs but just skip past the background lol

 

rik

 

Neither am I. First time I read our Codex, I was filled with rage because of the things that could have easily been fixed/made better from the beginning. Really stupid mistakes in some places. And don't get me started on the whole Necron-issue.

 

 

Snorri

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

Maybe the necron issue will be slightly smaller in the future, seems the rumors make the nex dex out to be a real re-vamp of their fluff.

But well... it's still stupid.

[nagashnee]

The Matt Ward book is the worst BA codex i have ever played with ( i do not count the pdf as a codex), the fluff was horrible and the rules brought nothing new to the game or the overall feel of the chapter.

 

Single worse example from the book is the fact that death company tycho cannot infact join the death company :lol: ....really Ward? really?

[JamesI]

I think the current codex is far better than the 3rd edition one with random DC and free powerfists/power weapons in the DC.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

The Matt Ward book is the worst BA codex i have ever played with ( i do not count the pdf as a codex), the fluff was horrible and the rules brought nothing new to the game or the overall feel of the chapter.

 

Single worse example from the book is the fact that death company tycho cannot infact join the death company :P ....really Ward? really?

 

I say it added a whole lot. A reliance on priests as focal part of forces (ergo; making them good, but we can pretend we now understamd their bond with their primarch better).

 

It made all Rhino-chassies fast, in a coherent way that makes sense and most importantly isn't free.

 

It introduced a new focus on B.A as a pure assault force, as in that it can be effectively fielded as such, with the addition of RAS as troops (and an almost fluffy explanation for this),

 

It brought back the D.C dread, introduced Libby dreads and S.G.

 

Sure, the book is crap (the fluff), but B.A are for the first time a balanced force that plays differently from marines, without being cheap.

[Boltergeist]

I really like the 5th ed codex. You definitely pay for what you get, and overall it is balanced and a lot of fun. Yes, the fluff is over the top etc etc but it's still well done overall.

 

GW is getting away from the randomness of the older editions, which IMO is a good thing. Having a mandatory random DC (that potentially drained your other squads) was always rather silly, as was the "run on a one" rule. The current 'dex gives you a whole different playstyle than the other marine books, which adds to the variety of the game as a whole.

[Zeller]

I agree. The current book feels great. Issues such as DC Tycho and no way to take LR as heavy support (not sure why they're all dedicated transports) suck and frankly make little sense but other than that no complaints here.

[Hfran Morkai]

Your rhinos also have doors now :P

[1Drop]

The DC Tyco thing is ridiculous, DC cost too much (or do they?) but I feel Ward definitely has a gift when it comes to writing rules when he gets it right which often he does but at the same time he murdered our fluff, why doesn't Ward just write the rules and someone else who knows all the previous fluff write that part of the dex to save from contradictions, mind wipping and 'tin man' allies.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

The DC Tyco thing is ridiculous, DC cost too much (or do they?) but I feel Ward definitely has a gift when it comes to writing rules when he gets it right which often he does but at the same time he murdered our fluff, why doesn't Ward just write the rules and someone else who knows all the previous fluff write that part of the dex to save from contradictions, mind wipping and 'tin man' allies.

 

D.C in rhinos or pods (or raiders) are actually cheap. They are after all veterans, but with WS5 and all that other crap. It's the jump packs, which for some stupid reason, cost more than on anything else. 10 D.C with bolters, 2 fists and a Rhino are a steal at 300 points.

[1Drop]

The DC Tyco thing is ridiculous, DC cost too much (or do they?) but I feel Ward definitely has a gift when it comes to writing rules when he gets it right which often he does but at the same time he murdered our fluff, why doesn't Ward just write the rules and someone else who knows all the previous fluff write that part of the dex to save from contradictions, mind wipping and 'tin man' allies.

 

D.C in rhinos or pods (or raiders) are actually cheap. They are after all veterans, but with WS5 and all that other crap. It's the jump packs, which for some stupid reason, cost more than on anything else. 10 D.C with bolters, 2 fists and a Rhino are a steal at 300 points.

 

Yeah, I go for a SR so I can have lemartes and a DC dread too which isn't exactly cheap but it's definitely worth it! And yes, jp's for DC are too expensive, don't think I'll ever use them.

[knife&fork]

I do like how it's mostly well balanced, but one thing kind of rubs me the wrong way. Look at the sang guard for example.

 

"The very elite, what everyone wants to be, the guys you look up, bla bla bla.."

WS4BS4I4

 

Matt ward does this a lot. It's probably to prevent codex creep but it's a bit silly sometimes. At least bump them to WS5 or something.

[Hfran Morkai]

I do like how it's mostly well balanced, but one thing kind of rubs me the wrong way. Look at the sang guard for example.

 

"The very elite, what everyone wants to be, the guys you look up, bla bla bla.."

WS4BS4I4

 

Matt ward does this a lot. It's probably to prevent codex creep but it's a bit silly sometimes. At least bump them to WS5 or something.

 

Just about every Power Armoured Elite is like that, it's what happens when you work with a system that works on 10 for stats.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

I do like how it's mostly well balanced, but one thing kind of rubs me the wrong way. Look at the sang guard for example.

 

"The very elite, what everyone wants to be, the guys you look up, bla bla bla.."

WS4BS4I4

 

Matt ward does this a lot. It's probably to prevent codex creep but it's a bit silly sometimes. At least bump them to WS5 or something.

 

That bit is quite epic fail indeed. I do wish they had WS5, but I don't think that I'd want to pay the extra points for it. I guess that a solid WS5 could be worth the same as the Death Masks, and they we're pushing it for a unit with no ++.

[vharing]

I think the current codex is far better than the 3rd edition one with random DC and free powerfists/power weapons in the DC.

 

I actually miss the old way of getting DC. It more stuck to the fluff for battle brothers falling to the black rage before battle. My army was almost always led by a chaplain so I could have a juicy death company.

[shinigami]

I can't really say I agree with the author of the topic (and many of the replies).

 

These BA are surely competitive overall, but I think MW FAILED in expressing the chapter's feel in term of actual army mechanics. I also think he made a boring codex.

Let's face it, in order to make a list competitive under the current codex, you'll end up playin' an heavily mechanized countercharge list (with the usual, awful mephiston) most of the times. No thanks. This doesn't feel BA.

I can't call "BA dex" something that makes the death company what it currently is. The sang. priest system is something i dislike as well. It may be personal taste, but i still feel uneasy at spending all that points for an IC that will mostly sit inside a rinho to avoid being killed by the first idiot passing by. There's so many choices, on this dex, that simply are not worth being played. And the worst thing is that many of them are the "best" fluff-wise (DC again).

 

It may be Italy, where I live, but here BAs have became predators, duble 5 men assault sq. on razors, mephiston, stormravens and perhaps some assault termies, with a few variations (usually more ravens or more tanks, some rare dreads). Other lists or choices are simply considered not worth the points by most of the players, and from a "competitiveness" point of view, I can't say these guys are wrong.

 

This not to mention the horrible job made in terms of fluff and background. Consider I am a flesh tearers player; I feel like crying every time I read what my proud chapter has become. And i feel like crying when I see my chapter master. Both in terms of rules AND model ( yes, I am speaking of that idiot Mr. potato head, that I've swapped, but I still feel offended).

This codex lacks of flexibility and versatility, it is "plastered", if you get what i mean.

 

All in all and once dropped the whole "appearance" stuff, I go so far by saying that this dex has many of the flaws that made me HATE the old pdf.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

I think the current codex is far better than the 3rd edition one with random DC and free powerfists/power weapons in the DC.

 

I actually miss the old way of getting DC. It more stuck to the fluff for battle brothers falling to the black rage before battle. My army was almost always led by a chaplain so I could have a juicy death company.

 

It was all fluffy and nice, that we can all agree on. But it wasn't balanced in any way.

[SnorriSnorrison]

I can't really say I agree with the author of the topic (and many of the replies).

 

These BA are surely competitive overall, but I think MW FAILED in expressing the chapter's feel in term of actual army mechanics. I also think he made a boring codex.

Let's face it, in order to make a list competitive under the current codex, you'll end up playin' an heavily mechanized countercharge list (with the usual, awful mephiston) most of the times. No thanks. This doesn't feel BA.

I can't call "BA dex" something that makes the death company what it currently is. The sang. priest system is something i dislike as well. It may be personal taste, but i still feel uneasy at spending all that points for an IC that will mostly sit inside a rinho to avoid being killed by the first idiot passing by. There's so many choices, on this dex, that simply are not worth being played. And the worst thing is that many of them are the "best" fluff-wise (DC again).

 

It may be Italy, where I live, but here BAs have became predators, duble 5 men assault sq. on razors, mephiston, stormravens and perhaps some assault termies, with a few variations (usually more ravens or more tanks, some rare dreads). Other lists or choices are simply considered not worth the points by most of the players, and from a "competitiveness" point of view, I can't say these guys are wrong.

 

This not to mention the horrible job made in terms of fluff and background. Consider I am a flesh tearers player; I feel like crying every time I read what my proud chapter has become. And i feel like crying when I see my chapter master. Both in terms of rules AND model ( yes, I am speaking of that idiot Mr. potato head, that I've swapped, but I still feel offended).

This codex lacks of flexibility and versatility, it is "plastered", if you get what i mean.

 

All in all and once dropped the whole "appearance" stuff, I go so far by saying that this dex has many of the flaws that made me HATE the old pdf.

 

 

I disagree, my friend. Mech has become very popular in many armies, not only ours. Different to other codizes, however, can we build lists that don't depend on massed tanks and 'ravens, but can also be very effective(and competitive) with jump-packed armies(which will be referred to as DoA-armies or just DoA).

While I'm not a fan of Matt Ward (okay let's say I don't like his work), the credit for creating a flexible codex goes to him in my humble opinion.

If those 'competitive' players say that your list is <_< , go out and beat them in game. They are not going to say that anymore after you're done wiping the floor with them and counting their lunch money. ;)

 

 

From a fluff perspective, I mostly agree. The Flesh Tearers, however, have been a dying chapter since the Index Astartes article from early 4th edition(if not earlier), so the fluff provided is just the next step on that road if you ask me. :(

 

I just can't understand how one can really hate that model of Seth, or his unit entry. I think he is the perfect chapter master for a chapter of blood-drunk lunatics that are on the way to spend their last days in battle, smiting the foes of the Emperor, instead of getting hunted by an obscure Imperial institution(we all know you guys are watching! ). I really like the FT fluff, but that's just me.

 

 

Snorri

[1Drop]

I can't really say I agree with the author of the topic (and many of the replies).

 

These BA are surely competitive overall, but I think MW FAILED in expressing the chapter's feel in term of actual army mechanics. I also think he made a boring codex.

Let's face it, in order to make a list competitive under the current codex, you'll end up playin' an heavily mechanized countercharge list (with the usual, awful mephiston) most of the times. No thanks. This doesn't feel BA.

I can't call "BA dex" something that makes the death company what it currently is. The sang. priest system is something i dislike as well. It may be personal taste, but i still feel uneasy at spending all that points for an IC that will mostly sit inside a rinho to avoid being killed by the first idiot passing by. There's so many choices, on this dex, that simply are not worth being played. And the worst thing is that many of them are the "best" fluff-wise (DC again).

 

It may be Italy, where I live, but here BAs have became predators, duble 5 men assault sq. on razors, mephiston, stormravens and perhaps some assault termies, with a few variations (usually more ravens or more tanks, some rare dreads). Other lists or choices are simply considered not worth the points by most of the players, and from a "competitiveness" point of view, I can't say these guys are wrong.

 

This not to mention the horrible job made in terms of fluff and background. Consider I am a flesh tearers player; I feel like crying every time I read what my proud chapter has become. And i feel like crying when I see my chapter master. Both in terms of rules AND model ( yes, I am speaking of that idiot Mr. potato head, that I've swapped, but I still feel offended).

This codex lacks of flexibility and versatility, it is "plastered", if you get what i mean.

 

All in all and once dropped the whole "appearance" stuff, I go so far by saying that this dex has many of the flaws that made me HATE the old pdf.

 

 

I disagree, my friend. Mech has become very popular in many armies, not only ours. Different to other codizes, however, can we build lists that don't depend on massed tanks and 'ravens, but can also be very effective(and competitive) with jump-packed armies(which will be referred to as DoA-armies or just DoA).

While I'm not a fan of Matt Ward (okay let's say I don't like his work), the credit for creating a flexible codex goes to him in my humble opinion.

If those 'competitive' players say that your list is :lol: , go out and beat them in game. They are not going to say that anymore after you're done wiping the floor with them and counting their lunch money. ;)

 

 

From a fluff perspective, I mostly agree. The Flesh Tearers, however, have been a dying chapter since the Index Astartes article from early 4th edition(if not earlier), so the fluff provided is just the next step on that road if you ask me. :)

 

I just can't understand how one can really hate that model of Seth, or his unit entry. I think he is the perfect chapter master for a chapter of blood-drunk lunatics that are on the way to spend their last days in battle, smiting the foes of the Emperor, instead of getting hunted by an obscure Imperial institution(we all know you guys are watching! ). I really like the FT fluff, but that's just me.

 

 

Snorri

 

 

I agree with everything you have said here pretty much snori, as always you speaketh the truth.