Sergeant Markings

[Denthúl]

Hi all, just a quick one. I'm working on a Sons of Orar army at the moment and all of the artwork that I've come across has shown them with white shoulder pads and trim, whether they are of Veteran status or regular Tactical Marines. Now, the Veterans have white helmets, which is that one problem out of the way, however since the regular Marines wear red Power Armour, using a red helmet to indicate Sergeant status isn't really an option here. So I guess what I'm asking for, really, are some suggestions of what to do. I've considered giving them white helmets, but this would then indicate that they're Veterans and I was under the impression that, in Codex Chapters at least, squad Sergeants tended to be of the same company as the squad itself. Am I right in assuming that?

 

If anybody has any ideas that would fit in with the colour scheme, I would appreciate hearing them. So far, all I've thought of are gold helmets or perhaps a white strip along the top, so they're not quite of Veteran status but it does single them out in a unit as the leader. Perhaps you've done something similar with your own?

 

Many thanks.

[GhostLegion]

with the sons of orar i wouldnt recommend adjusting the colors of their armor for sergeants...I would suggest painting a laurel crown onto them, maybe green for sergeants, silver for veterans, and gold for xxx? That remains an optional marking if I recall my heraldry book...if not, well it still serves to mark them out without too much effort.

[Yourius]

What about just a red helmet with a single white stripe on it ?

[Leonaides]

How about a white helmet with a red stripe in it? Or simply the white helmet, since every sergeant is not a veteran (small v veteran). Your Veteran squads (big V as in first company) will still be distinguishable since they'll be whole squads with white helmets, and I guess their own squad number designations are unlikely to be the same as your tactical squads?

[Olis]

I wouldn't worry about giving him a white helmet but Yourius said pretty much what I was going to; slap a white stripe on his helmet. :)

[Purdy81]

All my sergeants have robes with old mk helmets and backpacks from forgeworld, painted just the same as the other marines, but with the ornate helmets and backpacks it adds really nice detail, i can imagine the robes and helmets being past to the new sergeant when one falls in battle. For me the red helmets would have just really clashed with the color scheme, I can post some photos if you like

[Denthúl]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions so far, very much appreciated. I think the white stripe idea would look quite good (assuming I can perfect the art of painting white smoothly - it's proving difficult!), so I may go with that. Probably do some tests with the Space Marine Painter on here first, though, just to check.

 

All my sergeants have robes with old mk helmets and backpacks from forgeworld, painted just the same as the other marines, but with the ornate helmets and backpacks it adds really nice detail, i can imagine the robes and helmets being past to the new sergeant when one falls in battle. For me the red helmets would have just really clashed with the color scheme, I can post some photos if you like

 

That sounds very cool, I would like to see those photos if you wouldn't mind. The idea that Sergeants would be longer-serving Marines with older, more ornate equipment, does make a lot of sense. :)

[red_starrise]

Well, in the RT days a vet had a red stripe down the center line of his helmet. A vet sarge had a red helmet so I'd say go ahead & do a white strip & paint a laurel on his helmet?

 

What I do w/ my IF is a white helmet w/ yellow laurel on vets (sternguard, vanguard, honor guard, cmd squad) for my combat squad leaders who by the old (2nd/3rd ed) codices were designated veterans I leave their helmets yellow & paint a white laurel. For sgts a red helmet, for vet sgts in regular squads I do a red helm w/ a white laurel & vet sgts in vet units a white helmet w/ a red stripe & yellow laurels.

 

Dunno if any of that helps but maybe give you some ideas?

[crazychib]

Use a helmet with a skull motif on the forehead - The 'Iron Skull' is the Codex insignia for a sergeant. You could also paint an Iron Halo on the armour, as this also the insignia of a leader.

[Purdy81]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions so far, very much appreciated. I think the white stripe idea would look quite good (assuming I can perfect the art of painting white smoothly - it's proving difficult!), so I may go with that. Probably do some tests with the Space Marine Painter on here first, though, just to check.

 

All my sergeants have robes with old mk helmets and backpacks from forgeworld, painted just the same as the other marines, but with the ornate helmets and backpacks it adds really nice detail, i can imagine the robes and helmets being past to the new sergeant when one falls in battle. For me the red helmets would have just really clashed with the color scheme, I can post some photos if you like

 

That sounds very cool, I would like to see those photos if you wouldn't mind. The idea that Sergeants would be longer-serving Marines with older, more ornate equipment, does make a lot of sense. ;)

 

 

here you go

 

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/8153/dsc00162lm.th.jpg

 

not the best painter in the world, this pic is without the back pack but you get an idea

[Excubitor]

I just have my sergeants and captains with gold chest Aquilas - every other model in the army just has silver Aquila. On veteran units my sergeant also has different equipment to mark him as such, so he also stands out in a squad (different backpacks, different weapons, etc).

[Denthúl]

here you go

 

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/8153/dsc00162lm.th.jpg

 

not the best painter in the world, this pic is without the back pack but you get an idea

 

Thanks, that looks good and is very interesting. Might have to get my hands on some Forgeworld bits and have a play around (I was already going to consider that for some Sternguard anyway, due to my hatred of metal models, though I will admit the Sternguard models do look lovely) with those. I think that my fallback plan will be the white stripe on the helmet, which I think will stand out enough without making it look like the guy is a veteran.

 

Thank you to everyone who responded, I really appreciate the advice. Hopefully I'll be able to get some pictures up eventually. Just got to get through all the priming first... ;)

[verpine]

Post pictures of your army please please please

[Denthúl]

Post pictures of your army please please please

 

Me? I certainly will as soon as it's got more than a flat red priming coat on :D

 

I see you've also gone with Sons of Orar; could I perhaps ask how you painted the white on their shoulder pads, please? Having great difficulty getting it to look smooth here. I either paint it on too thin and it's hard to get it covered, or too thick and it looks awful.

[verpine]

Post pictures of your army please please please

 

Me? I certainly will as soon as it's got more than a flat red priming coat on :devil:

 

I see you've also gone with Sons of Orar; could I perhaps ask how you painted the white on their shoulder pads, please? Having great difficulty getting it to look smooth here. I either paint it on too thin and it's hard to get it covered, or too thick and it looks awful.Y

 

Well for a couple I cheated- I airbrushed on the white. ;)

 

For the AOBR marines that wasn't an option, so I started with a coat of astronomical gray (make sure it's thinned). Then, on your pallete, do a 50/50 skull white and astronomican grey mix. Apply this, it'll take a couple coats. Then, basically keep mixing in more white until you're at pure white. Put on freehand or a tactical arrow, it covers up chunkiness if there is any. This is also how I paint chest eagles, but I just do astro gray, then skip to pure skull white, leaving astro gray showing in the recesses.

 

Also, the final step is a wash- Badab black:Liquitex flow aid about 1:3, mixed well. Applied only to recesses.

Good luck.

[Denthúl]

Thanks for that. When you thin the paints, do you just use water? What kind of ratios do you use for that? I did watch a few painting videos on YouTube and the guy said he thinned all of his paints with water in a 2:1 paint to water ratio; is this the kind of thing I should be looking to do? Normally I just take from the pot with a damp brush, which seems to be all right some times, but not always*.

 

*Previously a terrible painter, now trying to improve my skills! :huh:

[verpine]

Thanks for that. When you thin the paints, do you just use water? What kind of ratios do you use for that? I did watch a few painting videos on YouTube and the guy said he thinned all of his paints with water in a 2:1 paint to water ratio; is this the kind of thing I should be looking to do? Normally I just take from the pot with a damp brush, which seems to be all right some times, but not always*.

 

*Previously a terrible painter, now trying to improve my skills! :P

 

I thin with "flow aid water" which is a 1:20 mix of liquitex flow aid:distilled water. You can get flow aid at any craft store like micheals for 6 or 7 bucks and itll last you a long time. If you don't have a pallete, you should try getting one, they're like 99 cents. You shouldn't try and thin our paints in the pot.

 

When I thin, I put some paint on the pallete and mix in a bit of water. 2:1 paint to water seems like too much for GW paint though... I'd say 6:1 or 5:1.... It's just trial and error- too thin and it won't cover well, too thick and it'll be... Too thick. Don't worry too much though, the only way you'll figure it out is by trying it yourself, so go paint! ;)

[EPK]

In reference to the RT mention above, here is a source for those markings - http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_pbFJndlkB6o/TH9O...ace+Marines.jpg

[Denthúl]

Thanks for that. When you thin the paints, do you just use water? What kind of ratios do you use for that? I did watch a few painting videos on YouTube and the guy said he thinned all of his paints with water in a 2:1 paint to water ratio; is this the kind of thing I should be looking to do? Normally I just take from the pot with a damp brush, which seems to be all right some times, but not always*.

 

*Previously a terrible painter, now trying to improve my skills! <_<

 

I thin with "flow aid water" which is a 1:20 mix of liquitex flow aid:distilled water. You can get flow aid at any craft store like micheals for 6 or 7 bucks and itll last you a long time. If you don't have a pallete, you should try getting one, they're like 99 cents. You shouldn't try and thin our paints in the pot.

 

When I thin, I put some paint on the pallete and mix in a bit of water. 2:1 paint to water seems like too much for GW paint though... I'd say 6:1 or 5:1.... It's just trial and error- too thin and it won't cover well, too thick and it'll be... Too thick. Don't worry too much though, the only way you'll figure it out is by trying it yourself, so go paint! :P

 

Thanks for that, I'll look in to getting some Liquitex and a palette; I've got a couple of models spare that I could try thinning techniques on and plenty of free time in-between Grand Prix coverage this weekend. Thank you for the advice. :rolleyes: