Grey Hunters or Blood Claws?

[Freman Bloodglaive]

I've found the worthless unit. A squad of Wolf Guard with jump packs or bikes. They start off expensive and only get more so as you add upgrades.

[Grey Mage]

'cept in planetstrike, where small squads of deepstriking wolf gaurd with meltabombs and a couple upgrades make a good breaker unit.

[Donutzot]

You guys have it all wrong.

 

Grey hunters are great if you want an objective and its being hold by any other enemy unit. You just shoot you way to it and if that fails to kill it. you just assault and hit it with a couple of mark of the wulfen attacks and all

 

Well Bloodclaws are a different story you put them at an objective and assault everything that comes close.

 

But Skyclaws are my favorite. who says a space wolf with a jump pack isn't that dangerous hasn't met me in cc. I love those guys with a mark of the wulfen and especially with a wolf guard with jump pack in it just to have that control.

 

But unfornatly I have nothing to say about swiftclaws I haven't tried them yet.

[Jaegar Bloodfang]

I find blood claws fine, or even dare I say I it better....

 

Now before you try to find a large blunt object to knock the sense into me please hear me out.

 

The blood claws yes have WS of 3 and BS of 3 the reason i use them is that:

 

1-They relatively cheap

 

2-They can have up to a 15 man pack (lets face it they could take a decent amount of pain)

 

3-The best to last 4 attacks each on the charge

1 in the stat's,+1 for two close combat weapons and +2 on the charge (Berserk Charge Rule)

 

This gives them a hell of a punch with 60 yes that's 60 attacks on the charge

I myself run two packs of 15 for this purpose and to great affect

 

(very fun to see my opponents face when i scrabble around looking for 120 dice :D )

[Donutzot]

I find blood claws fine, or even dare I say I it better....

 

Now before you try to find a large blunt object to knock the sense into me please hear me out.

 

The blood claws yes have WS of 3 and BS of 3 the reason i use them is that:

 

1-They relatively cheap

 

2-They can have up to a 15 man pack (lets face it they could take a decent amount of pain)

 

3-The best to last 4 attacks each on the charge

1 in the stat's,+1 for two close combat weapons and +2 on the charge (Berserk Charge Rule)

 

This gives them a hell of a punch with 60 yes that's 60 attacks on the charge

I myself run two packs of 15 for this purpose and to great affect

 

(very fun to see my opponents face when i scrabble around looking for 120 dice :D )

oh dude thats just EVIL

Well anyway I see my oppenent face change when I roll my mark on my skyclaws especially when I roll a 4 or something he still is still scared of it because its 4+3 attacks wich are rending hihihihihi

[Spacefrisian]

(very fun to see my opponents face when i scrabble around looking for 120 dice :D )

 

 

Put in a Wolfpriest (chosen infantry) and just put on a bigger grin when you get to make those re-rolls.

[Grey Mage]

In what way are they relatively cheap?

 

Ive never argued against their effectiveness, its their cost that kills me.

[Jaegar Bloodfang]

450pts is still alot but still in a 1000pt match that still gives me 550pts to play with.

[Simo429]

They certainly aren't better than Grey Hunters, Grey Hunters are one of the best if not the best point for point troop choice in the game.

 

Bloodclaws have there place but if you take 2 squads of them in a competetive game at 1500 points you are going to get your arse handed to you.

[maverik_girl]

I find blood claws fine, or even dare I say I it better....

 

Now before you try to find a large blunt object to knock the sense into me please hear me out.

 

The blood claws yes have WS of 3 and BS of 3 the reason i use them is that:

 

1-They relatively cheap

 

2-They can have up to a 15 man pack (lets face it they could take a decent amount of pain)

 

3-The best to last 4 attacks each on the charge

1 in the stat's,+1 for two close combat weapons and +2 on the charge (Berserk Charge Rule)

 

This gives them a hell of a punch with 60 yes that's 60 attacks on the charge

I myself run two packs of 15 for this purpose and to great affect

 

(very fun to see my opponents face when i scrabble around looking for 120 dice :D )

 

so do you foot/run them the entire game? or do you put them in a raider? if you put them in a raider... I'd love to try and blow them up. But if I were your opponent, I'd cast Murderous Hurricane and use template weapons on your Blood Claws, while my other troops rapid fire on your Blood Claws while my high toughness pack of thunderwolf cavalry takes a kodak moment, and goes in for the charge. Haha I'm kidding of course! but if your happy with your Blood Claws, all the better! I know that in the previous codex, it was more acceptable because of the 3 power fist, but now... not so much. Question for you, on average how long does it take for you to keep the 15man Blood Claws alive in a turn/game, until the 60 attacks aren't 60 anymore? I'm curious because I may want to test out a full pack of them. But at the moment, I'm content with my Grey Hunters.

[techmarine Azuris]

I find blood claws fine, or even dare I say I it better....

 

Now before you try to find a large blunt object to knock the sense into me please hear me out.

 

The blood claws yes have WS of 3 and BS of 3 the reason i use them is that:

 

1-They relatively cheap

 

2-They can have up to a 15 man pack (lets face it they could take a decent amount of pain)

 

3-The best to last 4 attacks each on the charge

1 in the stat's,+1 for two close combat weapons and +2 on the charge (Berserk Charge Rule)

 

This gives them a hell of a punch with 60 yes that's 60 attacks on the charge

I myself run two packs of 15 for this purpose and to great affect

 

(very fun to see my opponents face when i scrabble around looking for 120 dice :tu: )

 

so do you foot/run them the entire game? or do you put them in a raider? if you put them in a raider... I'd love to try and blow them up. But if I were your opponent, I'd cast Murderous Hurricane and use template weapons on your Blood Claws, while my other troops rapid fire on your Blood Claws while my high toughness pack of thunderwolf cavalry takes a kodak moment, and goes in for the charge. Haha I'm kidding of course! but if your happy with your Blood Claws, all the better! I know that in the previous codex, it was more acceptable because of the 3 power fist, but now... not so much. Question for you, on average how long does it take for you to keep the 15man Blood Claws alive in a turn/game, until the 60 attacks aren't 60 anymore? I'm curious because I may want to test out a full pack of them. But at the moment, I'm content with my Grey Hunters.

 

couldnt you say the same for grey hunter, both T4 and 3+ save? I dont think survivabilty is an issue rlly :)

[Simo429]

couldnt you say the same for grey hunter, both T4 and 3+ save? I dont think survivabilty is an issue rlly :tu:

The issues are different, with grey hunters you will get more punch by having 3 more survivable 5 man units with wolf guard than you would have with 1 15 strong unit of blood claws and a wolf priest

 

3 squads of

 

5 grey hunters

1 melta

1 MOTW

1 Wolf Guard Combi melta and power fist

Las plas

 

costs

624 points

 

1 squad of

 

15 blood claws

power fist

2 meltas

Land raider crusader wtith extra multi melta

wolf priest

 

costs 615 points

 

So the grey hunters give you more ap2 shooting and more melta

they give you more scoring units

and with the blood claws you also lose one of your HQ slots

[d@n]

You guys have it all wrong.

 

Grey hunters are great if you want an objective and its being hold by any other enemy unit. You just shoot you way to it and if that fails to kill it. you just assault and hit it with a couple of mark of the wulfen attacks and all

 

Well Bloodclaws are a different story you put them at an objective and assault everything that comes close.

 

But Skyclaws are my favorite. who says a space wolf with a jump pack isn't that dangerous hasn't met me in cc. I love those guys with a mark of the wulfen and especially with a wolf guard with jump pack in it just to have that control.

 

But unfornatly I have nothing to say about swiftclaws I haven't tried them yet.

You cant put a wolfguard in a sky claw pack

[d@n]

Blood claws are just not worth the points.

15 blood claws with upgrades is close to the same points as a decant sized unit of thunderwolves, a drop pod unit of 10xcombi weapon power armoured wolfguard ect .If you take less then the max pack size, so you can fit them in a transport then you may aswell of taken grey hunters.

 

If you foot slog them then flamstorm cannons, vindicators, plasma cannon dev squad and all the xenos ap2-3 weapons can easily wipe them out in one turn, so your left with taking a land raider to get them into combat and if your doing that you have to ask yourself,are blood claws the best option for the land raider? well no there not.

ok yes they get loads of attacks on the charge and you can put a wolf priest with them so they hit like a grey hunter but for the the same cost you could of used termys with duel wolf claws rather then bloodclaws, with the priest you get to re roll to hit and to wound with no armour saves plus your termy armour means your more likely to survive the torrant of fire once you have destroy whatever unit you assaulted.

its not about number of attacks, if your playing that game your going to loose to ork mobs who can have double the attacks, if your not in a land raider then there going to get the charge with a waaagh with all the same stats bar the 3+ save though there a 3rd of the cost.

30 ork boyz with a power klaw nob costs less then 15 basic blood claws and get 120 attacks on the charge, playing spacemarines like orks is a bad idea.

 

The only really useful way to play blood claws is on a raider with arjac and drive it upto your oponents objective,as nothing is going to remove that. The problem it is a huge point sink and if you want an extra objective just take bjorn.

[skoll]

well they have their uses with a jump pack strapped to their back

[d@n]

well they have their uses with a jump pack strapped to their back

Even then, pretty much every other marine dex has an equivalent that does the same thing better for the same points. On top of that you dont even get the one real benefit, of taking a large pack. Take blood angels, once you have put a wolf priest and with jump pack your looking at being more expensive then Blood angels assault squads with a sang priest. Sky claws are not any good at going tank hunting even with 2 meltaguns and there average in assault. So whats the point of them?

 

Dont get me wrong i loved blood claws when i was younger, but in the currant dex there not worth it. If they were 13 points i would take or them if you could have a fist and special weapon for every 5 marines i would take them even if they had ws4 on the charge i could probably find a use for them but as it stands theres no reason to take them over grey hunters.

[skoll]

except our wolf priest is more chaplain than saguinary priest which is an apothecary ...hence the extra expense

[d@n]

except our wolf priest is more chaplain than saguinary priest which is an apothecary ...hence the extra expense

true but even then your still likely to be loosing combat even if you charge. That was my point, even with the extra attacks on the charge the lower weapon skill means your only on average going to be landing the same amount of attacks and the preferred enamy will be negated by the feel no pain, were as a kitted out thunder lord will run through that squad in a turn or 2.

[mastrchief33]

Blood claws lack the depth of unit upgrade options that the grey hunters have. More upgrade options means more versatility. More versatility means fewer opposing unit types that they cannot deal with. Not the case whatsoever with blood claws, which makes them one-dimensional and easily countered. Blood claws also lack a bolter and the base level WS/BS of most space marine infantry all for.....yep, the same base point cost. If you feel blood claws are better than grey hunters, you're evidently seeing something that I and the majority of other North American space wolf players have been missing for well over a year.

[Levitas]

While I think Grey Hunters are a better deal, I do think Blood Claws can play a part in alternate lists and experimentation (which is what you should always do with a codex). Would be nice if they were cheaper but you can still do some cool things with them.

 

Very few marine dexes can put a marine horde list together, the 15 man BC packs let us do that. 90 marines is nothing to sniff at if you max troop slots. Plus we can take 4 HQs so its relatively easy to make a few of those packs fearless by adding a wolf priest. I run this list just for fun sometimes, despite favoring my mech grey hunter list. They dont fall like ork boyz or gaunts and will still hit hard in combat.

 

Skyclaws i tried but couldnt gel with, and the swift claws didnt fair better. Its a blanket statement to say they are useless. The wolf dex does very well when you combine units so in the right build and in the right hands they can do well. We are fortunate that we do have so many really good units that slightly over shadow them.

[Blacksad]

I often field a 5 man unit of blood claws with Lukas when combatting Orcs, just to see the look on his face when I say "Death or Glory with Lukas"

 

this might not be a viable combat tactic, but it sure as hell is a great deal of fun to see an Orc Trukk with it's mob inside frozen in a stasis prison...

[d@n]

While I think Grey Hunters are a better deal, I do think Blood Claws can play a part in alternate lists and experimentation (which is what you should always do with a codex). Would be nice if they were cheaper but you can still do some cool things with them.

 

Very few marine dexes can put a marine horde list together, the 15 man BC packs let us do that. 90 marines is nothing to sniff at if you max troop slots. Plus we can take 4 HQs so its relatively easy to make a few of those packs fearless by adding a wolf priest. I run this list just for fun sometimes, despite favoring my mech grey hunter list. They dont fall like ork boyz or gaunts and will still hit hard in combat.

 

Skyclaws i tried but couldnt gel with, and the swift claws didnt fair better. Its a blanket statement to say they are useless. The wolf dex does very well when you combine units so in the right build and in the right hands they can do well. We are fortunate that we do have so many really good units that slightly over shadow them.

trust me, i have tried just about everything to make blood claws work with the new dex because i love the fluff so much but they just dont work.As i said in a previous post hord blood claws just dont work, ok you can put down 90 blood claws for a horrendous amount of points once you have put 4 wolf priests down but orks can put down 180 boyz putting out 720 attacks on the charge all fearless with the same stat line as you bar armour saves and because of ther waaagh the chances are there going to get the charge for something like double what your wolf priest are going to cost you buy themselves. 60 grey hunters will still do the same damage in the assault phase with there wolf standard and mow and cost less.

[Levitas]

While I think Grey Hunters are a better deal, I do think Blood Claws can play a part in alternate lists and experimentation (which is what you should always do with a codex). Would be nice if they were cheaper but you can still do some cool things with them.

 

Very few marine dexes can put a marine horde list together, the 15 man BC packs let us do that. 90 marines is nothing to sniff at if you max troop slots. Plus we can take 4 HQs so its relatively easy to make a few of those packs fearless by adding a wolf priest. I run this list just for fun sometimes, despite favoring my mech grey hunter list. They dont fall like ork boyz or gaunts and will still hit hard in combat.

 

Skyclaws i tried but couldnt gel with, and the swift claws didnt fair better. Its a blanket statement to say they are useless. The wolf dex does very well when you combine units so in the right build and in the right hands they can do well. We are fortunate that we do have so many really good units that slightly over shadow them.

trust me, i have tried just about everything to make blood claws work with the new dex because i love the fluff so much but they just dont work.As i said in a previous post hord blood claws just dont work, ok you can put down 90 blood claws for a horrendous amount of points once you have put 4 wolf priests down but orks can put down 180 boyz putting out 720 attacks on the charge all fearless with the same stat line as you bar armour saves and because of ther waaagh the chances are there going to get the charge for something like double what your wolf priest are going to cost you buy themselves. 60 grey hunters will still do the same damage in the assault phase with there wolf standard and mow and cost less.

 

I agree. Its not the best horde out there by any means, but then it is still a lot of marines. Not a viable tournament or competitive list in my opinion, but fun for the odd beer and pretzels game. It can get dull just running mech all the time, plus it's kind of amusing when a big pack of BCs pulls something important to bits.

 

Grey Hunters for business, Blood Claws for the party. Kind of like a mullet.. :)

[d@n]

While I think Grey Hunters are a better deal, I do think Blood Claws can play a part in alternate lists and experimentation (which is what you should always do with a codex). Would be nice if they were cheaper but you can still do some cool things with them.

 

Very few marine dexes can put a marine horde list together, the 15 man BC packs let us do that. 90 marines is nothing to sniff at if you max troop slots. Plus we can take 4 HQs so its relatively easy to make a few of those packs fearless by adding a wolf priest. I run this list just for fun sometimes, despite favoring my mech grey hunter list. They dont fall like ork boyz or gaunts and will still hit hard in combat.

 

Skyclaws i tried but couldnt gel with, and the swift claws didnt fair better. Its a blanket statement to say they are useless. The wolf dex does very well when you combine units so in the right build and in the right hands they can do well. We are fortunate that we do have so many really good units that slightly over shadow them.

trust me, i have tried just about everything to make blood claws work with the new dex because i love the fluff so much but they just dont work.As i said in a previous post hord blood claws just dont work, ok you can put down 90 blood claws for a horrendous amount of points once you have put 4 wolf priests down but orks can put down 180 boyz putting out 720 attacks on the charge all fearless with the same stat line as you bar armour saves and because of ther waaagh the chances are there going to get the charge for something like double what your wolf priest are going to cost you buy themselves. 60 grey hunters will still do the same damage in the assault phase with there wolf standard and mow and cost less.

 

I agree. Its not the best horde out there by any means, but then it is still a lot of marines. Not a viable tournament or competitive list in my opinion, but fun for the odd beer and pretzels game. It can get dull just running mech all the time, plus it's kind of amusing when a big pack of BCs pulls something important to bits.

 

Grey Hunters for business, Blood Claws for the party. Kind of like a mullet.. :(

I totally agree with you. phil kelly did a really good job with the codex but a few minor changes would make so many units much better. If you gave blood claws the option of having a fist and special weapon for every 5 members like you used to get, they would be competing for slots with grey hunters, i dont think it would not be over powered (considering what matt ward puts out) and would be a totally unique unit, imaging having 15 blood claws with 3 fists a wolfguard with a fist and a wolf priest with saga of the hunter running up behing your rhinos, they would be getting a 3+ cover save meaning people wouldnt auto choose rune priest and grey hunters. one little errate to one line in the dex would make a massive difference.

 

The problem i have is i dont want to spend money and put hours into a unit just for a change.Yes blood claws are fun for a change but i dont want to invest time and money in a unit thats rubbish.

[Donutzot]

well they have their uses with a jump pack strapped to their back

Even then, pretty much every other marine dex has an equivalent that does the same thing better for the same points. On top of that you dont even get the one real benefit, of taking a large pack. Take blood angels, once you have put a wolf priest and with jump pack your looking at being more expensive then Blood angels assault squads with a sang priest. Sky claws are not any good at going tank hunting even with 2 meltaguns and there average in assault. So whats the point of them?

 

Dont get me wrong i loved blood claws when i was younger, but in the currant dex there not worth it. If they were 13 points i would take or them if you could have a fist and special weapon for every 5 marines i would take them even if they had ws4 on the charge i could probably find a use for them but as it stands theres no reason to take them over grey hunters.

Skyclaws are not made to hunt tanks. Use them to do flank control and in the back of his line the juicy heavy weapon teams