Knowledge is Power

[Wulf Vengis]

Brothers and sisters I have decide to expand my knowledge of battlefield tactics in a better attempt to slay my foes on the table. I unfortunately dont know where to look or even what Im looking for. I know some of you will say Tsun Zu but I feel that a lot of his teachings are based around common sense and what isnt is aimed at warfare on a larger then the simple firefights of 40k. Though perhaps for Apocalypse his teachings would fit more precisely. Is there any authors or books I should look for that may enlighten me in my endeavours?

[MaveriK]

I personally like the book "practice makes perfect" followed up by the second book called "reading various battle reports" by the author know only as anonymous :)

[Simo429]

Ignore Tsun Zu read the codices of every race, read battle reports and play the game against as many opponents as possible. Constantly evaluate what you do and evaluate your list.

[Growler67]

You could have a read HERE and don't forget to pray to the Dice Gods.

[Sigmund Hammerhand]

There's not much point reading military tactics from the real world because they're based a lot on deception (among other things) and on the assumption that battles are a great deal larger than the engagements we play in 40k, and in the real world the idea is to win at all chances (not necessarily at all costs, though) so that methods that are seen as dishonourable are fair game because in real warfare you don't care whether your enemy is having fun. The more big guns you have the better. And engagements were rarely fair (unlike the matchups in 40k) so that a lot of the considerations of 40k would go right out the window in the real world. There's also little room for improvising, for example and there's dice. All in all, the real world isn't the best source of tactics for 40k.

Just play, play and then play some more. Think about your army and what went wrong and how you can do better.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Brothers and sisters I have decide to expand my knowledge of battlefield tactics in a better attempt to slay my foes on the table. I unfortunately dont know where to look or even what Im looking for. I know some of you will say Tsun Zu but I feel that a lot of his teachings are based around common sense and what isnt is aimed at warfare on a larger then the simple firefights of 40k. Though perhaps for Apocalypse his teachings would fit more precisely. Is there any authors or books I should look for that may enlighten me in my endeavours?

 

If you want to play Warhammer 40K better, these are two blogs that have helped improve my thinking, from list building, to deployment, etc.

 

Link: 3++ is the new black

: Yes The Truth Hurts

 

3++ is a little more people friendly, but YTTH also has good insights - I guess it is more like neat whisky....

 

 

Ignore Tsun Zu read the codices of every race, read battle reports and play the game against as many opponents as possible. Constantly evaluate what you do and evaluate your list.

 

A+

 

There's not much point reading military tactics from the real world because they're based a lot on deception (among other things) and on the assumption that battles are a great deal larger than the engagements we play in 40k, and in the real world the idea is to win at all chances (not necessarily at all costs, though) so that methods that are seen as dishonourable are fair game because in real warfare you don't care whether your enemy is having fun. The more big guns you have the better. And engagements were rarely fair (unlike the matchups in 40k) so that a lot of the considerations of 40k would go right out the window in the real world. There's also little room for improvising, for example and there's dice. All in all, the real world isn't the best source of tactics for 40k.

Just play, play and then play some more. Think about your army and what went wrong and how you can do better.

 

A+

[Gen. Confusion]

Read the articles in the librarium. There is some good stuff in there. Make sure to read all of the killhammer articles. I have the core article in my sig. This would be a good place to start.

[Grimtooth]

Google the following:

 

Refused flank

 

Castling

 

And add the word:

 

Warhammer 40k to each search.

 

That is about the extent of the tactics in 40K. Small unit tactis of the real world do not translate to the table top as has been mentioned.

[Adarul Greystalker]

I don't agree with the assertion that real-world tactical wisdom can't be applied to war games. It's certainly true that a lot of discrete tactical advice deals with deception, psychology, logistics, or other factors that aren't replicated well in 40k, but there are still plenty of lessons that can be gleaned from comprehensive works on tactics and strategy.

 

Just a few examples off the top of my head:

 

"The organization of the many is essentially like the organization of the few" - Sun Tzu. This quote and the elaboration on it illustrates how/why you should approach organizing your units into tactical groups or relationships during list building and planning.

 

"Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake." - Napoleon Bonaparte. A very interesting statement about timing with complicated implications.

 

You might consider things like this common sense, but it's very important to make sure your fundamental principles are sound and to both reinforce them from time to time and explore their implications in a variety of situations. In this way, some real-world tactical advice can be very helpful in war games, so long as you understand that much of it is not.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I don't agree with the assertion that real-world tactical wisdom can't be applied to war games. It's certainly true that a lot of discrete tactical advice deals with deception, psychology, logistics, or other factors that aren't replicated well in 40k, but there are still plenty of lessons that can be gleaned from comprehensive works on tactics and strategy.

 

Just a few examples off the top of my head:

 

"The organization of the many is essentially like the organization of the few" - Sun Tzu. This quote and the elaboration on it illustrates how/why you should approach organizing your units into tactical groups or relationships during list building and planning.

 

"Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake." - Napoleon Bonaparte. A very interesting statement about timing with complicated implications.

 

You might consider things like this common sense, but it's very important to make sure your fundamental principles are sound and to both reinforce them from time to time and explore their implications in a variety of situations. In this way, some real-world tactical advice can be very helpful in war games, so long as you understand that much of it is not.

 

"the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"

 

"but sometimes the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many"

 

"a stitch in time saves nine"

 

"a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush"

 

Not to be too controversial, but my quotes can be applied to 40K just as well as 'proper' military ones and be just as insightful. That is what people are saying when they say 'militaryisms' don't really hold much weight, because they mostly carry nothing more than mundane sayings in terms of wisdom for table top gaming.

Yes, military wisdom can be applied to 40K but so can sewing, hunting or Vulcan philosophy. Which undoes what people are really going for in trying to get military wisdom to work for them. They are hoping they can apply some hidden knowledge to the game and therefore be successful and/or profound, but military wisdom does not have exclusive domain on that, therefore undoing the hope that it is the key to success and/or profoundness.

[Adarul Greystalker]

Respectfully, the Art of War is much more than a collection of vague one-liners that can be applied to any number of situations. By listing a few quotes perhaps I undid my own argument, but I was simply trying to list some examples that could be recorded here without going into lengthy passages, not suggesting that you should just sift through pages of old treatises for handy quotations such as those and discard everything else.

 

If the point is that reading blogs about 40k gives you much more digestible and applicable knowledge of wargame tactics than real-world military treatises, then I concede the point. Indeed I never argued counter to it. I simply object to the idea that Sun Tzu is useless to the thinking wargamer. The Art of War is a brilliant and widely applicable text, and that fact is undiminished by the supposed relevance to wargaming of any number of varied quotes and witticisms.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Respectfully, the Art of War is much more than a collection of vague one-liners that can be applied to any number of situations. By listing a few quotes perhaps I undid my own argument, but I was simply trying to list some examples that could be recorded here without going into lengthy passages, not suggesting that you should just sift through pages of old treatises for handy quotations such as those and discard everything else.

 

If the point is that reading blogs about 40k gives you much more digestible and applicable knowledge of wargame tactics than real-world military treatises, then I concede the point. Indeed I never argued counter to it. I simply object to the idea that Sun Tzu is useless to the thinking wargamer. The Art of War is a brilliant and widely applicable text, and that fact is undiminished by the supposed relevance to wargaming of any number of varied quotes and witticisms.

 

Yeah, I wasn't trying to be too cheeky. But a little cheeky, nevertheless :)

 

People are probably too excited for one extreme or the other, where the balance, as you know, is somewhere in between. ^_^

 

Live long and prosper :)

[Hear da Lamentation]

Personally I found Valerian's guide to making an army to be really, really excellent. It is all a bit bewildering when you start (especially with the number of excellent unit choices the wolves have) - so you need some initial guildance.

 

I believe you can find it on his blog, which is linked to any of his posts.

 

H.D.L.

[Adarul Greystalker]

In addition to the excellent blogs that have already been mentioned, http://space-wolves-grey.blogspot.com/ is also quite good. It focuses more on tournament preparation and battle reports than theorcrafting and tactical philosophy, but it's good to get some practical knowledge from others once in a while, especially if you're not able to get games in every week like me. Make sure you don't skip the comments. Unlike with some sites, that blog usually has some useful commentary in the comments sections.

[Valerian]

Personally I found Valerian's guide to making an army to be really, really excellent. It is all a bit bewildering when you start (especially with the number of excellent unit choices the wolves have) - so you need some initial guildance.

 

I believe you can find it on his blog, which is linked to any of his posts.

 

H.D.L.

 

Thanks HDL, I remember the discussions that we had via PM when you were just getting started, good times! Yes, the link to my Guide is down below in my signature block; hopefully others will find it helpful, too.

 

I've found over my 22 years of playing 40K, combined with 20 years of military service, is that some real-world points apply, while others do not. Like any model or simulation, you will never perfectly replicate combat; especially when the games designer isn't even trying that hard, as is the case with GW. The hard part is simply trying to extract the parts that fit from those that do not, and try to leverage the applicable bits into your tabletop games.

 

In my opinion, doing a METT-T analysis fits, you just have to adjust for the unique characteristics of the game, but really this is no different than adjustments that you would make for any operating environment, or combat simulation.

 

Many of the Principles of War fit, you just have to translate them to the game (for example Mass of effects at the decisive point, while using Economy of Force toward secondary efforts).

 

I've also found the use of the Task/Purpose mission planning for my units to be quite helpful in thinking about how to use my forces toward achieving my objective for each battle/game.

 

I'd be more than happy to expound upon any of these points, if any are interested.

 

Best of luck!

 

V

[Wulf Vengis]

Thank you all for the great answers, and suggestions. It looks like Ive got a bit of reading ahead of me now and I think Ill start with Killhammers work.

 

Further thoughts pending...

[Grimtooth]

Art of War is not so much a tactics playbook but more of a manual on thinking tactically. Still on the Marine Corps list of required reading IIRC.

 

Just a little off topic, Starship Troopers was on that list as well. Not the craptastic movie, but the original novel that delved into militarism as a valid government.

[wolf363839]

Try reading some of the classics for their own sake. If you enjoy them, you will learn from them. But remember one thing about reading military history, tactics, and doctrine: They will teach you how to think, not what to think, and that is the most valuable thing.

 

Valerian, where did you serve old man? METT-T brings back fond memories of the "real" world. Was a Captain of grunts in a former life.

[Valerian]

Just a little off topic, Starship Troopers was on that list as well. Not the craptastic movie, but the original novel that delved into militarism as a valid government.

 

Starship Troopers is still highly recommended, and on many reading lists, but it is primarily because of how well Heinlein explores small unit leadership and timeless themes of what training and combat are like. The characters in the book lived in a democratic society, not really a militaristic government, but the key difference was that only those that had served in the military had franchise. The premise was that only those who had themselves sacrificed for, and served their fellow man had earned the right to vote.

 

V

[Valerian]

Valerian, where did you serve old man? METT-T brings back fond memories of the "real" world. Was a Captain of grunts in a former life.

 

Ah, excellent! I was a tanker and cavalryman earlier in my career, but I've been doing other work in the Army for several years now.

 

Best regards,

 

V

[Grimtooth]

It was only democratic in the loosest sense in that only those who served were allowed to vote. The sheep went about their lives while the sheepdogs controlled everything.

 

One thing I liked about that book was the reference to so many former military heroes which 40k has sometimes referenced in their fluff. Homage to those before.