Brotherhood Banner + Brotherhood Champion

[Chengar Qordath]

Now, from everything I've heard, the Brotherhood Banner's extra attack goes to attached ICs as well as the unit itself. so that raises the question; what happens when you attach a Brotherhood Champion to a Termie/Paladin squad with a banner? Rapier Strike would be fairly simple (just goes to d3+1, or +2 if you charged), but Sword Storm and Blade Shield are a bit more complicated. Would you still get an extra attack, or does the banner just do nothing if you use those stances? I would lean towards saying the banner has no effect on the other two stances (esp. Blade Shield, since it specifically bars making any attack), but I'm not certain.

[Chairman_woo]

I think you are atleast partially correct; the other two rules make no provision for bonus attacks (not even for chargeing), and blade shield even goes so far as to stop you attacking in the 1st place.

 

So yes +1 only for rapier strike at best, and to be honest it seems like you dont get a bonus attack then either for the same reasons as the others i.e. the rule appears to leave no ambiguity for gaining extra attacks, only 1+ for the charge specificaly mentioned. Technicaly you could say he does gain the bonus attack, but he can never actually use it as he never attacks normaly.

[Something Wycked]

I think you have it right, Chengar. +1 for Rapier, and no attacks allowed for Blade Shield. Sword Storm is the only maybe, but how would the extra attack be implemented?

 

The Banner is very clear that it is only +1 attack, so it cannot be interpreted to be +1 attack on every model in BTB. So where do you put the extra attack? Randomly pick a model in BTB? I would argue that you can't simply roll an extra attack on the unit he's in BTB while using the Sword Storm stance due to how specific the Sword Storm rules are- his attacks get directed, precisely one each, on the models he's in BTB with.

 

So again, I think you have it right. +1 in Rapier Strike, no effect in the other stances.

[Chairman_woo]

The Banner is very clear that it is only +1 attack, so it cannot be interpreted to be +1 attack on every model in BTB. So where do you put the extra attack? Randomly pick a model in BTB? I would argue that you can't simply roll an extra attack on the unit he's in BTB while using the Sword Storm stance due to how specific the Sword Storm rules are- his attacks get directed, precisely one each, on the models he's in BTB with.

 

The simple answer is you dont get a bonus attack because you are making a single attack against every model in base to base. No bonus for charge, no bonus for banner. just 1 per guy you are touching. The rule is pretty unambiguous here, you are not making normal attacks so the normal rules do not apply.

 

 

So again, I think you have it right. +1 in Rapier Strike, no effect in the other stances.

 

I have to question this for the same reason as above. You are not making a normal attack and the rapier rule only specifies the bonus attack from a charge.

 

Closed (permissive) rulesystem = no rule, no effect.

 

Edit: schpelling

[Something Wycked]

Funny that you agree with the first point I was making but didn't catch that we agree :D

 

The second point I'll concede, for now, because I don't have my book with me at work to check the specific language on Rapier Strike, but iirc it allows for bonus attacks and uses the charging bonus as an example, so the Brotherhood Banner should convey +1 attack in Rapier Strike "mode" only.

[DeathKorpsman]

Rapier Strike reads: "...D3 attacks this turn (D3+1 if he charged)." (pg. 26 C:GK) Seems fairly specific about the number of attacks you get and the charging doesn't seem to be an example. My take on it anyway. The other two abilities seem like definite no's though.

[Something Wycked]

Yep, would seem RAW doesn't support the Brotherhood Banner affecting the Brotherhood Champion at all; there's no language for bonus attacks, only a simple provision for allowing one on the charge.