When we eventually get a new codex

[Hugebill]

Plus, what would be more terrifying than a Termi roasting off your face right as he charges in and cuts down your squad... and then his squad gets to kick you in the gonads too.

Well, I think most people would never use the flamer because they would fear that the ennemy allocates on models in charge range all the time... (That the reason I have to get 0 flamer on my termies, its rare enough I get the charge!)

 

That said, yes a built in weapon would be nice, a wrist mounted twin link plasma pistol would be nice ^^

[Interrogator Stobz]

That said, yes a built in weapon would be nice, a wrist mounted twin link plasma pistol would be nice ^^

 

Now you're thinking, Belial with relic blade/Sword of Silence, Storm Shield and wrist mounted TL Plasma Pistol. Nice balance, not too OP, cost him right and I'm there.

[Bryan Blaire]

So, make Belial like Huron of the Astral Claws/Vulcan He'Stan then, but in TDA. And better. Not so cool an idea methinks.

 

Well, I don't know what Huron's rules look like, only that he has a single lightning claw and a heavy flamer. However, He'stan is already 2+/3++, carries a master-crafted relic blade (so he hits at Strength 6 on Initiative 5 all the time and gets to re-roll one failed hit), and the Assault 1 Heavy Flamer, all the while upgrading about half of the potential special and heavy weapons in the army, I didn't think a 2+/3++, powerfist/thunderhammer that only hits on Initiative on a single round (and only if you charge the opponent - yes, I agree this could be over the top but I usually only get to charge with Termi units twice, maybe 3 times a game - so I think it would have to be play-tested), and a heavy flamer was all that over-powering, considering that the Relentless from the Terminator armor is absolutely useless for this set up and they can't pursue falling back CC opponents or otherwise Sweeping Advance, as He'stan (and his unit) could.

How is this horribly over the top (especially if priced right)?

 

I agree that making Terminators into Troops is powerful, and so he might need to cost as much as Dante or so.

 

Well, I think most people would never use the flamer because they would fear that the ennemy allocates on models in charge range all the time... (That the reason I have to get 0 flamer on my termies, its rare enough I get the charge!)

 

That said, yes a built in weapon would be nice, a wrist mounted twin link plasma pistol would be nice ^^

 

Now you're thinking, Belial with relic blade/Sword of Silence, Storm Shield and wrist mounted TL Plasma Pistol. Nice balance, not too OP, cost him right and I'm there.

 

Good call, Hugebill, but wouldn't the wound allocation be an issue for any weapon (or unit), such as the TL Plas Pistol or even an Assault Cannon? I agree it takes a bit of doing to line up my Terminators for a charge as well.

 

I like the TL Plasma Pistol idea as well.

[Interrogator Stobz]

BB, While I agree with you wholeheartedly about buffing Belial up to the current level of specials, and that as FW has a great model in the frorm of Huron. I don't think a heavy flamer is what big B needs.

The fluff aside, a PP gives the ability to put a wound on a MC or open the rear of a transport, when fired on a squad prior to charging the PP will knock off one enemy and this will seldome change the charge distance required whereas a HF could easily remove the whole frontage to cause a charge failure.

Not to mention it is seldom a good idea to win CC in the charge round and to be open to enemy shooting, counter charge etc in his turn.

 

OT, I'd ike to see frag and krak grenades on DW too, good enough for GKTs good enough for us.

 

BTW; Your noting of the split weapon arms on the GKT sprue is awesome too, we needs it.

 

LS

[shabbadoo]

So, make Belial like Huron of the Astral Claws/Vulcan He'Stan then, but in TDA. And better. Not so cool an idea methinks.

 

Well, I don't know what Huron's rules look like, only that he has a single lightning claw and a heavy flamer. However, He'stan is already 2+/3++, carries a master-crafted relic blade (so he hits at Strength 6 on Initiative 5 all the time and gets to re-roll one failed hit), and the Assault 1 Heavy Flamer, all the while upgrading about half of the potential special and heavy weapons in the army, I didn't think a 2+/3++, powerfist/thunderhammer that only hits on Initiative on a single round (and only if you charge the opponent - yes, I agree this could be over the top but I usually only get to charge with Termi units twice, maybe 3 times a game - so I think it would have to be play-tested), and a heavy flamer was all that over-powering, considering that the Relentless from the Terminator armor is absolutely useless for this set up and they can't pursue falling back CC opponents or otherwise Sweeping Advance, as He'stan (and his unit) could.

How is this horribly over the top (especially if priced right)?

The main thing that irks me about the idea is not that it is over the top(it really isn't), but that it would be the third time that this configuration is basically being used. Hmmm. How can we make Belial completely boring? Let's give him a facsimile of the wargear that two other characters have. Heavy flamers- the new belly button. The rest of it irks me as it basically puts Belial on par with a Primarch. A thunder hammer striking at Initiative? Seriously? Some sort of freakishly big and strong marine could perhaps do that, like Ferrus Mannus or Vulkan, but Belial? Gimme a break. Belial is fast and agile, not some giant sluggo monstrosity.

 

Here is what I see as being the main problem with the current Belial. The Sword of Silence is supposed to be badarse, and it is. It is a Chapter relic of inestimable value. It is a weapon so representative of the Chapter's heritage that anyone that is so highly honored as to actually be allowed to bear it into battle would probably not be a total douche and set it aside in favor of wielding a weapon that is not literally a badge of their office. Yes, that's a pretty bad picture there. Basically, the Sword of Silence is seen to be the SUCK weapon option for Belial. How screwed up is that? Rather than just turn Belial into a pocket battleship by up-gunning him and giving him Dreadnought+ attacks as has been Michael Bayishly suggested, how about we actually look at what made Belial what he is and play to that instead.

 

Belial's reflexes are apparently beyond that of even other marines of his caliber, such that enemies never used to get a bonus attack for charging him. Not only that but his Initiative value was comparatively 1 higher than that of a standard captain. He slew Furion, a Chaos Lord of Khorne, and commanding the 3rd Company put down same Chaos Lord's Black Crusade(just a nice bit of fluff not linked to any wargear/ability). Belial hates Orks, and Ghazghkull himself hates Belial almost as much as he does Commissar Yarrick. Considering how much Ghazghkull hates Yarrick, that is saying something. Back in the day(i.e 2E), Belial had a displacer field(3++ save & 100% safe teleport d6" effect; very rare tech). It wasn't a wargear card for him like it was for others, but standard kit. Belial simply has some great back story, much of which translates to wargear, but also to special rules. Now Belial heads up the 1st Company and so he is wearing TDA like the rest of his boys. As Belial now bears the Sword of Silence, his old relic power sword has likely been passed on to another champion of the Chapter, or returned to the Chapter Armory, awaiting the day when another proves worthy of the honor of wielding it.

 

The sword of silence(suitably buffed up just a bit) would be a pretty good close combat weapon, and a stormbolter with special ammo would be a good companion piece. Belial doesn't need a heavy weapon, let alone one that mimics that of two other special characters. Belial can be made more of a badarse through special rules rather than through wargear, though his wargear could be a bit more special than it currently is too(it isn't really special at all currently, nor is Belial). I would also drop the options for lightning claws and TH & SS. Yes, I've made the bits for them too, but it is pretty d that people would take them over his signature weapon(it's just WRONG I tell you! :tu:). It should be all about his badge of office- the Sword of Silence- and his inherent special abilities, not added special weapon effects. There is already much to draw from. Too bad it wasn't the emphasized at all in C: DA 4E. Epic fail in my opinion.

 

I just realized that this is all off topic though, so I'll drop it(here at least). Terminator models would be great, and arms separated at the wrist, such that about twice as many weapon options could be included, would be great.

[Brother Moridius]

Thanks for the background on Belial shabbadoo, didnt know that much about him. I think in terms of wargear for our 1st company master it would be cool to see the Sword of Silence upgraded to S6 so its actually useful and then give him a storm shield for that knightly look. Maybe even a built in storm bolter in there for a combat shield on crack sorta feel.

 

For the new kits i think all we are really missing from the current 4th ed Dex is a box of plastic termis. For when the next codex comes out I'm sure GW will come out with some other cool things that we could get. A redo of all our special characters is required for sure, they are just too little and cute compared to the rest of the range (though they still look awesome). I think both the Ravenwing and veterans boxes just need mild tweaks as I personally really like how many spare parts you get in of them, makes converting my boys in green to feel more like the DAs in the artwork a lot easier.

[lithior]

As much as I agree with everything Shabbadoo just said I will be sooo hacked off if they restricted his weapon options after recently spending 40+ quid on a new Belial conversion with all weapon options magnatised ^_^.

 

I'd love to see a Mortis Dread kit for us, it wouldn't even require much effort on GW's part either, just add another couple of arm options to the current kit and I'd be chuffed, if not I at least want it to be included in the codex so we have the option to convert/forgeworld one.

 

Also, have we been given any inclination as to roughly when a new 'dex is likely? Or is all this just purely wishful thinking?

 

Lithior

[Phaeton]

Hmm, one man which I believe to said that codex order will be like Necrons - BT/Systers - Eldar - BT/Systers/DA - BT/Systers/DA/Tau - 6 ed

So, I think we can expect on summer 12 - winter 12/13

[ilnar]

Land speeders you can upgrade!

I want my twin multimelta speeders!

Decently priced bikes, fearless is not worth that many points!

A decent command squad, able to take bikes and storm shields ect!

He'll, if ward writes the codex, a jet bike command squad :D

NO FLIPPING LIONS!

Twin linked plasma cannon razorbacks, Just coz!

Mortis dread.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Twin linked plasma cannon razorbacks, Just coz!

 

And PotMS so we can move 12" and shoot it like the BA, stupid fast vehicle rule.

 

I recon they should put Mortis Dread weapons on our robed termie sprues, GW are you listening? probably not but plrease do

 

LS

[lithior]

That's a damn fine idea Stobz.

[shabbadoo]

No it isn't. Give us a Terminator specific kit AND a Mortis specific kit, not some half-arsed sprue set like the DA Veterans(Veterans with no Veterans weapon options = very much NOT a brilliant kit), or the vehicle sprue which is also a half measure. The Terminator sprue should have Terminator bits on it, and nothing else. I would very much like to see:

 

GW: "Check out the new range of models for the Dark Angels. As you will notice, unlike before there are no half-arsed, half-measure kits in this release at all! Feel free to honor a brief period of subdued celebration before returning to the usual brooding." :P

[Interrogator Stobz]

No it isn't. Give us a Terminator specific skit AND a Mortis specific kit, not some half-arsed sprue set like the DA Veterans(Veterans with no Veterans weapon options = very much NOT a brilliant kit), or the vehicle sprue which is also a half measure. The Terminator sprue should have Terminator bits on it, and nothing else. I would very much like to see:

 

GW: "Check out the new range of models for the Dark Angels. As you will notice, unlike before there are no half-arsed, half-measure kits in this release at all! Feel free to honor a brief period of subdued celebration before returning to the usual brooding." :P

 

Shabbadoo,

Whilst I am with you in sentiment...

It's only half arsed because they (GW) have yet to supply all the model options.

The kits are already mixed, GW will not change that anytime soon. The vet box will give you a special weapons sprue, bite the bullet and buy the whole thing, it's cheaper now than two of the separate sprues.

If we can get the parts we need in a couple of kits or an all in one kit I will be happy.

GW is putting tons of options in each box nowadays, they seen to think we are happy to pay more for redundant plastic, at least my idea would be in line with their current design style and get us models sooner rather than later.

We can, and will continue to flog off unwanted bits on the various online stores anyway. This is , IMO one of the reasons GW is losing money on the second hand market but that is another issue for them to sort out.

 

LS

[Xyon]

So I was thinking. Other than model-wise, rules-wise I'd like to see:

Belial with set gear.

Grand masters with better options for the pts.

Masters's with access to bikes, jump packs, and TDA. I also think master's should have access to assault cannon/cyclone if in TDA. Bike-mounted twin linked plasma or melta, or flamers if on a bike, or perhaps a bike-mounted heavy weapon. Basically these guys should be the special customizable guys to add flavor to your force, where as the special leaders sammy and belial have their legendary equipment, possibly the grand master's too should have fairly limited but great gear.

 

Belial, Master's, Sammael, Librarians, and Interrogator-Chaplains all having the rule to allow Terminators or Bikes as troops, so that we still have cheap HQ options to lead our deathwing or ravenwing or doublewing forces.

 

Belial and Sammael, in addition to making Termi's and Bike's troops, also have some special rule which they could give to (1 unit, d3 units, d6 units, or all units, depending on what the convention is, I'd prefer it being all units, similar to a chapter tactics sort of thing, but GK HQ's with grand strategy have d3 and the rule is optional each game, so there could be some good thing's to add without replacing any other rule) of terminator's or bikes, to help keep them distinct from the cheap master's who can also make them troops, and thus worth the extra pts if you wish to invest in them.

 

Maybe Grand Master's have some special rule they can add to Tac squads, assault squads, or devistator squads depending on some factor.

 

So we'd have an HQ structure like this:

Azreal at the top

Belial, Sammael, and Grand Masters as company leaders

Masters, Interrogator-Chaplains, and Master Librarians as being capable of leading forces from their respective company's (as indicated by making thing's troops), But not as good as the leaders, as indicated by the lack of adding a special rule.

 

I'd also like to see some kind of lower tier librarian and chaplain as a limited # available as upgrades to units, with options to go with those units, like having TDA, Bikes, Jump packs available as upgrades, but not really adding anything useful on an army-wide scale, but perhaps having a benefit to their unit, like how chaplains have litanies of hate.