Jaws Shooting Question

[Stormbrow II]

A chance for a shameless plug? I'll take it. I put up an article on my blog about it a few months ago and I have had to wheel it out in a few places when this question rears its head. Here you go.

 

For the record it can be cast into combat but only if the initial target is *not* in combat; further, it does not affect Walkers as they are vehicles. And Jaws doesn't affect vehicles.

 

Hopefully the post helps.

[DV8]

There was a lot of discussion about this exact issue/problem between when Codex: Space Wolves and the FAQ was released.

 

Space Wolves Codex, p. 37

The Rune Priest implores the spirit of the world upon which he walks to open its rock-fanged maw, and a chasm cracks open under the feet of his enemies, sending them tumbling to their deaths.

 

As a psychic shooting attack, the Rune Priest may trace a straight line along the board, starting from the Rune Priest and ending 24" away. This line may pass through terrain. ... models touched by this line must take an Initiative test.

 

Indeed, Stormbrow II's blog-link covers most of the questions, but one it doesn't answer is the issue of elevation. That is, does Jaws of the World Wolf affect models on a level that is above ground level.

 

Per the relevant quote above (emphasis mine), we can establish that (and this is pretty much verbatim quotations of my argument(s) from 4 months ago):

 

1. A line has only length, no height or width (both of which would make it a plane and not a line).
   
2. Jaws states that the line drawn must be straight.
   
3. Jaws states that the line must be drawn along the table.
   
4. Jaws states only models touched by the line (Assuming they fall under specifically mentioned categories of models) are affected.
   

 

Until GW comes out with an errata or an FAQ that rewrites Jaws to allow it to affect models above the ground level, you cannot, by RAW, attempt to draw a line diagonally to hit elevated models (breaks rule three), or attempt to have the line run along the table and shoot up along walls/terrain pieces to hit elevated models (breaks rule two). You cannot also draw a straight line on the table and argue that anything above the line (including elevated models) are affected (breaks rule four), as they are not, in point of fact, actually touched by the line.

 

Think of the table as "levels".

 

Second Floor / Tier 3

------------------------

First Floor / Tier 2

------------------------

Ground Level / Tier 1

 

Anything that falls along Tier 1 is considered Ground Level and to me, what would qualify as "along the board". Anything above that (First Floor / Tier 2 and beyond) you would be in some form of elevated terrain enough to qualify as being an entire level above (things like Ruins or Buildings). Hills and valleys, regardless of height and depth, are an abstraction to represent the natural contours of the land and I merely assumed no one would think me banal enough to consider a hill as an entirely separate entity from the actual table (which are both supposed to represent one and the same - the natural ground - as opposed to buildings being man-made terrain elements).

 

And in that regard, I would also argue that a Rune Priest who is NOT on ground level cannot fire Jaws of the World Wolf (as the line must originate touching the Rune Priest, and run along the ground). I would argue a Rune Priest who is not on Ground Level (that is, Tier 2 and/or beyond) could not actually by RAW be able to draw the line for Jaws without violating that requirement (that is, the line must be drawn along the board).

 

Original thread.

 

 

DV8

[Prot]

Wow what a mess..... It would have been nice to have a 'final' answer on that one. I half agree with what DV8 is saying.... but really arguing it is completely pointless.

 

Personally I do understand the idea of 'if you're not on the ground, you can't be targeted by something that allegedly comes out of the ground.' BUT, I really can't make any sense of why the Rune Priest can't be on higher ground targeting those beneath him... But again, there is no official answer to that one.... and probably 3 pages of debate at best left in this one. :lol:

[Stormbrow II]

That is, does Jaws of the World Wolf affect models on a level that is above ground level.

I think I did mention it actually. Hang on:

 

How about Jaws from one floor up?

 

You can't do that. Have a look at the Jaws power in C:SW. You draw a line along the ground which I take to mean board level so you can't target units a level above you or a level below you if your Priest is one floor up

Score. I covered my ass there.

 

I used to play it as any floor but now confine it to ground level. You can't have everything I suppose. Thanks for reading the blog by the way. :D

[Prot]

That is, does Jaws of the World Wolf affect models on a level that is above ground level.

I think I did mention it actually. Hang on:

 

How about Jaws from one floor up?

 

You can't do that. Have a look at the Jaws power in C:SW. You draw a line along the ground which I take to mean board level so you can't target units a level above you or a level below you if your Priest is one floor up

Score. I covered my ass there.

 

I used to play it as any floor but now confine it to ground level. You can't have everything I suppose. Thanks for reading the blog by the way. :D

 

How do you define ground? If you are standing on a hill, is that ground for you? If the opponent is on a hill, is he on the ground ? Or in your opinion is the table which terrain is placed on the ground?

 

I am thinking of a tournament I played last weekend and I suppose depending on the interpretation of 'ground', I may not have been able to use Jaws at all on some tables. One table I did play on was nearly 80-ish percent snow hills.... with only think breaks between the hills to physically place your model on the table/ground.

 

Another table was a hill covered jungle where over half the table sloped up on both sides into gradual hills placed on the table. I mean that is the ground level since I can go no lower, but technically again, this is not the table top....

 

++edit++

I just realized that I've used it from within a rhino.

 

Also, I have used it on a hill, which to me is the ground. However, I don't use it on the second floor of a ruin, or building.... and I can't recall if I used it from a bunker (remember those forgeworld bunkers? I still see those a lot.)

[DV8]

Well I think the problem lies in not necessarily the interpretation of what qualifies as the "ground", but more-so how readily players can accept the abstraction that certain scenery pieces are meant to represent the natural contours of the land (for example, hills, rolls in the ground, etc.), while others are terrain representing constructed structures (buildings/ruins, bunkers, etc.)

 

By the same logic that one might argue that a hill doesn't qualify as "the ground" and thus models on it cannot be targeted/affected by Jaws, one could also argue that any terrain feature on a scenic base would also not qualify as "the ground", even if said base is only 1/2 cm high!

 

In fact, one could so far as to argue that because the line must be in contact with the ground from beginning to end, while remaining perfectly straight, that any contour or bump or imperfection of the table surface that would render it not completely 100% flat would essentially prevent Jaws from ever being cast! Which is really just absurd.

 

So there needs to be an abstract differentiation between stuff that is still meant to represent the "ground", even if it elevates models slightly above the table surface (terrain bases, hills, etc.) and because this is a very grey area, is up to the players to determine what does or doesn't qualify for elevating models.

 

Keep in mind that this kind of abstraction also applies to any Blast or Template weapons (especially when being placed upon units that have models both on and off a hill (potentially resulting in two different elevations)).

 

That is, does Jaws of the World Wolf affect models on a level that is above ground level.

I think I did mention it actually. Hang on:

 

How about Jaws from one floor up?

 

You can't do that. Have a look at the Jaws power in C:SW. You draw a line along the ground which I take to mean board level so you can't target units a level above you or a level below you if your Priest is one floor up

Score. I covered my ass there.

 

I used to play it as any floor but now confine it to ground level. You can't have everything I suppose. Thanks for reading the blog by the way. :D

 

Actually by RAW a Rune Priest who is elevated above ground level cannot cast Jaws either (as the line has to originate from and be in contact with the edge of the Rune Priest's base). So you mentioned it...I'm just expanding on it and clarifying a few muddy areas. Hurray team effort!

 

 

DV8

[Stormbrow II]

@DV8: Good stuff.

 

Hills are ground for the tourneys I play in. They are for the ETC as well (fwiw). Buildings and stuff that are 3" up make Jaws off limits.

[Wulfebane]

I find the debate a bit skewed. Particularly I disagree on elevated models. I understand and appreciate most of what's been said, but as DV8 mentioned, "A line has only length, no height or width (both of which would make it a plane and not a line)." This does not mean that there is no height, only that your interpretation would assume GW to base their wording on semantics. From an overhead perspective, it is a line. From a 1st-person perspective, it is a dot. GW has stated that JotWW may pass through terrain, but under the limitations being suggested, that would make it similar to a laser beam, not a gaping chasm with a physical up-down direction.

 

My reasoning, since the rules for JotWW are ambiguous, is based on the description of the power itself. A chasm in the ground literally opens up. In my opinion, this tear is literally ripping the ground like tearing paper. Anything above or below is being ripped in half along with it. Visual example would be the super market scene in "2012" before LA goes under. I think of it as a phantasmal 24" long axe blade coming down and cleaving into the gaming table, burrowing straight into Hel. Everything within the descent of that blade, above or below, is at risk of falling in.

 

When thinking of the types of gaming tables GW puts out at conventions, it would be ridiculous not to assume JotWW can't affect other "levels" Assume the rune priest is standing at "ground level" over a cave (per several past GW tables). He uses JotWW and opens a chasm in the earth...but not the ground within the cavern? Furthermore, it's not simply a physical attack, it is a psychic attack, and in that, leniency on elevated justification might be prudent. As the description of JotWW states, the rune priest asks the spirit of the world to crack open under the feet of his enemies, which has nothing to do with the placement of the rune priest himself, other than starting point.

________

tl;dr : I disagree with elevation being discounted.

[Spacefrisian]

It says "line on the ground" thats ground level not higher up levels.

 

Also fluff and rules should be strictly seperated, eg Spacemarines would be alot stronger if we used the fluff cause its been worded that way. Ragnar wouldnt fear any sniper shopt anymore as he can simply dodge them without saving throw and he could ride any Ork vehicle on the field.

[Wulfebane]

Point in fact, it says "..trace a straight line along the board, starting from the Rune Priest.." thus the contention. Even if you were correct, tracing a line on the ground is potentially impossible given terrain topography. You would need a wide-beam (24") laser pointer raised over the table or a piece of string or some such. Since most people (including GW per their comments in the v1.1 errata) simply turn their tape measure on its side and hold it over the table, they negate terrain topography...but then they're not tracing a "line on the ground", merely above it.

[DV8]

Point in fact, it says "..trace a straight line along the board, starting from the Rune Priest.." thus the contention. Even if you were correct, tracing a line on the ground is potentially impossible given terrain topography. You would need a wide-beam (24") laser pointer raised over the table or a piece of string or some such. Since most people (including GW per their comments in the v1.1 errata) simply turn their tape measure on its side and hold it over the table, they negate terrain topography...but then they're not tracing a "line on the ground", merely above it.

 

If you're going to be that semantical, then you should require opponents to literally lift their models so that you could put a piece of straight piece of string (or whatever you fancy) 24" long from the Rune Priest to represent Jaws, and then ask them to put their models back, to see what the line touches.

 

Games Workshop (and per conventional practice, most everyone else) uses a tape measure on it's side, held over the table, because it allows them to visually see (without having to adjust the models) just who would be "hit" by the line. They aren't, however, holding it dozens of feet up, or even a foot up! Since most miniatures are of equal height (about an inch and a half to 2 inches), you can hold it more or less just above head height of a model and (with accuracy) determine who would actually be hit by the Jaws line.

 

The point in case now is the argument: does Jaws affect models elevated above the ground level? And additionally, can the Rune Priest cast when "elevated" above ground level?

 

Enemies above ground level. A line, as previously covered, has no height or width, or it would be considered a plane, not a line. A line drawn along ground level cannot possibly touch models elevated above said ground level or else it would cease to be a line. So no, Jaws would not affect models above ground level.

 

Rune Priest above ground level. Per the v1.1 Errata, the Jaws line must originate touching the edge of the Rune Priest's base (but of course, the Priest is unaffected). Because the line must be drawn along the ground, must be straight, and can have no height, there is no conceivable way that a Rune Priest could be on an elevated level above ground level and meet every criteria of Jaws.

 

If you drew the line touching the Rune Priest, it would then not be on the ground, nor would it remain a straight line as it courses it's way down to the ground before continuing along. If you draw the line from directly beneath the Rune Priest but on ground level, it would then no longer originate from the Rune Priest's base.

 

I don't know of any standard gaming table (particularly tournaments) that will have such detailed table surfaces as to allow for caves that go below ground level. By RAW, while it makes no sense, they would be treated as separate levels below the ground and would, in point of fact, be immune to Jaws (just like models above ground level are immune to Jaws).

 

 

DV8

[skoll]

"Enemies above ground level. A line, as previously covered, has no height or width, or it would be considered a plane, not a line. A line drawn along ground level cannot possibly touch models elevated above said ground level or else it would cease to be a line. So no, Jaws would not affect models above ground level."

 

Im sorry to break this to you DV8 but I'm quiet sure that GW doesnt even have any idea of the specific definition of a line, and seeing as they have never used planes to define anything on their game, that argument is quiet literally grasping at straws. Im not saying your assumption that jaws doesnt work on elevated models is wrong, however the logic you are putting behind it is not very valid, because it would require that in another similar power GW had used the word plane instead of line, which would hence prove your statement to be correct.

[DV8]

"Enemies above ground level. A line, as previously covered, has no height or width, or it would be considered a plane, not a line. A line drawn along ground level cannot possibly touch models elevated above said ground level or else it would cease to be a line. So no, Jaws would not affect models above ground level."

 

Im sorry to break this to you DV8 but I'm quiet sure that GW doesnt even have any idea of the specific definition of a line, and seeing as they have never used planes to define anything on their game, that argument is quiet literally grasping at straws. Im not saying your assumption that jaws doesnt work on elevated models is wrong, however the logic you are putting behind it is not very valid, because it would require that in another similar power GW had used the word plane instead of line, which would hence prove your statement to be correct.

 

Lulz good try but no. English language please (cue the annoying Windows XP paperclip):

 

Line Noun

Mathematics. a continuous extent of length, straight or curved, without breadth or thickness; the trace of a moving point.

 

Plane Noun

1.

a flat or level surface.

2.

Geometry . a surface generated by a straight line moving at a constant velocity with respect to a fixed point.

3.

Fine Arts . an area of a two-dimensional surface having determinate extension and spatial direction or position: oblique plane; horizontal plane.

 

A line, by definition, can have no width or height or it ceases to be a line. If you won't recognize the English definition of the word "line" and require Games Workshop to differentiate on their own what they mean by "line", then you're essentially saying that the words as defined in English language have zero bearing in anything Games Workshop publishes. Yes? No?

 

By that logic, since Games Workshop has never officially stated the exact length/measurement of an inch (according to their imaginary standards), that I can arbitrarily say that an inch represents the length of my index finger. Or my forearm.

 

 

DV8

[Voracioustigger]

I think everyone needs to stop being so cute.

 

Jaws is opening a hole in the GROUND, that is why people take the I test. So, do what the rule says and what the background of the rule explains. Imagine a line 24" in front of the RP under which every model on the ground (therefore, not higher levels) takes an I test.

 

I mean, I think the only viable debate to be having over this is whether a RP on the 2nd floor of a building can Jaws other models on his floor. I think a fair compromise would be yes, but this should be a decision of your gaming group, not the decision of RAI vs. RAW bickering.

[DV8]

I think everyone needs to stop being so cute.

 

Jaws is opening a hole in the GROUND, that is why people take the I test. So, do what the rule says and what the background of the rule explains. Imagine a line 24" in front of the RP under which every model on the ground (therefore, not higher levels) takes an I test.

 

I mean, I think the only viable debate to be having over this is whether a RP on the 2nd floor of a building can Jaws other models on his floor. I think a fair compromise would be yes, but this should be a decision of your gaming group, not the decision of RAI vs. RAW bickering.

 

Who's trying to be so cute? I've literally spelled out in black and white (as has Stormbrow II in his blog) what you can and can't do with Jaws. There's no way around it, particularly attempting to hit elevated models with Jaws (or casting Jaws with an elevated Rune Priest). It's not an issue of RAI vs RAW, and it's not about compromise. By RAW it's just not possible.

 

Some people just choose to not see it.

 

 

DV8

[skoll]

In essence yes. Seeing as the colloquial often takes precedence to basic ruling of the English language(and most people don't abide by the regular definition of a line). Games workshop has never utilized the word plane for powers, even those that could easily warrant it. Also the nature of the power itself seems to speak of a plane , does it not? it is the ground opening up creating a deep chasm beneath the feet of the unsuspecting. Until they FAQ it I'm casting from all surfaces (however not in a diagonal line, as I do clearly agree with you for this doesn't make sense), otherwise you wouldn't even be able to cast jaws from inside a rhino.

 

 

also I'm wondering why so many people sign their post with their name? it's not like we dont know it's them we can clearly see name and avatar next to yer post.

[DV8]

In essence yes. Seeing as the colloquial often takes precedence to basic ruling of the English language(and most people don't abide by the regular definition of a line). Games workshop has never utilized the word plane for powers, even those that could easily warrant it. Also the nature of the power itself seems to speak of a plane , does it not? it is the ground opening up creating a deep chasm beneath the feet of the unsuspecting.

 

EDIT: What colloquial? There is no possible way people can confuse a line with a plane, unless they simply don't know what either are (which would be a sad state for any education system since this is simple geometry...you learn this in basic mathematics!)

 

A fluff description does not an argument for rules make. Whether you think it was Games Workshop's intent is irrelevant; RAW simply doesn't support your argument. In fact, every single requirement for drawing the line for Jaws (a straight line, on the ground, and originating from the Rune Priest's base) would counter your position.

 

Until they FAQ it I'm casting from all surfaces (however not in a diagonal line, as I do clearly agree with you for this doesn't make sense),

 

Then you would be cheating.

 

otherwise you wouldn't even be able to cast jaws from inside a rhino.

 

The Rune Priest inhabits the same spatial area that the Rhino does; assuming the Rhino is on the ground level, the Rune Priest is also on the ground level. Per Games Workshop's ruling on such weapons as Templates firing out of a Rhino hatch, the transport in question (in this case the friendly Rhino) is unaffected.

 

Don't think of it as literally firing from the top hatch, where the line carries over the top of the Rhino, down it's side, and then continuing along. What actually happens is the ground begins to open up just under the Rhino and extends along the ground. You simply measure from the top hatch (being the fire point) for line of sight and range.

 

also I'm wondering why so many people sign their post with their name? it's not like we dont know it's them we can clearly see name and avatar next to yer post.

 

It's like writing a letter or an email. It's proper convention to sign with your name, even if they know who it's from (return address of the envelope, the email address, etc.). It maintains a sense of decorum and is a reminder (at least to me) of the etiquette that must be maintained. Point in case, I text (on my phone, just clarifying) or instant message far differently (and far more casually) than when I write on forums.

 

 

DV8

[skoll]

However there are certain rules that wouldnt make sense , for example think of deployments. Where specific lines are drawn technically you may not deploy on an elevated surface since it isnt WITHIN the lines, as the lines only exist on the 2d plane that is the table top which contains the x and y axis in turn anything on the Z axis is out of bounds because it doesnt exist within those lines. This is clearly the case yet people still deploy within terrain , even tough technically they are "CHEATING".

 

see how GW doesnt really apply the concept of line very well?

 

 

It's like writing a letter or an email. It's proper convention to sign with your name, even if they know who it's from (return address of the envelope, the email address, etc.). It maintains a sense of decorum and is a reminder (at least to me) of the etiquette that must be maintained. Point in case, I text (on my phone, just clarifying) or instant message far differently (and far more casually) than when I write on forums.

thanks for the clarification, this wasnt a personal attack on you. I just noticed that SEVERAL people were doing it.

[DV8]

However there are certain rules that wouldnt make sense , for example think of deployments. Where specific lines are drawn technically you may not deploy on an elevated surface since it isnt WITHIN the lines, as the lines only exist on the 2d plane that is the table top which contains the x and y axis in turn anything on the Z axis is out of bounds because it doesnt exist within those lines. This is clearly the case yet people still deploy within terrain , even tough technically they are "CHEATING".

 

see how GW doesnt really apply the concept of line very well?

 

Since when has Games Workshop ever said you have to mark out deployment zones with "lines"? The only stipulations are distances. A good example is in the table-quarters style deployment (Cleanse from 4th Edition, I forget the name of it in 5th).

 

You divide the table into four equal quarters, 2 per side. On a 6' by 4' table that means each player's deployment zone is up to 24" from their back table edge, and up to 36" from either the left or right table edge, depending on which quarters were chosen to be deployment zones. Additionally, you cannot deploy within 12" of the center, and you must be more than 24" away from the enemy. At no point does Games Workshop require you to draw "lines", simply that you abide by the minimum (or maximum) distances as set out in the scenarios.

 

In a case of a model on an elevated floor, so long as they are no more than 24" from their back table edge, no more than 36" from the left or right table edge (again dependent on which "zone" they chose/are deploying in), more than 12" from the center and more than 24" away from the enemy, they can be deployed there. If you were to imagine each deployment zone to be contained by an imaginary box 24" deep, 36" wide, and infinitely tall; so long as a model abides by the deployment distances, basic geometry dictates that no model could ever be deployed outside of that box.

 

 

DV8

[skoll]

small rule book pg 90

pitched battle "table is divided in two halves by drawing an imaginary line trough the middle of the short table edges"

 

then further on "he then deploys his force in his half of the table, with all models more than 12' away from the table's middle line (this is his deployment zone)" so then if there is an 11 inch tall tower exactly 5 inches away from the middle line I may deploy on top of that tower, because the distance of what im deploying would be farther than 12 inches from the middle line as it is NOT a plane and exists only on the 2d plane of the table board.

[Prot]

Without getting cute, or insulting people, I think it would be great if we could figure this one out....

 

But I think the real problem is that the rules almost treat the table top as a 2D environment.

 

Case and point, the silly idea of shooting a Baal flamer through its own tank hull (yes, I know people that try to do this) because they say the main turret flamer does just this very same thing! Ugh.

 

I know another guy who claims he can flip his flamer template on its side so he wont' hit his own men. Ugh.

 

I guess the idea of saying straight line, on the ground means we have to use common sense. I guess I wouldn't try it from the upper floor of a building, but I'm still not sure about structures over ground, but your are still at the lowest level you can be at.

 

I wish I could post some pictures of a tournament I was just at... there was quite a bit of unusual terrain that didn't quite take you up a floor, but it wasn't 'on the ground' either. But for purposes of Jaws, I was as low as I could get to the ground while standing on it.... yeesh, I'm confusing myself now. lol

[DV8]

small rule book pg 90

pitched battle "table is divided in two halves by drawing an imaginary line trough the middle of the short table edges"

 

then further on "he then deploys his force in his half of the table, with all models more than 12' away from the table's middle line (this is his deployment zone)" so then if there is an 11 inch tall tower exactly 5 inches away from the middle line I may deploy on top of that tower, because the distance of what im deploying would be farther than 12 inches from the middle line as it is NOT a place and exists only on the 2d plane of the table board.

 

Touche, but that doesn't really change my argument. By RAW, I would allow that (although I've never really thought about it or realized it was possible till now), but there are several things to keep in mind:

 

• As models must be more than 24" away, it changes nothing for initial ranges of most weaponry, and he would also be unable to pull a first turn charge (ranges for weapons are measured model to model, and thus these lines would be traveling diagonally).
  
• Unless he's jump infantry/skimmers/vehicles (silliness but sure why not), it would take him at minimum 2 turns to get down from an 11 inch tower. And if he is, jumping off and moving his 12" he would still only land exactly at the middle of the table (assuming he deploys right at the edge of the top floor)*
  
• Assuming popular convention to model a floor as 3" tall, that's almost a 4 floor tower. Apart from particularly thematic pieces of terrain, you don't typically encounter many of those. I play lots of Necromunda and even I only have a handful (re: 2 or 3) 3 floor buildings. At most you'll get 2 stories, particularly at tournaments.
  

 

*Movement for jump infantry and skimmers, while they ignore intervening terrain, must still be measured point to point. That is to say, that at the end of their movement, their base must not end up more than 12" (for jump infantry) or 24" (for fast skimmers) from where they first started.

 

.....|----------------12"---------------|

___A

| ^ |

| | |

| | |

| | |

| | |

|11"|

| | |

| | |

| | |

| | |

| | |<-5"->B.................................C

---------------------ground---------------------

 

A poor illustration but it serves the purpose. Assuming A represents a unit of jump infantry, their initial movement would only bring them to point B, not C.

 

Because the enemy must also abide by the "more than 12" from the middle line rule, there is no possible way, even with fleet, for said jump infantry to hit another unit in assault (assume point D), because on the ground floor, they would then be more than 12" away. Similarly on an elevated floor, the enemy would never actually be in range since they must still be deployed more than 24" away from the enemy.

 

 

DV8

[skoll]

my point isn't to even do that however ,I was pointing out this instance because here it is clear that isnt what games workshop meant they obviously meant to use line as a plane. Which I'm quiet sure is what they meant to do with Jaws.

[DV8]

my point isn't to even do that however ,I was pointing out this instance because here it is clear that isnt what games workshop meant they obviously meant to use line as a plane. Which I'm quiet sure is what they meant to do with Jaws.

 

You're right, it is clear: Games Workshop simply said "line", not "plane". That most people naturally assume (however colloquially) that Games Workshop might have meant a vertical plane to divide the table and not a line does not change the fact that it's simply an interpretation that the entire community has naturally accepted. By RAW if someone wanted to pull that kind of a maneuver, they would be fully within their rights to (although they wouldn't make many friends).

 

With that in mind, when Games Workshop says "line" for Jaws, they quite literally mean "line". Unless Games Workshop specifies otherwise, the English language tells us that a line has neither width nor height.

 

I don't understand why you're still trying to debate this. By RAI in some instances (in the case of deployment) you may be correct (since almost the entirety of the gaming community operates under that very assumption), and in the case of Jaws (by RAI), I can understand why you are saying what you are; from a certain point of view it does make sense.

 

However, that is not my argument. My argument is simply this: by RAW, a line is a line, not a plane, and by RAW you cannot interpret a line to mean a plane, in any circumstance (deployment, Jaws or otherwise).

 

And that the entire gaming community may implicitly "house-rule" the "line" for deployment to be some imaginary "plane" does not give precedent to declare that the line for Jaws can be anything other than a line. In both instances you're literally changing the rules from what is written to what you think should happen, and in the case of Jaws, while you may have a simple "fluff" explanation that might account for hitting elevated models, every stipulation for using Jaws states otherwise.

 

 

DV8

[Voracioustigger]

I think everyone needs to stop being so cute.

Who's trying to be so cute?

DV8

 

I'm sorry, when my Rune Priest is on the 1mm thick base that my ruins are on, and someone tries to tell me that he can't use a power on ANYONE because he's not on the "ground" because the line would have to go down 1mm, THAT is being "cute."

 

Also, I can be cute too...

 

The primary definition of "along" is "through, on, beside, over, or parallel to the length or direction of;." So "along the board" simply means a line, in THE SAME DIRECTION as the board that is parallel to it. The board itself is flat (terrain is on TOP of the board), so "along the board" would simply mean the line is drawn FROM the RPs base PARALLEL to the board.

 

I think this is how I and everyone I have played with has played, and it fits RAW and RAI.

 

So, in conclusion... you are being too cute.