GW Hates GK Players...

[Tybrus]

Ok, so is it just pure hate for GK players, or just a slap in the face.

 

Space Wolves pack of troops come with 10 marines and more extra's then you could ever need. Like 7 bare heads and what 5 helmet heads per sprue? All of this for the same price GK players get the HONOR of paying for 5 marines, and they don't even give enough Halberds to arm the squad!

 

To add insult to injury GW couldn't even bother to make an Army pack like all other releases have had!

 

So in the end GK players pay twice as much to get squads, and you know what that means? All those players that said "I need plastic models cause they are cheeper" are paying MORE NOW then they did for metals!

 

+++ REDACTED BY BY ORDER OF [REDACTED] +++

 

Thanks GW, Thanks...

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It's just not right I'm telling ya !!!

 

G :(

[Something Wycked]

While I agree with you that GW should be more forthcoming on spare bits, I don't understand the reason for your anger.

 

Your comparisons don't match up. Heads are always plentiful on sprues, but weapons aren't. Devastator boxes don't come with 4 of each weapon (or even 2 of each weapon). Lightning Claws for PA troops are in ridiculously short supply, as were PA Thunderhammers (which you have to buy a box of Death Company to get, short of paying $3 to a bits store for just one of them.) So of course the Halberds are in short supply; they only have to give you 5 swords because that is the base, standard gear. Any other bits are, well, the normal supply of special weapons for GW boxes.

 

Which is to say, rare, so you'll have to buy more boxes.

 

This is Standard Operating Procedure for GW :(

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Also, you should have halberd guys left over from your previous army, unless you're just starting, in which case take Purifiers (as you will only be taking 5 anyway, as you need a hammer guy to kill walkers and the four special weapon guys). Strike squads only need swords anyway (maybe a MC'd hammer on the Justicar), ditto for Interceptors (falchions are easy to model, and I'm pretty sure you get like 5 pairs in the the box).

[spartan249]

Stuff like models have three factors to consider: Quality, Quantity, and Price. You can't have all three, and in the case of GKs, quality and quantity are what is in abundance. You get a heck of a lot of bits and options for those five guys, and they are all well sculpted models (with the exception of Interceptor backpacks... those things are fragile as all hell).

 

I don't mind the extra price, as there's a lot of stuff in those boxes that you can use or save and sell.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The Grey Hunter boxed set is probably one of the best ever. I think SW were the first to ever get customized plastic sprues back in 3rd edition though I could be wrong. My only wish is that GKT came with two sets of each heavy weapon and two arms to hold them. I'm going to be using some mega blasters from the Epic Titan for psycannons - one little clip and they fit right into the slot for the stormbolter.

 

G :D

[Prathios]

While I agree with you that GW should be more forthcoming on spare bits, I don't understand the reason for your anger.

 

Your comparisons don't match up. Heads are always plentiful on sprues, but weapons aren't. Devastator boxes don't come with 4 of each weapon (or even 2 of each weapon). Lightning Claws for PA troops are in ridiculously short supply, as were PA Thunderhammers (which you have to buy a box of Death Company to get, short of paying $3 to a bits store for just one of them.) So of course the Halberds are in short supply; they only have to give you 5 swords because that is the base, standard gear. Any other bits are, well, the normal supply of special weapons for GW boxes.

 

Which is to say, rare, so you'll have to buy more boxes.

 

This is Standard Operating Procedure for GW :)

 

 

I laughed out loud at this. When you basically said, "Hey look, GW screws everyone really hard. Don't be angry, just grab your ankles and take it like a champ ok?"

 

But seriously, he's only right in so far as GW has a business model that is merciless in its pursuit to maximize profit margins at the expense of everyone's soul. I love 40k with a passion, it's my favorite universe... but I loathe GW and wake up every day praying I'll find out they were bought out by a better company.

[Wildfire]

Try playing Inquisition instead of GK and see how you feel then.

[Axeman]

As for the army boxes - Blood Angels didnt get a box on there latest release untill their second wave of models. And they were the last 40k army to be redone before GK. Maybe the box can be expected in coming months. Not to mention prices of miniatures have been going up fairly regularly for the last 10 years I've played the game.

[Thaelion Hexis]

I think the price is also affected by their worth and quantity in game. Players won't be buying too many. At 1500pts I had 21 knights on the ground. That's basically a modifier on top of the creation costs.

[Something Wycked]

I think the price is also affected by their worth and quantity in game. Players won't be buying too many. At 1500pts I had 21 knights on the ground. That's basically a modifier on top of the creation costs.

I plan on playing ~50 models at 2000 points :tu: This is going to be an expensive army for me. Again :)

[Morollan]

I think the price is also affected by their worth and quantity in game.

 

This is possibly the most annoying thing about GW. Does the fact that a model is an elite choice make it more costly to design or produce? No! So why does it suddenly become more expensive for us customers? Because we're mugs basically. :)

[Apollo Densin]

Just be glad we arn't paying forge world prices. But ya I think one of the biggest turn offs to this game is the price. Seeing as I just started It is around a $500 investment in everything.

 

Since I decided to go GK as my first army I got kind of screwed over with there being no army box yet.

 

My uncle had a DH army so i got a bunch of his extra models so thats why i did GK as my first, plus GK are freakin awesome.

[Chairman_woo]

To the OP: So you are complaining that the models got more expensive and have less options......

 

 

.....The new plastic kits cost the same as the metal ones when they were released (power armour kit anyway).................

 

......The metal kits did not include extra wargear................

 

 

What planet are you on exactly? If you are complaining that metal got more expensive in recent years pls blame China, and FIAT currency based economics. GW simply adjusted their costs to reflect the fact that pewter more than doubled in price over the last few years, all the metal models are becoming prohibitively expensive to produce which is part of the reason plasic is being pushed so hard.

 

As for the price of the plastics, go look at what it will cost you to get a decent airfix kit these days. £15-20 will get you a 1:48 spitfire, or 2-3 at 1:72 scale. The days when I could outfit an full squadron on my pocket money (£20 a month at the time, tho this is many years ago now) are gone. Too limited a market now compared to the colosal busness airfix had only 10 years ago, concequently their cost to profit has sliped much closer to where GW is i.e. a specialised market with a limited audience.

 

Last GW financial report I read put the price of a £20.50 plastic box as being £17ish costs (i forget the exact number but the profit margin is between £1-2 on most kits.)

 

GW is a relatively small company, as such profit margins are usually very tight (especially with the cash GW puts into promotion/stores etc.). Remember during 2005 GW actually made a loss on every kit they sold!!! (they are making profit again now).

[Red Lost Soldier]

The new plastic GK are some of the most detailed and option packed boxes I've seen from GW, ever. With 2 GKSS boxes I've ten more knights plus enough weapons and accessories to completely retrofit my 30 old GK if I want to. You can make 3 different squads from these kits. The GKT box set has so many bits and pieces you can basically make HQ choices out of them. Basically I'm stoked with the new releases.

[Morollan]

Last GW financial report I read put the price of a £20.50 plastic box as being £17ish costs (i forget the exact number but the profit margin is between £1-2 on most kits.)

 

I suspect your figures may be worng here. I've just looked up a £20.50 box (Grey Knights) and can buy this online for £15.38. The retailer must be making at least some sort of profit so I think we can assume that he bought it from GW for less than the selling price. I very much doubt that GW is selling their stock to retailers at a loss.

[Chairman_woo]

Last GW financial report I read put the price of a £20.50 plastic box as being £17ish costs (i forget the exact number but the profit margin is between £1-2 on most kits.)

 

I suspect your figures may be worng here. I've just looked up a £20.50 box (Grey Knights) and can buy this online for £15.38. The retailer must be making at least some sort of profit so I think we can assume that he bought it from GW for less than the selling price. I very much doubt that GW is selling their stock to retailers at a loss.

 

 

Thats the costs at point of sale (i.e. in a GW store). Gives you some idea how much GW spends on hobby stores and staff etc.

 

Selling to 3rd parties removes their distribution costs etc. its the same reason why say the phones4u website has substantially better deals than the retail store. The overheads of salesmen, store rental etc. do not need to apply.

 

GW thinks that their hobby store based buisness model works, and arguably it does, but it does make your kits significantly more expensive. They could kick out their stuff on the website for the same prices as 3rd pary stores if they did things differently. However GW belives their buisnsess depends on the "complete hobby" approach as it drives much of the interest in their product.

 

My personal oppinion is that this is a bit of a leftover from what made GW so sucessfull in the early years i.e. agressively dominating the highstreet RPG/hobby shop market by buying up any competition and actively stalking their territory with promotions, store activities etc. It worked a treat and now GW is basically the only shop of its kind in the market, with the only competition being either subservient LGS buisnesses, or traditional model shops. Theres a good arguement to be made for GW to decentralise how their hobby shops are owned and run i.e. less GW stores and more support for LGS's (I'm thinking along the lines of franchised shops). GW might argue that they need to continue to agressively defend their buisness however, lest they loose their iron grasp...

[Lord Ragnarok]

The GK sprues have tons of accessory items vs the SW sprue. To me, it looks like GW figured this would be a smallish/elite army and they decided to value accessories more v/s more torso head options. So less guys, more bling due to smallish armies.

 

For SW, we don't even have a melta gun in the sprue, which is abundantly used.

[pingo]

There's only so much you can fit on a sprue. The PAGK sprue is so jam packed there's not really any room for more stuff.

 

If GW had added 5 more legs and 5 more torsos to the sprue, there would not be room for all the various weapons. Then players would complain that they want another psycannon, or more halberds in the kit and you'd just end up buying more boxes or bits anyway to build the unit you want. At least with the current kit you will have exactly what you need, most of the time. Sure, sometimes you might be missing a halberd, or be an incinerator short of what you want, but is that not true of all armies? GW have done a damn fine job of giving you enough stuff to satisfy most desires.

 

Creating a 10 man box with equivalent options to the current kit would require the creation of an additional mould (costly) and shipping and storing a bigger box (additional cost), or putting two of the same sprue in the box and charging more for the kit. Buying in lots of 10 would be cool (if you actually wanted to buy 10 PAGKs of course – you might only want 5) I think it's a worse option overall.

 

I think GW have done a smart thing with the PAGK kit. They only have to produce and supply one sprue to cover 4 units. It's rather beautifully efficient. Players simply buy enough boxes to cover the number of GKs they want, and can expect to be able to move bits around to equip their army as they see fit. This certainly cannot be said of regular marines (or, indeed, just about all the other armies).

 

Naturally, armies with a lot of PAGKs may be pricey. But then you can buy online for a discount, in which case it actually starts to look like a bargain.

 

For better or worse, this is a hobby that requires a siginifcant investment not only in time, but also in money. I think that for your money you get quite a good deal: time spent building the models, time spent painting the models, time spent playing with the models, and the satisfaction and enjoyment that comes from all those things.

 

As with any investment, you need to consider whether you really want to invest in the first place. The price of the hobby is fairly transparent. Going into a GW and buying a shedload of stuff before realising it cost too much is pretty foolish. You have to consider things like cost before getting into anything in life.

 

If you decide to pursue the hobby, then as with any investment, you need to consider whether you're still getting a good deal. If you think so, great; carry on. If not, then maybe you should consider getting out while the going's good.

 

I don't think GW hates (or 'beats' – really? Overdramatic much?) customers. Rather, they are just like any other business in that they try and make the most money they can. Mark-ups can be surprisingly high in a lot of areas of retail, and GW will squeeze as much as they can. They'd be doing a disservice to their shareholders if they didn't try and maximise profits. It's kind of par for the course.

 

The positive side for us is that in order to make as much money as they can, they are providing quality products. Which we don't have to buy if we don't want to.

[breng77]

Space Wolves pack of troops come with 10 marines and more extra's then you could ever need. Like 7 bare heads and what 5 helmet heads per sprue?

 

Except they don't come with Flamers, or Melta guns. Dollar per point Greyknights are not all that expensive, we should all Quit bitching and cry for the Tyranid and ork players.

 

Ork Boyz are $24.75 for 10 Boyz (60ish points worth of models) =$0.41 per point

 

Gaunts are $24.75 for 12 models (60 points) = $0.41 per point

 

A Strike squad is 100 points minimum ($33.00) =$0.33 per point.

 

Tyranids also have boxes like warriors, which comes with 3 models, for $35.00, all of which must be equiped the same, and then GW only puts one of most of the upgrades (such as rending claws) in the box. So to make one 3 man Warrior squad with rending claws would run you $105.00

[Adir]

I think the new box set contents are absolutely amazing. There is so much packed on each sprue. The PAGK kit gives you the equivalent armament of a devastator box, specialized bits of an assault marine box, and the essentials for a viable troop (tactical) selection. Honestly, there is a lot of bang for your buck considering you really shouldn't have to scramble around or bits order to come up with viable squads.

 

Having said that, I am truly disappointed with the design choices that were made for these models. For some reason, GW went cartoony with the look of the knights (oversized face plates, storm bolters, magazines, etc.). I REALLY miss the look of belt fed storm bolters! And why did they write "DEATH" on the new psycannons?!

 

I have played DH long enough that I have plenty of metal PAGK and a bunch of converted robe marines from DA to bulk out my Strike Squads. Having said that, the plastic kits combine very nicely with the old metals both from a kit bashing and a modelling perspective. I just wish GW had given up the care and feeding that the Dark Eldar models got (Jess Goodwin is still king).

[Brother Valerius]

On the topic of the army box - BA didn't get a battleforce until recently. DE still don't have a battleforce. If you want to save by getting the battleforce deal, you have to be patient. It's the same in every industry, as well. Want a video game the day it comes out? You're paying $50. If you wait, you can get it cheap. It's the same everywhere. It isn't a case of GW behaving so much worse than anyone else, and it certainly isn't a case of GW trying to screw over GK players.

 

Don't be so over-dramatic about things, not everything is a plot against you or things you like.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

Yeah the costs are another reason why i avoid paladins. To make a fully kitted out paladin squad (10 men, 4 Psycannons) you need 4 boxes. Since the psycannon is, arguably, the only weapon worth using on a GKT there is little chance of finding spares online.

[prozaczack]

Yeah the costs are another reason why i avoid paladins. To make a fully kitted out paladin squad (10 men, 4 Psycannons) you need 4 boxes. Since the psycannon is, arguably, the only weapon worth using on a GKT there is little chance of finding spares online.

 

 

You could always use these psycannons, thats probably what I'll be doing.

 

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/...Id=prod1140049a

 

I prefer them to the new design anyway.

[Gentlemanloser]

It's what I've done! :P

 

Plus you can use all the extra plastic 'bling' to strengthen the join of the metal arm to plastic body, if you (like me!) don't pin stuff. ;)