GW Hates GK Players...

[Prathios]

You're correct, I was looking at the box bellow for dimensions. Perhaps this is better http://www.amazon.com/NYA-48-M4-Sherman-Ta...pd_bxgy_t_img_b that is more highly detailed and 10 dollars more, as well as close to the same size and detail. My point remains. Also the fact that its a discount retailer only amplifies my point, amazon has no overhead so they can afford to do that. I purposely chose amazon for this reason.

 

That link is to the same exact tank as the first one. I have already shown that 1.) Tamiya models sold by Tamyia (and as far as I have seen in Brick and Mortar stores) are the same cost (or more) as GW models for similar models. 2.) GW models are also cheaper on Amazon then from GW, so showing Amazon (again a company who produces next to nothing) proves nothing except that other people can discount prices below MSRP, which we already know, if GW did this it would be Monopolistic as they would make it impossible for retailers to make a profit of any kind. Standard markup on most items is around 40%, large retailers (such as Amazon) can afford to sell at 20-30% because they are still making a profit, due to sheer number of sales. GW cannot do this, or they eliminate all of the smaller retailers from being able to sell anything (something that Amazon and the like are already doing, which scares me frankly since it eliminates local buisness, and no LGS means no place to play). You can argue on the price it costs GW to produce their product, but frankly most minature wargaming products are similarly expensive (Privateer press minis cost about the same, the game is slightly cheaper because armies are smaller)

 

My mistake, I guess when I hit ctrl V I should have made sure it was the right link. Not sure why it didn't copy the new one. Here it is :lol: http://www.amazon.com/35M1A2-Abrams-Main-B...k/dp/B00061H5F6

[Grey Mage]

If you think it's too expensive, get out. Simple as that. It's not like the other minature game are markedly cheaper than GW's, so I have to say the price is right.

Really?

 

The model equivilant- and detail equivilant- of a 1500pt HE army from mantic- $80 Compare- 1500pts of 8th edition HEs- using the same setup- $282

 

The starter set for a PP army- $50 Compare- Battleforce- $90, cant field a legal force in most cases.

 

A full PP army- $150 for everything most players want. Compare- $150 for a starter army of most races, $400+ for a full tournament army with a couple options.

 

Price of a Mythiccast Thunderwolf Set (5 wolves)- $73. Compare- Canis $42 for one, 210 for 5.

 

Now, tell me again how theyre not 'markedly cheaper' than GW.

[Prathios]

If you think it's too expensive, get out. Simple as that. It's not like the other minature game are markedly cheaper than GW's, so I have to say the price is right.

Really?

 

The model equivilant- and detail equivilant- of a 1500pt HE army from mantic- $80 Compare- 1500pts of 8th edition HEs- using the same setup- $282

 

The starter set for a PP army- $50 Compare- Battleforce- $90, cant field a legal force in most cases.

 

A full PP army- $150 for everything most players want. Compare- $150 for a starter army of most races, $400+ for a full tournament army with a couple options.

 

Price of a Mythiccast Thunderwolf Set (5 wolves)- $73. Compare- Canis $42 for one, 210 for 5.

 

Now, tell me again how theyre not 'markedly cheaper' than GW.

 

This type of argument drives me crazy. It's the same argument as, if you don't like your president get out of the country. Hoping things change and productively talking about it is not a sin. I think it's too expensive and I want the price to come down. Views like Cpt Blood Donator make it sound like he wants to pay more. Then by all means Cpt Blood, start sending GW charity checks in the mail so you can give them even more.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

If you think it's too expensive, get out. Simple as that. It's not like the other minature game are markedly cheaper than GW's, so I have to say the price is right.

Really?

 

The model equivilant- and detail equivilant- of a 1500pt HE army from mantic- $80 Compare- 1500pts of 8th edition HEs- using the same setup- $282

 

The starter set for a PP army- $50 Compare- Battleforce- $90, cant field a legal force in most cases.

 

A full PP army- $150 for everything most players want. Compare- $150 for a starter army of most races, $400+ for a full tournament army with a couple options.

 

Price of a Mythiccast Thunderwolf Set (5 wolves)- $73. Compare- Canis $42 for one, 210 for 5.

 

Now, tell me again how theyre not 'markedly cheaper' than GW.

 

This type of argument drives me crazy. It's the same argument as, if you don't like your president get out of the country. Hoping things change and productively talking about it is not a sin. I think it's too expensive and I want the price to come down. Views like Cpt Blood Donator make it sound like he wants to pay more. Then by all means Cpt Blood, start sending GW charity checks in the mail so you can give them even more.

 

I said I am willing to pay what they charge. What you are doing is projecting your on views into my opinion. This is probably the rudest thing anyone has ever written to me on this board, so kudos to you. There is a huge difference between living in a country and playing with expensive plastic toys and dice, you chose the other. Live with it, and have the decency to judge people's comments by what they say rather than what you can project into it.

 

Because I assume you don't have the money to pay for GW's products as they are too expensive for you? Oh no, that's not what you wrote, but watch me reading that out of it.

[Grey Mage]

What you said was if I didnt like the price, I should leave the game- thats fairly rude in and of itself. Its also very straight forward:

 

Agree, or leave. Theres no projection there, but simple english. I cant agree with it either.

 

Now, before this all spirals into 'no, your rude!' and 'your moms face' lets get back to the discussion.

 

The fact remains that criticism is necessary when things are not as they should be. Many of us think the prices are NOT as they should be.

 

If you think they are, please- refute my pricing evidence and show me how reasonable they are.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

What you said was if I didnt like the price, I should leave the game- thats fairly rude in and of itself. Its also very straight forward:

 

Agree, or leave. Theres no projection there, but simple english. I cant agree with it either.

 

Now, before this all spirals into 'no, your rude!' and 'your moms face' lets get back to the discussion.

 

The fact remains that criticism is necessary when things are not as they should be. Many of us think the prices are NOT as they should be.

 

If you think they are, please- refute my pricing evidence and show me how reasonable they are.

 

What I said was either leave, or get the models cheaper. What got projeced into it was that I gladly donate money to G.W and think they are totally fair. I don't send money to G.W, I also buy stuff off eBay. Ergo the recomendation of doing that and using brake fluid. Sometimes I just want a shiny new box of models, such as Sang. Guard or Death Company. Those I will pay full money for. But when I need 20 ASM, I get them off eBay. They won't be flashy in the army, and I'd rather save the money.

 

The comparasion to the T.W-Cav was a bit unfair too. The G.W model is made out of more expensive material, and has much greater detail and a rider. Not to mention the fact that someone on G.W has to concieve the unit and write rules blah, blah, blah (as poorly concieved as it is, really thunderwolves?). The other company has just swooped in to capitalise on the lack of models, without having any costs other than design and possibly some patent breaching. I will say though, those wolves seem like a very nice deal =)

[Massaen]

GW's prices have to take into account the massive overheads they have as an international business. They also use a highly specalised plastic casting process which is not cheap - for me this leads to the best quality models of any company.

 

Comparing mantic HE with GW is like chalk and cheese to me...

[Grey Mage]

What you said was if I didnt like the price, I should leave the game- thats fairly rude in and of itself. Its also very straight forward:

 

Agree, or leave. Theres no projection there, but simple english. I cant agree with it either.

 

Now, before this all spirals into 'no, your rude!' and 'your moms face' lets get back to the discussion.

 

The fact remains that criticism is necessary when things are not as they should be. Many of us think the prices are NOT as they should be.

 

If you think they are, please- refute my pricing evidence and show me how reasonable they are.

 

What I said was either leave, or get the models cheaper. What got projeced into it was that I gladly donate money to G.W and think they are totally fair. I don't send money to G.W, I also buy stuff off eBay. Ergo the recomendation of doing that and using brake fluid. Sometimes I just want a shiny new box of models, such as Sang. Guard or Death Company. Those I will pay full money for. But when I need 20 ASM, I get them off eBay. They won't be flashy in the army, and I'd rather save the money.

 

The comparasion to the T.W-Cav was a bit unfair too. The G.W model is made out of more expensive material, and has much greater detail and a rider. Not to mention the fact that someone on G.W has to concieve the unit and write rules blah, blah, blah (as poorly concieved as it is, really thunderwolves?). The other company has just swooped in to capitalise on the lack of models, without having any costs other than design and possibly some patent breaching. I will say though, those wolves seem like a very nice deal =)

I have no problem going straight to GW, normally. The last four years of constant price hikes have made me less willing to, as has the increased customer service my LGS has been showing the last year. Id rather give that small local business my support- especially since GW seems hell bent on pricing themselves out of my market. My problem is that a two dollar increase on their major products 4 years in a row is petty. Raising the prices for their starter sets after theyve been out only a couple months was likewise petty- the costs to produce them couldnt have changed so much in that time.

 

As for the TWC... no, I dont think it was unfair at all. Theyre made of resin, wich isnt cheap either. Theyre original sculpts and they have casting costs too, comparable to those needed for pewter casting. GW knows people want these minis, so why arent they here?

 

Ill admit, GW minis have been getting prettier in this last generation- and thats great, but it doesnt begin to explain a 30% increase in the cost of buying an army to me. Not even close.

 

Id give my last paycheck to be able to sit down with a guy from GW who knew what he was talkin about, and hear from the horses mouth what was going on with them.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

What you said was if I didnt like the price, I should leave the game- thats fairly rude in and of itself. Its also very straight forward:

 

Agree, or leave. Theres no projection there, but simple english. I cant agree with it either.

 

Now, before this all spirals into 'no, your rude!' and 'your moms face' lets get back to the discussion.

 

The fact remains that criticism is necessary when things are not as they should be. Many of us think the prices are NOT as they should be.

 

If you think they are, please- refute my pricing evidence and show me how reasonable they are.

 

What I said was either leave, or get the models cheaper. What got projeced into it was that I gladly donate money to G.W and think they are totally fair. I don't send money to G.W, I also buy stuff off eBay. Ergo the recomendation of doing that and using brake fluid. Sometimes I just want a shiny new box of models, such as Sang. Guard or Death Company. Those I will pay full money for. But when I need 20 ASM, I get them off eBay. They won't be flashy in the army, and I'd rather save the money.

 

The comparasion to the T.W-Cav was a bit unfair too. The G.W model is made out of more expensive material, and has much greater detail and a rider. Not to mention the fact that someone on G.W has to concieve the unit and write rules blah, blah, blah (as poorly concieved as it is, really thunderwolves?). The other company has just swooped in to capitalise on the lack of models, without having any costs other than design and possibly some patent breaching. I will say though, those wolves seem like a very nice deal =)

I have no problem going straight to GW, normally. The last four years of constant price hikes have made me less willing to, as has the increased customer service my LGS has been showing the last year. Id rather give that small local business my support- especially since GW seems hell bent on pricing themselves out of my market. My problem is that a two dollar increase on their major products 4 years in a row is petty. Raising the prices for their starter sets after theyve been out only a couple months was likewise petty- the costs to produce them couldnt have changed so much in that time.

 

As for the TWC... no, I dont think it was unfair at all. Theyre made of resin, wich isnt cheap either. Theyre original sculpts and they have casting costs too, comparable to those needed for pewter casting. GW knows people want these minis, so why arent they here?

 

Ill admit, GW minis have been getting prettier in this last generation- and thats great, but it doesnt begin to explain a 30% increase in the cost of buying an army to me. Not even close.

 

Id give my last paycheck to be able to sit down with a guy from GW who knew what he was talkin about, and hear from the horses mouth what was going on with them.

 

And the last bit is something they are never willing to do, unfortunetly. About the TWC, speculation has it that they will be out of the next codex as G.W aren't happy with the unit. Having no models keeps people from using them. Sort of.

 

edit:

But I won't put it past G.W that the actual reason is to sell more expensive metal men. Eeeer, wolves. Also, I dunno about the prices of their resin casting. Those wolves are rather cheap compared to other resin products of the same size and detail, so I'm not too sure about the quality. I'm not comparing to forge world pricing, as that is in a leaugue of it's own.

[Gentlemanloser]

Last I heard for the TWC is they would be released by GW later this year. :/

 

Why would they not be happy with the unit?

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

Last I heard for the TWC is they would be released by GW later this year. :/

 

Why would they not be happy with the unit?

 

Some crap on BoLS about the wolves being close to game-breakingly points efficient. I don't remember what it was. Also, they're probably the worst fluff to come out of G.W this side of Matt Ward. Matt Ward is a genius compare to that. Although it might have been some BoLS whining based on nothing. Let's never disregard that possibility.

[Grimtooth]

If you think it's too expensive, get out. Simple as that. It's not like the other minature game are markedly cheaper than GW's, so I have to say the price is right.

Really?

 

The model equivilant- and detail equivilant- of a 1500pt HE army from mantic- $80 Compare- 1500pts of 8th edition HEs- using the same setup- $282

 

The starter set for a PP army- $50 Compare- Battleforce- $90, cant field a legal force in most cases.

 

A full PP army- $150 for everything most players want. Compare- $150 for a starter army of most races, $400+ for a full tournament army with a couple options.

 

Price of a Mythiccast Thunderwolf Set (5 wolves)- $73. Compare- Canis $42 for one, 210 for 5.

 

Now, tell me again how theyre not 'markedly cheaper' than GW.

 

The thing with all those with exception to the TWC, is they do not belong to the game we want to play.

 

So if you want to play a scifi or fantasy game, there are plenty of cheaper alternatives.

 

If you want to play GW, then it does come done to pay or don't play. Whether you are paying them, a retailer, or even Ebay (since they did get the initial investment).

[the jeske]

dude but you do understand that the way they work with their price plan drives people away and that a game build around "lets hope this way we get another batch of new players , that will leave next year " is kind of a bad for the future of the game ?

 

 

The thing with all those with exception to the TWC, is they do not belong to the game we want to play.

just like space birds and apes for DE or GK or demons as a whole [what do those have to do with a sci fi setting ?] . You think they dont belong to the game , but they are an interesting unit with interesting rules that gives more options to SW players . Would you rather have a codex like this . SW lord options . Bike ... power weapon... power fist .... end of options ?

 

 

 

Some crap on BoLS about the wolves being close to game-breakingly points efficient.

at how many points , in what style of scenarioes against what armies . Besides BoLS is US mostly arent most games in the US 2k or more ? TWC can be unbalanced in 1k or 1500 , when KP is only thing people play and even then not against all builds .

 

 

Matt Ward is a genius compare to that.

only they were in the fluff since 2ed . not at as mounts but they were in the fluff. Unlike GK doing blood rituals to stop the influence of a god focused on blood and blood rituals .

 

 

You want to know why they do it ? because SW are popular . A lot of people start or play with the army this means they have to convert/counts as models [and if they want to play in Shops or tournaments they cant use those from other firms] , this means they buy more models and when the SW sells stop droping they will give new legal TWC models , so everyone that still wants to use them will have to buy even more models .

 

they did the same with BAs just to make one example . people bought valks en mass , then new Storm kit comes out .

 

 

 

I'm not comparing to forge world pricing, as that is in a leaugue of it's own.

I hope your not implying that FW casts are of a high standard [compering to other non mass producted model ranges] .

[Grey Mage]

If you think it's too expensive, get out. Simple as that. It's not like the other minature game are markedly cheaper than GW's, so I have to say the price is right.

Really?

 

The model equivilant- and detail equivilant- of a 1500pt HE army from mantic- $80 Compare- 1500pts of 8th edition HEs- using the same setup- $282

 

The starter set for a PP army- $50 Compare- Battleforce- $90, cant field a legal force in most cases.

 

A full PP army- $150 for everything most players want. Compare- $150 for a starter army of most races, $400+ for a full tournament army with a couple options.

 

Price of a Mythiccast Thunderwolf Set (5 wolves)- $73. Compare- Canis $42 for one, 210 for 5.

 

Now, tell me again how theyre not 'markedly cheaper' than GW.

 

The thing with all those with exception to the TWC, is they do not belong to the game we want to play.

 

So if you want to play a scifi or fantasy game, there are plenty of cheaper alternatives.

 

If you want to play GW, then it does come done to pay or don't play. Whether you are paying them, a retailer, or even Ebay (since they did get the initial investment).

They could.

 

Believe it or not there was a time when GW didnt require 100% GW minis, even in their own stores.

 

In fact... are you sitting down?.... the actively encouraged converting up whatever you could get your hands on, from any company or source to make something cool for the universe!

 

So the idea that 'well those arent 40k so they dont count' is absolute rubbish.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

They could.

 

Believe it or not there was a time when GW didnt require 100% GW minis, even in their own stores.

 

In fact... are you sitting down?.... the actively encouraged converting up whatever you could get your hands on, from any company or source to make something cool for the universe!

 

So the idea that 'well those arent 40k so they dont count' is absolute rubbish.

 

Yeah, but then you go to a tourney, and get told 'go away' at the door. Sucks, but them is the breaks with 40k. In friendly games, people usually don't care (I'd actually give your props for converting/proxying, there are only so many first-born children I can sacrifice when I buy my box sets), but in a competitive tourny, even the most laid-back require that you use GW gear, and only GW gear.

[Grey Mage]

They could.

 

Believe it or not there was a time when GW didnt require 100% GW minis, even in their own stores.

 

In fact... are you sitting down?.... the actively encouraged converting up whatever you could get your hands on, from any company or source to make something cool for the universe!

 

So the idea that 'well those arent 40k so they dont count' is absolute rubbish.

 

Yeah, but then you go to a tourney, and get told 'go away' at the door. Sucks, but them is the breaks with 40k. In friendly games, people usually don't care (I'd actually give your props for converting/proxying, there are only so many first-born children I can sacrifice when I buy my box sets), but in a competitive tourny, even the most laid-back require that you use GW gear, and only GW gear.

No no... your not listening. Games Workshop used to allow REAPER minis in its tournaments. And they used to advertise in White Dwarf. At their stores you could bring in other companies minis.

 

And frankly, at any LGS Ive played at theyre more sticklers for being painted than GW.

[Mordrak]

Quote:

dude but you do understand that the way they work with their price plan drives people away and that a game build around "lets hope this way we get another batch of new players , that will leave next year " is kind of a bad for the future of the game ?

 

I think that is an un-fair comment. Yes GW are more expensive than their competitors but look at their casting quality compared to those competitors, especially the likes of SW, BA and GK...the quantity of parts and the quality of sculpt and reproduction are much better than the likes of mantic who are cheaper.

If you want to play the GW tournament scene then yes GW state you must use (i think it's around) 75% of their parts to make conversions, however if your're playing un-official tournament scene (check with the organisers) or friendly games at your local club or with your mates I see no reason why you cant use the models and parts you deem most suitable for the model you wish to create whoever the production company may be...

In short the argument is far from pay or don't play but more pay if you want silverware

 

Quote:

Some crap on BoLS about the wolves being close to game-breakingly points efficient.

at how many points , in what style of scenarioes against what armies . Besides BoLS is US mostly arent most games in the US 2k or more ? TWC can be unbalanced in 1k or 1500 , when KP is only thing people play and even then not against all builds .

 

Coming from the UK I find that the American play style is very different from what we play here in Europe. The meta game in America seems to be more about the smaller units led by a large HQ/Troop unit heavily kitted out...in this sense then wolves can be extremely efficient...however here in the UK we seem to have a different meta and play style in that we will take larger units and try to keep our HQ's etc cheaper than our American counterparts.

This is not a bash at our American friends just merely an observation at how our 2 play styles (on a very broad average) vary, also I hope this explains BOLS' post about the wolves.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

I hope your not implying that FW casts are of a high standard [compering to other non mass producted model ranges] .

 

 

Nope, that would be about pricing. Crazy pricing.

[Grimtooth]

If you think it's too expensive, get out. Simple as that. It's not like the other minature game are markedly cheaper than GW's, so I have to say the price is right.

Really?

 

The model equivilant- and detail equivilant- of a 1500pt HE army from mantic- $80 Compare- 1500pts of 8th edition HEs- using the same setup- $282

 

The starter set for a PP army- $50 Compare- Battleforce- $90, cant field a legal force in most cases.

 

A full PP army- $150 for everything most players want. Compare- $150 for a starter army of most races, $400+ for a full tournament army with a couple options.

 

Price of a Mythiccast Thunderwolf Set (5 wolves)- $73. Compare- Canis $42 for one, 210 for 5.

 

Now, tell me again how theyre not 'markedly cheaper' than GW.

 

The thing with all those with exception to the TWC, is they do not belong to the game we want to play.

 

So if you want to play a scifi or fantasy game, there are plenty of cheaper alternatives.

 

If you want to play GW, then it does come done to pay or don't play. Whether you are paying them, a retailer, or even Ebay (since they did get the initial investment).

They could.

 

Believe it or not there was a time when GW didnt require 100% GW minis, even in their own stores.

 

In fact... are you sitting down?.... the actively encouraged converting up whatever you could get your hands on, from any company or source to make something cool for the universe!

 

So the idea that 'well those arent 40k so they dont count' is absolute rubbish.

 

Since I started playing in 2000, it was not that way.

 

However, why does this trend offend you? You go to a movie, the theater does not want you to bring your own cheap popcorn, so that if you want popcorn, you have to buy it from them. How is it different that if you want to play their game, that they kinda make the point that you should be playing it with their models?

[Malleuss]

While the OP might be a bit dramatic, you are paying 35$ for 5 Marines. That's pricey. 35$ for half a core unit is even pricier still. No matter what extra bits and bobs you get, you are still buying just 5 Marines.

 

The only way to make the most of these boxes is to buy a box of Tactical Marines along with it, for example. Somehow, that just seems like a failure to me.

 

I love the GK kits, I've already bought about 7 or 8 or them, but I get a pretty nice discount. I also have legs lying around, older torsos around, etc. This isn't cool, though, at the end of the day, which is what I think is frustrating the OP.

[Grey Mage]

If you think it's too expensive, get out. Simple as that. It's not like the other minature game are markedly cheaper than GW's, so I have to say the price is right.

Really?

 

The model equivilant- and detail equivilant- of a 1500pt HE army from mantic- $80 Compare- 1500pts of 8th edition HEs- using the same setup- $282

 

The starter set for a PP army- $50 Compare- Battleforce- $90, cant field a legal force in most cases.

 

A full PP army- $150 for everything most players want. Compare- $150 for a starter army of most races, $400+ for a full tournament army with a couple options.

 

Price of a Mythiccast Thunderwolf Set (5 wolves)- $73. Compare- Canis $42 for one, 210 for 5.

 

Now, tell me again how theyre not 'markedly cheaper' than GW.

 

The thing with all those with exception to the TWC, is they do not belong to the game we want to play.

 

So if you want to play a scifi or fantasy game, there are plenty of cheaper alternatives.

 

If you want to play GW, then it does come done to pay or don't play. Whether you are paying them, a retailer, or even Ebay (since they did get the initial investment).

They could.

 

Believe it or not there was a time when GW didnt require 100% GW minis, even in their own stores.

 

In fact... are you sitting down?.... the actively encouraged converting up whatever you could get your hands on, from any company or source to make something cool for the universe!

 

So the idea that 'well those arent 40k so they dont count' is absolute rubbish.

 

Since I started playing in 2000, it was not that way.

 

However, why does this trend offend you? You go to a movie, the theater does not want you to bring your own cheap popcorn, so that if you want popcorn, you have to buy it from them. How is it different that if you want to play their game, that they kinda make the point that you should be playing it with their models?

Because, its killing the hobby in my town.

 

If GWs prices go up, I wont buy as much- and thats become the case. It also means other people dont buy as much, or at all. The changes at my LGS have brought alot of players out of the woodwork... and there still isnt as many players as there were four years ago. Most commonly cited reason?

 

"I couldnt afford it anymore, so I sold most of my stuff." Atleast many of them still have an army... somewhere. Sometimes its just a couple of models.

 

Most common reason a new person doesnt join?

 

"Thats a really cool game, but theres no way I can drop 400 bucks on it." Some of them have a unit or two... and will never have more.

 

And, for the record- high ticket prices are likewise killing the theatres in my town. People just arent as interested- we had one close a couple years ago, the 3plex. The 6 plex recently cut their prices in half if you buy ahead of time to get people to start coming back.

 

So it offends me because:

1] Its unnecessary. Theres no reason for them to raise prices during a recession. Even if metals have gone up the last two years, that doesnt explain the plastics going up at the rate they have been.

 

2] It doesnt cost me cash as much as it costs me opponents. No players, no game. No hobby.

 

3] It marginalizes me. Im unlikely to have 70 bucks sitting around on a given week to pick up a new kit.

 

Usually I have about 30 bucks at a time that I can spend. Used to be that meant Id pick up a new unit every couple of weeks, skipping now and again for a set of books or an RPG book. Now? If I want something its every second month- wich means Im spending less over all, showing my support less overall, and that hurts GW and me and my LGS. No one wins in this equation.

 

Why should I be happy with a no-win situation? Why should I not be offended at stupidity thats eating my hobby away like an acid.

 

But how about we flip this thing around for a moment Ramses- Why would you support them raising the prices and thus reducing their customer base? How do you see that doing anything but hurting GW in the short and long?

[Grimtooth]

If you think it's too expensive, get out. Simple as that. It's not like the other minature game are markedly cheaper than GW's, so I have to say the price is right.

Really?

 

The model equivilant- and detail equivilant- of a 1500pt HE army from mantic- $80 Compare- 1500pts of 8th edition HEs- using the same setup- $282

 

The starter set for a PP army- $50 Compare- Battleforce- $90, cant field a legal force in most cases.

 

A full PP army- $150 for everything most players want. Compare- $150 for a starter army of most races, $400+ for a full tournament army with a couple options.

 

Price of a Mythiccast Thunderwolf Set (5 wolves)- $73. Compare- Canis $42 for one, 210 for 5.

 

Now, tell me again how theyre not 'markedly cheaper' than GW.

 

The thing with all those with exception to the TWC, is they do not belong to the game we want to play.

 

So if you want to play a scifi or fantasy game, there are plenty of cheaper alternatives.

 

If you want to play GW, then it does come done to pay or don't play. Whether you are paying them, a retailer, or even Ebay (since they did get the initial investment).

They could.

 

Believe it or not there was a time when GW didnt require 100% GW minis, even in their own stores.

 

In fact... are you sitting down?.... the actively encouraged converting up whatever you could get your hands on, from any company or source to make something cool for the universe!

 

So the idea that 'well those arent 40k so they dont count' is absolute rubbish.

 

Since I started playing in 2000, it was not that way.

 

However, why does this trend offend you? You go to a movie, the theater does not want you to bring your own cheap popcorn, so that if you want popcorn, you have to buy it from them. How is it different that if you want to play their game, that they kinda make the point that you should be playing it with their models?

Because, its killing the hobby in my town.

 

If GWs prices go up, I wont buy as much- and thats become the case. It also means other people dont buy as much, or at all. The changes at my LGS have brought alot of players out of the woodwork... and there still isnt as many players as there were four years ago. Most commonly cited reason?

 

"I couldnt afford it anymore, so I sold most of my stuff." Atleast many of them still have an army... somewhere. Sometimes its just a couple of models.

 

Most common reason a new person doesnt join?

 

"Thats a really cool game, but theres no way I can drop 400 bucks on it." Some of them have a unit or two... and will never have more.

 

And, for the record- high ticket prices are likewise killing the theatres in my town. People just arent as interested- we had one close a couple years ago, the 3plex. The 6 plex recently cut their prices in half if you buy ahead of time to get people to start coming back.

 

So it offends me because:

1] Its unnecessary. Theres no reason for them to raise prices during a recession. Even if metals have gone up the last two years, that doesnt explain the plastics going up at the rate they have been.

 

2] It doesnt cost me cash as much as it costs me opponents. No players, no game. No hobby.

 

3] It marginalizes me. Im unlikely to have 70 bucks sitting around on a given week to pick up a new kit.

 

Usually I have about 30 bucks at a time that I can spend. Used to be that meant Id pick up a new unit every couple of weeks, skipping now and again for a set of books or an RPG book. Now? If I want something its every second month- wich means Im spending less over all, showing my support less overall, and that hurts GW and me and my LGS. No one wins in this equation.

 

Why should I be happy with a no-win situation? Why should I not be offended at stupidity thats eating my hobby away like an acid.

 

But how about we flip this thing around for a moment Ramses- Why would you support them raising the prices and thus reducing their customer base? How do you see that doing anything but hurting GW in the short and long?

 

Gw is hurting you. They don't appear to be hurting too bad at all it seems;

 

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchang...718474GBGBXSSQ3

 

Even in a down economy, seems like that stock price is trending upward. But it is their business model that is bad right? Maybe just bad for you.

[the jeske]

But it is their business model that is bad right?

you know they have been cuttting costs , rising prices a lot more then in the 90s , droping the number of employes etc and they still are in red for the last few years ? So no they are not doing good.

And at least in main land europe they are gradualy losing parts of their market to other firms .

 

 

And as GW hurting one person goes . I dont know how the states tournaments attandence looked a few years ago , but at the high times of 3.5-4th ed the tournaments in main land europe[the bigger ones] were 1/3 bigger . Some local tournaments are gone[local as in 50-60 people] and almost no new ones spawned in their place . It is not a question of one or two people losing their playgroups , that happened always , but w40k/WFB communities dieing out .

 

Do you know what happened to WFB gamers when Ward made the demon dex and it more or less destroyed both the tournament and casual game play ? PP made a huge move in with their products because not all WFB players wanted to switch over to LotR or w40k .

[Prathios]

*SNIP*

 

Gw is hurting you. They don't appear to be hurting too bad at all it seems;

 

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchang...718474GBGBXSSQ3

 

Even in a down economy, seems like that stock price is trending upward. But it is their business model that is bad right? Maybe just bad for you.

 

Your stock quote might be valid if they were not making money off the video game industry. GW is making a lot of money off THQ. So I don't think looking at stock prices tells your story.

[Grey Mage]

Gw is hurting you. They don't appear to be hurting too bad at all it seems;

 

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchang...718474GBGBXSSQ3

 

Even in a down economy, seems like that stock price is trending upward. But it is their business model that is bad right? Maybe just bad for you.

Wow Ramses, that may very well be the rudest way youve ever put something to me, and you still managed to not answer my question or invalidate my point of a declining player base.

 

Im kind of shocked. Usually your both inciteful and polite.

 

Especially since your wrong. Stock Prices are 'trending up' at the moment- form a decade low at the end of 4rth edition when they were alienating their player base- and about a year and half after their cleansing of online retailers. (wich saw a huge stock drop). The stock is just now spiking back to its 2006 days, and theyre down this quarter (on average) by 55pts, or 14% of their highest value ever for those who are not into stocks.

 

Historically, GW does indeed spike during major releases and edition changes. They also seem to stay steady when videogames come out, for about six months. Looking at their pattern for the last ten years, their stock is about to drop a bit farther still, until buoyed by a new release.

 

Infact... whats measured up to better stock prices in the last 3 years? 5th edition (wich pulled them out of a 7 year low at 118). DoW II. Closing down the majority of their mall stores and cutting a good portion of their staff in other places. A large grant by the british government for expansion into new plastics. 8th edition fantasy.... with massive spikes during the two week periods directly next to a major codex release. 2nd waves are barely noticeable, and every price hike is joined to a prolonged drop (read: june) wich is followed a month later by a spike from a major release.

 

That doesnt sound like a healthy investment.