GW Hates GK Players...

[HunterEste]

If you think it's too expensive, get out. Simple as that. It's not like the other minature game are markedly cheaper than GW's, so I have to say the price is right.

Really?

 

The model equivilant- and detail equivilant- of a 1500pt HE army from mantic- $80 Compare- 1500pts of 8th edition HEs- using the same setup- $282

 

The starter set for a PP army- $50 Compare- Battleforce- $90, cant field a legal force in most cases.

 

A full PP army- $150 for everything most players want. Compare- $150 for a starter army of most races, $400+ for a full tournament army with a couple options.

 

Price of a Mythiccast Thunderwolf Set (5 wolves)- $73. Compare- Canis $42 for one, 210 for 5.

 

Now, tell me again how theyre not 'markedly cheaper' than GW.

 

This type of argument drives me crazy. It's the same argument as, if you don't like your president get out of the country. Hoping things change and productively talking about it is not a sin. I think it's too expensive and I want the price to come down. Views like Cpt Blood Donator make it sound like he wants to pay more. Then by all means Cpt Blood, start sending GW charity checks in the mail so you can give them even more.

 

I said I am willing to pay what they charge. What you are doing is projecting your on views into my opinion. This is probably the rudest thing anyone has ever written to me on this board, so kudos to you. There is a huge difference between living in a country and playing with expensive plastic toys and dice, you chose the other. Live with it, and have the decency to judge people's comments by what they say rather than what you can project into it.

 

Because I assume you don't have the money to pay for GW's products as they are too expensive for you? Oh no, that's not what you wrote, but watch me reading that out of it.

 

You do realize, you are doing the same thing to his opinion...right? Two wrongs don't make a right.

But really, the amount of rudeness and bad attitude in this thread is staggering. You don't need to get snarky or rude to argue your point. That goes for all sides of the argument at hand.

 

Some of the GW stuff seems a touch expensive...it just means I have to pick my purchases carefully :P

I cringe when I see a price increase, but; the GW models are some of the highest quality miniatures I've had the pleasure of assembling/painting. If you feel it's too expensive, check out ebay or some of the online retailers that you have to call to place your orders for. You might get lucky and be able to snag the kit you've had your eyes on for 20% off or more!

[Prathios]

This is why I've backed off of this discussion. Grey Mage has being arguing it very well, I've seen little reason to help him from my side of the viewpoint, and I feel I made a justified case that if already ignored is pointless to continue. That and being told I was the rudest anyone's ever been to someone was, frankly, off putting. Especially since I was responding to what I felt like was an incredibly rude post. My response was not meant to be rude at all, so I suppose it's all eye of the beholder. But the vitriolic nature of the defense in this argument has been very frustrating, I've felt like zero respect has been given in this thread to anyone. I tend to have very well mannered debates with people but when my opinion is not respected I tend to fall to the trap of pulling my respect from those doing it. This leads into a spiral that nobody comes out of unharmed. So, best to let it go and move on than continue to allow myself to be drug down.

[breng77]

The starter set for a PP army- $50 Compare- Battleforce- $90, cant field a legal force in most cases.

 

A full PP army- $150 for everything most players want. Compare- $150 for a starter army of most races, $400+ for a full tournament army with a couple options.

 

The problem with this comparison is that they are not the same scale of game. There are PP starters with 3 models in them for $50, those models have no options, because no upgrades exist in the system. So 3 models for $50 is good, but 5 for $33 is bad? This is called a double standard. Do PP models cost so much more to make? NO, but it is ok because I only need 15 models to play the entire game. I mean I play Wm and Hordes but, really saying that the models are better priced is silly they are priced the same (or more) for what you get, you just need less of them. I agree I wish GW would lower prices, it might even be better for their sales, but to compare to a smaller scale game is silly. I can get a chess board for $5 so all of these games are overpriced.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

This is why I've backed off of this discussion. Grey Mage has being arguing it very well, I've seen little reason to help him from my side of the viewpoint, and I feel I made a justified case that if already ignored is pointless to continue. That and being told I was the rudest anyone's ever been to someone was, frankly, off putting. Especially since I was responding to what I felt like was an incredibly rude post. My response was not meant to be rude at all, so I suppose it's all eye of the beholder. But the vitriolic nature of the defense in this argument has been very frustrating, I've felt like zero respect has been given in this thread to anyone. I tend to have very well mannered debates with people but when my opinion is not respected I tend to fall to the trap of pulling my respect from those doing it. This leads into a spiral that nobody comes out of unharmed. So, best to let it go and move on than continue to allow myself to be drug down.

 

Nor was I trying to be rude. I just forgot to articualte properly and came off as an elitist prick. For that I am sorry, and I now understand where you came from as well. Let's keep this place clean to the best of our ability, and keep those tempers we all occasionally have in cages.

[RolandTHTG]

So it offends me because:

1] Its unnecessary. Theres no reason for them to raise prices during a recession. Even if metals have gone up the last two years, that doesnt explain the plastics going up at the rate they have been.

 

You have seen the price of gas at the pumps, yes? The price of a barrel of crude has doubled in the last two years. Unfortunately, the costs of everything (raw materials, shipping, etc) has been going up during this recession.

 

While I agree with some of your other points, as the intro costs to the hobby have kept one of my friends from starting it up, I can't blame them for what appear to be material related price hikes. Complaining about some of the other aspects, such as cheapening ppm or reduced models/box so that more models are required is fair, but purely material price related changes can't be blamed on them.

[Grey Mage]

The starter set for a PP army- $50 Compare- Battleforce- $90, cant field a legal force in most cases.

 

A full PP army- $150 for everything most players want. Compare- $150 for a starter army of most races, $400+ for a full tournament army with a couple options.

 

The problem with this comparison is that they are not the same scale of game. There are PP starters with 3 models in them for $50, those models have no options, because no upgrades exist in the system. So 3 models for $50 is good, but 5 for $33 is bad? This is called a double standard. Do PP models cost so much more to make? NO, but it is ok because I only need 15 models to play the entire game. I mean I play Wm and Hordes but, really saying that the models are better priced is silly they are priced the same (or more) for what you get, you just need less of them. I agree I wish GW would lower prices, it might even be better for their sales, but to compare to a smaller scale game is silly. I can get a chess board for $5 so all of these games are overpriced.

2 Models the size of a Dreadnaught an a Hero thats as detailed as any of the GW generic HQs we have.... thats going to run a 40k player 100, 120 bucks. I dont think the comparison is a bad one at all.

 

And the fact remains that when ones buddy asks 'so, whats it cost to get into this kick-ass new game youve shown me?' you can tell him 50 bucks will get him playing whatever group he wants really.

 

So it offends me because:

1] Its unnecessary. Theres no reason for them to raise prices during a recession. Even if metals have gone up the last two years, that doesnt explain the plastics going up at the rate they have been.

 

You have seen the price of gas at the pumps, yes? The price of a barrel of crude has doubled in the last two years. Unfortunately, the costs of everything (raw materials, shipping, etc) has been going up during this recession.

 

While I agree with some of your other points, as the intro costs to the hobby have kept one of my friends from starting it up, I can't blame them for what appear to be material related price hikes. Complaining about some of the other aspects, such as cheapening ppm or reduced models/box so that more models are required is fair, but purely material price related changes can't be blamed on them.

The price of crude has gone up, significantly- and the share of overhead that they pay for their plastic has probly gone up somewhat aswell. Comparing it to other manufacturers of plastic goods though- lego, playmobil, PP, mantic, and fischer-price - their prices have gone up faster, more reliably, and with little real link to the price of oil. Indeed, it would appear to me that GWs price increases reflect the UKs minimum wage increases more closely than that of oil but I may be missing something.

[breng77]

2 Models the size of a Dreadnaught an a Hero thats as detailed as any of the GW generic HQs we have.... thats going to run a 40k player 100, 120 bucks. I dont think the comparison is a bad one at all.

 

And the fact remains that when ones buddy asks 'so, whats it cost to get into this kick-ass new game youve shown me?' you can tell him 50 bucks will get him playing whatever group he wants really.

 

Except they are not quite the size of dreads, nor do they come with any options for modeling them differently. If we are going that way Assault on Black reach is a way better buy than the PP starters, you get all the templates you need, dice, a full rulebook, and 2 sets of models (though only the orks have 2 troop choices, but you get 46 models).

 

I do agree that if you are trying to get people into a game $50 is much easier to convince them to spend. The difference is that they are not the same type of game, it is like comparing say Figure Skating to Hockey, both need skates, but to play hockey, you need a stick and pads, and goals, so it will cost more. It is one of the reasons I like having multiple armies, so I can get friends into the game for $0 out of their own pocket, then if they really like it over time they can buy their own stuff. I mean even Privateer stuff is not really cheap if they get into the game and find that they don't like the game.

[d@n]

You have to think about space on the sprue aswell, there's nothing bigger then an axe or pair pof legs in the spacewolves box were as in the grey knight one you have halberts and heavy weapons.

[the jeske]

I mean even Privateer stuff is not really cheap if they get into the game and find that they don't like the game.

want to compere the cost of most costly [but optimal] builds for both warmahords and w40k/wfb at the points the games are played normaly ? A skirmish game will always cost less . And as options go . Warmahorde builds out of different casters can be a lot more different the what is played lets say in w40k[more then half of all armies are sm ] . game play difference between some armies [lets say chaos and SW, or DA RW and sm khan/cpt builds] is that are simiular or the same in game play come down to , new army better rules . Warmachine has more then a few casters for jack hvy builds , they are very different .

 

 

 

you get all the templates you need, dice, a full rulebook, and 2 sets of models (though only the orks have 2 troop choices, but you get 46 models).

and yet with the starter set you can play with 1-2 soloes or a unit of infantry your ready to go for normal play . now try to play black reach or even an battle force . even the sw one which is great gives you 1/3 of an army .

[breng77]

I'm not going to argue that 40k is going to come out cheaper, as a game than the Privateer stuff, only that per model (which come with options, privateer stuff comes stock for the model the model does not have any options, save the resin jack kits which make different jacks, but you cannot take one Jack and give it different weapons other than what it starts with) you spend about the same, the fact that you need fewer models makes the game cheaper overall. If all you want is a miniature game, then privateer press stuff is cheaper, but it is not the same type of game as 40k or Fantasy. Per model, Black reach is a better deal than the PP starters, for what you need to play the game, the PP stuff is a better deal.

 

Warmahorde builds out of different casters can be a lot more different the what is played lets say in w40k[more then half of all armies are sm ]

 

Even if you lump the SM armies together 40k still has more factions than either WM or Hordes, but PP was smart and made the games compatible, unlike 40k and Fantasy (which I think has more Factions than Warmahordes combined). But when I was talking options I meant for modeling purposes (which is what costs money when you buy models), Warmahorde models come with stock equipment, and come in single poses (for the most part).

 

I agree Warmahordes is cheaper, but it is a different type of game and not at all the same experience you get from playing a game of 40k. NOt worse, not better, but different, and if it is not what you want spending $200ish on an army is still not inexpensive.

 

So am I to take it that it is ok for PP to charge the same price as GW because you need fewer models so the overall game is cheaper, even though model production costs are about the same?

[Drahazar]

PP is very expensive if I am going to play a Skirmish game it would be Heavy Gear wich they have options for there gears and are to scale or Infinity they are better than PP anyway. As for GW I will still play but will be getting my stuff from ebay or when there are 20 to 30% off deals otherwise I will select what I nead after I save up for it. The cost of real world stuff is first and the GW stuff has great minis but I just can't keep buying like I used to there products.