Blood Fists vs. Blood Talons?

[1Drop]

Oh, btw... the Sanguinor, priest and BT DC dreads is pretty awesome. It kinda crosses a threshold in mathhammer wounds where the average wounds done is close to 10 vs MEQ. Not many MEQ units are bigger than that...

 

what fist?

 

I was talking about dual blood fist VS. blood fist and frag cannon on a furioso and I was asking BO but really just engaging anyone who has an opinion on the matter!

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Keep in mind a Blood Talon dread is more fragile then a Blood Fist dread. A single Immob, Wep Destroyed, wrecked or Explodes stops it for good. Where as only Immob, Wrecked and Explodes really hurts a Blood fist dread.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

Keep in mind a Blood Talon dread is more fragile then a Blood Fist dread. A single Immob, Wep Destroyed, wrecked or Explodes stops it for good. Where as only Immob, Wrecked and Explodes really hurts a Blood fist dread.

 

It still has a couple of attacks with re-rolls, not too shabby.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Keep in mind a Blood Talon dread is more fragile then a Blood Fist dread. A single Immob, Wep Destroyed, wrecked or Explodes stops it for good. Where as only Immob, Wrecked and Explodes really hurts a Blood fist dread.

 

It still has a couple of attacks with re-rolls, not too shabby.

 

But not great. You've more or less gotten rid of the whole point of Blood talons with it. Where as a Blood Fist dread is just about as good against its targets iwth just one arm.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

Forgetting all about math-hammer and situational uses, the most important part about talon dreads is that they are fire magnets of epic proportions.

A D.C dread goes for 125 points, and people are usually stupid enough to keep shooting at them from turn 1 if they start on the board (because, who want to shoot missiles at RAS?).

I've used two of them (proxied) starting on the board. Pop smoke launchers, watch them absorb all manner of fire.

 

I think they will be great against GK, who really can't ignore them in any way. Sure, they have strenght 10 hammers, but what does that matter when the dread will eat 8 of them in a charge?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Would you say dual fists is better or 1 fist and frag cannon? I wanna build a furioso but not sure whether to go frag and fist or 2 fists!

 

I would definitely consider running the frag cannon. It's pretty awesome.

 

G :)

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

Would you say dual fists is better or 1 fist and frag cannon? I wanna build a furioso but not sure whether to go frag and fist or 2 fists!

 

I would definitely consider running the frag cannon. It's pretty awesome.

 

G ;)

 

I second that. At first I thought it was crap, the I looked closer and notice it shot twice. Aye caramba.

[1Drop]

Would you say dual fists is better or 1 fist and frag cannon? I wanna build a furioso but not sure whether to go frag and fist or 2 fists!

 

I would definitely consider running the frag cannon. It's pretty awesome.

 

G ;)

 

Thanks.. I wanna build a furioso just cos I love the model really but I like the idea of opening something up with my furisoso then tearing the contents apart with my DC with blood talons or maybe a second furioso with talons.. I'd love to run a dreanaught heavy list sometime, it would be awesome.

[MadGreek]

Yeah, the unique loadouts is what makes them so good. The wound allocation shenanigans game is very powerful and makes it especially difficult to remove models with 2 wounds and unique kit for each one, which is why ID weapons win.

 

We can do it with our VV too, it helps, but it's just not as good when you don't have the 2 wounds per model like nobs and twc.

 

This is confusing me. Surely the use of the term unique in the wound allocation rules means a model with the unique description in its profile (Dante, Corbulo, Mephiston, etc) NOT to models that all have unique equipment loadouts. Vanguard Vets are not unique models just cause they take differant gear. So in the example given earlier 6 wounds allocated properly would still be 3 kills - 3 whole models - not 1 kill and 4 wounds.

 

I think I am right on this, but let me know.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Bloodfists are the way to go versus TWC,

 

G :o

[Red Fury]

Surely the use of the term unique in the wound allocation rules means a model with the unique description in its profile (Dante, Corbulo, Mephiston, etc) NOT to models that all have unique equipment loadouts. Vanguard Vets are not unique models just cause they take differant gear. So in the example given earlier 6 wounds allocated properly would still be 3 kills - 3 whole models - not 1 kill and 4 wounds.

So if you scored two wounds on a squad of 5 guys, who all have different kit, and then the saves are failed, who would you remove? Just leave it up to the opponent? No, this is exactly the same as how you allocate wounds to your tactical squad and roll separately for the sarg, heavy and special weapons with just the standard bolter guys getting grouped together.

 

Or to look at it a different way, if you have a VV squad all with different weapons (pf on one, lc on another, bp/chainsword, pw, thunder hammer, another with a stormshield) and you take 2 wounds, how do you use the stormshield? You have to allocate wounds based on kit.

 

On the other hand, the VV sarge with a pw is 'game wise' (same kit, same stats) the same as any VVet with a pw and would get grouped together for wound allocation. Unless, of course he gets the Sanguinors blessing, then he is unique.

 

Bloodfists are the way to go versus TWC

Indeed.

[SamaNagol]

Vindicators are the way to go versus TWC,

 

Fixed

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Long Fangs can blast Vindis off the table. I prefer to destroy the enemy up close and personal. It's the Blood Angel way.

 

G

[SamaNagol]

Err... Furioso Dreadnoughts have the exact same front armour as a Vindicator.

[Firedrake28]

Err... Furioso Dreadnoughts have the exact same front armour as a Vindicator.

 

You can get cover an awful lot easier with Dreadnoughts than Vindicators, though. Oh, and Drop Pods.

[SamaNagol]

Not really, no. The front on shadow of a vindicator is smaller than a dreadnought. Getting Obscured on it is simple.

 

Don't know what Drop Pods have to do with anything either, aside from another easy kill point.

[Firedrake28]

Not really, no. The front on shadow of a vindicator is smaller than a dreadnought. Getting Obscured on it is simple.

 

Don't know what Drop Pods have to do with anything either, aside from another easy kill point.

 

Vindicators have extremely long sides though, so it's easy for an opponent to see more than half of the model.

 

And my point with Drop Pods was that you can get Dreadnoughts up closer with them rather than walking them.

 

That being said I don't even use Furiosos.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

The vindis biggest problem is that it takes a single weapon destroyed, then it's out of the game.

[1Drop]

The vindis biggest problem is that it takes a single weapon destroyed, then it's out of the game.

 

You can still ram the ;) out of something though, that works.

 

Ha,ha, you just hate vindis don't you!?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I use a SR to stick my Furioso into melee - very effective it is. ;)

 

G ;)

[SamaNagol]

Drop Pods just make it easier to run round and Meltagun the Furioso in the back. I walk mine behind Razorbacks and Vindicators.

 

Have started using one in my list along with Mephiston and they both act as guardians of my mobile gun columns to dissuade people to try and assault them.

[1Drop]

Drop Pods just make it easier to run round and Meltagun the Furioso in the back. I walk mine behind Razorbacks and Vindicators.

 

Have started using one in my list along with Mephiston and they both act as guardians of my mobile gun columns to dissuade people to try and assault them.

 

Ha,ha, that's a plan, I can imagine someone trying to get the rear of your tanks and gets smacked down by mephiston then picked up and hurtled back over the top of the vehicles and crashes down onto an enemy vehicle. (on that note I wish someone would make some 40k animation or something, my bro showed me some footage from a game with a furioso heavy flamering some eldar in the face.. It was all extremely accurate with warp spiders and stuff and then our RAS Sarg gets impaled by a lictor, that was really cool, they should make an animated movie like that)

[MadGreek]

Surely the use of the term unique in the wound allocation rules means a model with the unique description in its profile (Dante, Corbulo, Mephiston, etc) NOT to models that all have unique equipment loadouts. Vanguard Vets are not unique models just cause they take differant gear. So in the example given earlier 6 wounds allocated properly would still be 3 kills - 3 whole models - not 1 kill and 4 wounds.

So if you scored two wounds on a squad of 5 guys, who all have different kit, and then the saves are failed, who would you remove? Just leave it up to the opponent? No, this is exactly the same as how you allocate wounds to your tactical squad and roll separately for the sarg, heavy and special weapons with just the standard bolter guys getting grouped together.

 

Or to look at it a different way, if you have a VV squad all with different weapons (pf on one, lc on another, bp/chainsword, pw, thunder hammer, another with a stormshield) and you take 2 wounds, how do you use the stormshield? You have to allocate wounds based on kit.

 

On the other hand, the VV sarge with a pw is 'game wise' (same kit, same stats) the same as any VVet with a pw and would get grouped together for wound allocation. Unless, of course he gets the Sanguinors blessing, then he is unique.

 

Bloodfists are the way to go versus TWC

Indeed.

 

I stand corrected. I missed the part in the rules about UNITS of multiple wound models. I think the term unique threw me off as well. They are VERY careful not to say unique when discussing normal wound allocation among models with differant gear, and all I thought about was unique CHARACTERS. I found the section of the rules that covers this and am now just a little smarter (just a little). Thanks.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

The vindis biggest problem is that it takes a single weapon destroyed, then it's out of the game.

 

You can still ram the :cuss out of something though, that works.

 

Ha,ha, you just hate vindis don't you!?

 

I don't hate them at all, I have three xD (the good old linebreaker box which was released with Apoc). The things that they do in theory are solid, but it just isn't working. The only success I've had us using all three at once, which gives me pretty much a single shot per turn. Furioso and Death Company dreads do what the vindi is supposed to do better, swat infantry like flies. I'm even willing to say the D.C dread is clearly better, in spite of having range and AV12. I would always run those, even for DoA, but they come with Death Company tax. Death Company tax isn't cool ><-

[shatter]

I don't hate them at all, I have three xD (the good old linebreaker box which was released with Apoc). The things that they do in theory are solid, but it just isn't working. The only success I've had us using all three at once, which gives me pretty much a single shot per turn.

 

It's why I went with whirlwinds. They're almost always firing. A bit gentler on scatter too for danger close.