Force weapons in squads

[Thaelion Hexis]

Whole squads with force weapons. Does the unit count as a single psyker, thus only one enemy model may suffer instant death, or would you count each model even though only one test was done, thus you may inflice the amount of instant deaths equal to the amount of Grey Knights in the combat, or worse the amount of Grey Knights that actually wound.

 

An example would be a squad of Nobs.

 

Scenario 1: 5 Grey Knights vs 5 Nobs. If at least 5 wounds were scored would that count as an instant death from each Knight, or just one instant death? Or would you need to roll each Knight's attacks seperately to make sure only one instant death is made from each model? I would be inclined to agree with the first point.

 

Scenario 2: 5 Grey Knights vs 6 Nobs. By charging, or by the extra attack from the Justicar, Falchions etc, the Grey Knights score 6 wounds on 5 Nobs. Since a model may only inflict one instant death, that would be 5 dead, one wounded, correct?

 

The main question being, do Grey Knights count as a single psyker for inflicting instant death or can each model do it? And if each model can do you still roll as a squad, or do each seperately?

[The Holy Heretic]

Check the Brotherhood of Psykers rule, it has the answers to all your questions B)

[Something Wycked]

Well, its not quite that simple. While Brotherhood of Psykers does answer most of those questions, its still somewhat unclear as to how exactly it works for causing multiple ID's.

 

The rule states that after a multiple wound model suffers an unsaved wound and lives, the squad can test as a whole to activate their force weapons. This would seem that normal wound allocation happened up to that point, but then the rule goes on to state that all wounds inflicted that phase inflict instant death.

 

The best we've been able to come up with is that is how it works; normal attacks and wounds until a multiple wound model takes an unsaved wound and doesn't die. The squad tests to activate their force weapons and from that point on, that one unsaved wound until the end of the assault phase, the entire squad's attacks inflict instant death. This favors differing initiative scores, and is an argument for including a couple Halberds in a squad to inflict an unsaved wound on a multiple wound model so that the swords and hammers striking afterwards all inflict instant death automatically.

[Thaelion Hexis]

I can agree with the squad as a whole. But since Force weapons, according to the rulebook, allow a model to make a single instant death, that would mean in the case of whole squads of multiwound models, you could only inflice the amount of instant deaths equal to the number of Grey Knights, correct? Then each model has done only one. And surely rolling each seperately would be a terrble waste of time.

 

But that's along the lines of squad based master crafting, i.e. Paladins, Vulken led terminators with hammers, since a master craft allows one re-roll, not all.

[BrotherWasted]

Whole squads with force weapons. Does the unit count as a single psyker, thus only one enemy model may suffer instant death, or would you count each model even though only one test was done, thus you may inflice the amount of instant deaths equal to the amount of Grey Knights in the combat, or worse the amount of Grey Knights that actually wound.

 

After you pass the activation test, all wounds caused by the GK squad for that Assault Phase cause instant death. It is really no more complicated than that.

 

An example would be a squad of Nobs.

 

Scenario 1: 5 Grey Knights vs 5 Nobs. If at least 5 wounds were scored would that count as an instant death from each Knight, or just one instant death? Or would you need to roll each Knight's attacks seperately to make sure only one instant death is made from each model? I would be inclined to agree with the first point.

 

You CANNOT roll separately when the models are striking at the same initiative. Take your activation test after scoring your first unsaved wound. If your GKs all have the same initiative, just take the test after finishing your wound rolls. Those 5 wounds caused in the combat will then cause instant death, which means the opponent must remove one model for each ID wound caused. 5 wounds means 5 models gone, so the entire squad is wiped out.

 

Scenario 2: 5 Grey Knights vs 6 Nobs. By charging, or by the extra attack from the Justicar, Falchions etc, the Grey Knights score 6 wounds on 5 Nobs. Since a model may only inflict one instant death, that would be 5 dead, one wounded, correct?

 

No. Nemesis Force Weapon rules specifically state on successful activation, ALL wounds caused by the GK unit that phase cause instant death. You score 6 wounds on 5 Nobs, activate the FWs, and the whole squad is wiped out as per Scenario 1. One model gets removed for each Instant Death wound, it doesn't matter who caused it.

 

The main question being, do Grey Knights count as a single psyker for inflicting instant death or can each model do it? And if each model can do you still roll as a squad, or do each seperately?

 

The squad is a single Psyker for the psychic test. You take a single psychic test, and all wounds inflicted by the unit thereafter then cause Instant Death.

 

 

 

 

I can agree with the squad as a whole. But since Force weapons, according to the rulebook, allow a model to make a single instant death, that would mean in the case of whole squads of multiwound models, you could only inflice the amount of instant deaths equal to the number of Grey Knights, correct? Then each model has done only one. And surely rolling each seperately would be a terrble waste of time.

 

But that's along the lines of squad based master crafting, i.e. Paladins, Vulken led terminators with hammers, since a master craft allows one re-roll, not all.

 

Codex overrides rulebook. Rulebook says one instant death per model, Codex says all wounds caused by your unit inflict instant death. To prove this, let's say for example, I have one Paladin acting alone. He has more than one base attack. Even as a single model unit, he is subject to Brotherhood of Psykers - therefore, if he inflicts more than one wound, and he passes activation, all his wounds still cause instant death.

[Chengar Qordath]

In addition to Brotherhood of Psykers, check the entry for Nemesis Force Weapons in the wargear section. The wargear entry is very clear:

 

If the (psychic) test is passed, all wounds caused by the unit's Nemesis Force Weapons that phase inflict instant death.

[Chairman_woo]

Yup the rules for both nemesis force weapons and brotherhood of psykers are pretty clear.

 

 

*Plays M&S advert music*

 

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