Summoned lesser daemons..

[Brom MKIV]

As the topic says, why does everyone hate on lesser daemons? I can understand greater daemons because they cost you a champion, but lessers? I have been using 3+ units of 8-12 lesser daemons and im always pleased with their performance. When I look at lesser daemons heres what I see:

 

-Minimal investment. For 13 points you get a s4 t4 2 attack daemon who is a non foc troops choice. That's a good deal. 130 pts will net you 10 of these and they dont even need to purchase a transport. thats cheap, even cheaper than a loyalist scout squad which they are comparable to but arguably better than. This brings me to my next point:

 

-Weight of numbers. Its nice to be able to take some of the toys you want and still have enough troops on the board to be intimidating. It also helps to mitigate bad dice rolls.

 

-Expendable is versatile. First let me just say that I know they dont carry ranged weaponry. Yet the fact that they are cheap, a troops choice and can deep strike makes them versatile. Lesser daemons are good at applying additional pressure that your opponent cant easily predict. They are also great tarpits with fearless, 5++ and 2 attacks allowing you to stick a unit until later when you can deal with it. Finally if nothing else they are great at babysitting an objective while your mainline units move on to better things.

 

-Unpredictable and mobile. Its a pseudo mobility for sure but bear with me for a moment. Picture your normal chaos rhinos. Now picture them as assault vehicles with a transport capacity of 20 that can combat squad mid-game. Now lets picture your opponent knowing that all of your rhinos have this potential. Its very hard to allocate resources to deal with a threat when that threat can grow exponentially. This element of surprise alone is sometimes worth the investment.

 

-Unreliable. Sadly we have no means of reserve manipulation. The best way to get around this that I have found is to take several units or what I like to call, invoking the law of averages because my reserve rolls suck.

 

-Not a copy/paste. In the case of lesser daemons some tailoring is required to make sure you get the most out of them. By this I mean strategically placed icons in the army with a plan to go with them. This is probably the biggest issue I have encountered as opponents will try to disrupt your plans and destroy the icons once they have experienced how effective lessers can potentially be.

 

Anyway thats my take on lesser daemons. If you have never tried them out take a chance and go against the grain, you may find you like them.

[Darth Kados]

I ALWAYS take Lesser Daemons!

 

I'm a Word Bearer player but also use Death Guard, Red Corsairs and Slaaneshi Renegades and always make room for a unit (or two) of Daemons and they never do me wrong.

 

My best moment with them was summoning a unit of 10 Lesser Daemons and assaulting a unit of 10 Dire Avengers and a Farseer. the Daemons all survived the combat and killed all the Eldar. Best 130pts I've ever spent!!

[Ubermensch Commander]

Short answer, because its not 3.5 and its not the 2 DP, Lash, Oblit list that many individuals on this forum think is the only way to win.

Of course, that is a far too narrow view, one can see many other ways of using the Chaos Codex in a competitive fashion(Searching Dakka Dakka one can find a few nice tacticas) but folks get stuck in ways of thinking.

 

Not to be completely dismissive of some peoples opinions though, for some it is simply that they do not think the pros outweigh the cons. The troops slot is not exactly hurting for great choices and with the basic Chaos Marine being so dang effetive and flexible, to say nothing of Cult troopers, many dismiss the Lesser Daemons as not worth it.

[Azekai]

Well reasoned post, Darth Kados. The thing to remember is that daemons have the same stat line as a CSM, but with no guns and a 5++ instead of a 3+. This means they are resistant to heavy weapons, but will evaporate if exposed to rapid fire, so get 'em in assault. I use lots of summoned daemons (yay zombie-proxies), especially in apoc, where the invuln save is invaluable when objective-camping. In normal games, daemons seem situational- I have had great success against Tau and Guard, but against dedicated cc armies they will probably lose combat and then dissapear because they are fearless.

[Brother Nihm]

Short answer, because its not 3.5 and its not the 2 DP, Lash, Oblit list that many individuals on this forum think is the only way to win.

 

Of course, that is a far too narrow view, one can see many other ways of using the Chaos Codex in a competitive fashion(Searching Dakka Dakka one can find a few nice tacticas) but folks get stuck in ways of thinking.

They are used around here, though the majority of players don't use them because they are as has been said, unreliable. I wouldn't call going for reliability and stability in one's forces narrow minded.

 

Another reason not to take them is that they bring little to the table in terms of anti-tank, something our Heavy Support and Troop options usually cover.

 

They are not a bad unit per se, they are just not better than CSM/PMs/'Zerkers.

 

 

My 2 Kraks

[Corruptedcz]

Iam using them primary as a objective holder or support for my CSM squads. They will often DS to enemy objective and stay here when CSM move out or they will support combat or tarpit some unit.

I really like our Lesser Daemons because I can use my favourite fantasy Beastmans...

[Rik Riorik]

I like lessers. Wish they were a point or two cheaper and had the option to take something akin to a powerfist though for a bit more flexibility. The fact that they are only two points cheaper than standard CSM but lack any ranged weapons is the downer but all in all, relatively cheap and with some good uses though. And its fun to play a unit that alters the way you play a bit.

[Notanoob]

I never really got all of the love for these guys. Sure, they're cheaper, but not by much. 2 points is hardly a huge investment, and fact is I'd rather have CSMs. Lessers are far easier to kill with only a 5++, when's the last time you called flack armor durable? It's not, they drop like flies even when some guardsmen look at them. They don't have more attacks than CSMs in CC, and they can't do anything outside of combat because they have no guns. They can't serve as a powerfist or melta delivery system, and against shooting CSMs can get an equivalent to a 4++ via cover such. Really, I'd just take a small group of IoCG CSMs and put them in reserves so that they pop up on my home objective late, rather than take Lessers demons which can't do anything CSMs can do better with the exception of survive against full PW equipped squads. And even then, IoT could take care of that if you chose to use it.

 

So while they may be usable, that's not saying much, usable can still be crap. It's just all relative.

[the jeske]

That's a good deal. 130 pts will net you 10 of these and they dont even need to purchase a transport. thats cheap, even cheaper than a loyalist scout squad which they are comparable to but arguably better than

no bolt pistols . no shoting . no hvy special weapon . no chapter tactic so no buff like fleet for example . sv +4 vs inv +5 means they die more in hth and die the same from shoting [only demons work only when in hth] . no frags , scouts charge they use their own I . demons charge they die [sv+5 I covered that right?] . also 130 pts is not cheap .

 

 

 

This means they are resistant to heavy weapons

its +5 not +3 . LSD have the same resiliance to hvy weapons csm do [+4 from cover] . what LSD do "counter" better is rending or mass power weapons . The thing is . those units kill LSD anyway with number of Attacks

 

 

 

 

 

Short answer, because its not 3.5 and its not the 2 DP, Lash, Oblit list that many individuals on this forum think is the only way to win

dude when was the last time you saw people say to take lash ? realy . Because since 5th started and the mecha thing started rolling every forum out there that had list section was talking about how this nerfs lash . how the fact that other meq armies were given cheap hoods/runes/runes staffs hurts chaos more etc .

Use search and read why LSD are bad and dont go on posting stuff you think is OP [which by the way it isnt] as what others think.

[Vilicate]

From my experience they're very reliable for tying up TH/SS terminators. Nothing else in the book, with the exception of expensive 1ksons or tzeentch possesed does it as well as they do, and for the points, it's really been a huge help in dealing with units like that.

 

I take units of 9 or 10, and usually two or three units.

 

Like I said, it's been working fairly well for me.