SW Battleforce question

[Jerre]

When I look at the GW site, they say that the SW Battleforce containts 10 grey hunters, 10 bloodclaws and 5 scouts (with a drop pod). Can you make 20 grey hunters and 5 scouts out of the sprues? What I am trying to find out is if the whole content of the standard space wolf box (10 grey hunters or 10 bloodclaws) is included twice or not ?

[Gerwulf]

you basically get the sprues you would have if you were to combine two of the normal PA SW boxes.

 

So yes, you can make 20 GH.

[Grey Mage]

Its just there way of making it sound more interesting- it could be 20 Wolf Gaurd if you really wanted.

[CainTheHunter]

Its just there way of making it sound more interesting- it could be 20 Wolf Gaurd if you really wanted.

 

 

Or 20 Blood Claws or if You really really wanted - 25 Scouts :)

[Jerre]

Thanks for the quick replies !

[Simo429]

Its just there way of making it sound more interesting- it could be 20 Wolf Gaurd if you really wanted.

Or 4 Rune priests.

 

Gotta say I think our battleforce is the best out there for the options

 

Warhammer world often have tournaments where there is no points limit purely the use of a battleforce. Reckon we could get a mighty army out of that

[Prot]

Its just there way of making it sound more interesting- it could be 20 Wolf Gaurd if you really wanted.

Or 4 Rune priests.

 

Gotta say I think our battleforce is the best out there for the options

 

Warhammer world often have tournaments where there is no points limit purely the use of a battleforce. Reckon we could get a mighty army out of that

 

True but I do have a LOT of scouts, but if you do the math it makes more sense to buy the battleforce than just buy 20 Grey Hunters, and a Pod.

[RunningWolfFenris]

I probably should buy the battleforce, but I just really have no desire to use the pod and I'm still unsure about the scouts (not trying to hijack thread)

[CainTheHunter]

I probably should buy the battleforce, but I just really have no desire to use the pod and I'm still unsure about the scouts (not trying to hijack thread)

 

 

Sell or trade it to Your mates - they will tear it away with yer hand! As for the scouts - how one can be unsure about scouts with BS4 and meltagun, who can enter the game right behind that piece of artillery?

[Grimtooth]

I probably should buy the battleforce, but I just really have no desire to use the pod and I'm still unsure about the scouts (not trying to hijack thread)

 

 

Sell or trade it to Your mates - they will tear it away with yer hand! As for the scouts - how one can be unsure about scouts with BS4 and meltagun, who can enter the game right behind that piece of artillery?

 

Because I can say no to losing them the next turn, I really don't believe in fire and forget packs or the saying, "they earned their points back."

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I probably should buy the battleforce, but I just really have no desire to use the pod and I'm still unsure about the scouts (not trying to hijack thread)

 

 

Sell or trade it to Your mates - they will tear it away with yer hand! As for the scouts - how one can be unsure about scouts with BS4 and meltagun, who can enter the game right behind that piece of artillery?

 

Because I can say no to losing them the next turn, I really don't believe in fire and forget packs or the saying, "they earned their points back."

 

I never thought you were such a soft touch, Ramses? Well at least if I ever get my arm snipped off by the Swarmlord, and we're on campaign together, I'll have your ID on my tags, so they can send for you and then you can come and mop my brow and cradle my head. I like my milk gently warm, btw.

:cuss

 

 

It seems we have a spate of soft-touchitis breaking out amongst the General's on the B&C:

I hope that in answering Algesan, I have also answered your dislike of 'fast melta'. Not to convert, but to make it be seen as a decent/viable/intelligent choice.

 

Now on the suicide component. I think you are being too compassionate with your toy soldiers :P

What if, absurdly speaking, I have a 100 pt unit that kills 500 pts of the enemy, but automatically dies in being used. You couldn't, surely, tell me that is a waste of points. In the same way, even if the efficiency in points is lower, the point still stands?

 

Or what if you could bring 10 HK missiles for 10 pts. That is a great deal, yet the HKs are used up on use. But you are still getting very good bang-for-buck.

 

+++

 

Thoughts gentlemen....?

 

You, Algesan, Khornehunter [but he does also play Ultramarines and they have a "tactic" that is running away. Combat tactics he said. Yella Belly from my viewpoint ^_^ ] and that witch you Wolves all hearken to, all dismiss "suicide" units.

 

It seems 'The War Wolves of Fenris' have been bred out and replaced by something much more cuddly and fluffy, eh? What would the Wolf King say at such warm fuzzies thinking?

 

*laughs at own humour and accepts an ale from a laughing Wolfguard of a rival Great Company*

 

+++

 

All jests aside, I think dismissing something that can very effective just because they'll probably die is not a good idea. You certainly don't have to play that way, and I know I am teasing you for it, but it works and can work very well.

 

Thoughts?

[Grey Mage]

+++

 

All jests aside, I think dismissing something that can very effective just because they'll probably die is not a good idea. You certainly don't have to play that way, and I know I am teasing you for it, but it works and can work very well.

 

Thoughts?

Its more effective if they can do it again the next turn.

 

That being said, Ive not had alot of problems with my wolf scouts dying when played smart- including blowing up artillery peices *their main job really*

[Marshal Wilhelm]

+++

 

All jests aside, I think dismissing something that can very effective just because they'll probably die is not a good idea. You certainly don't have to play that way, and I know I am teasing you for it, but it works and can work very well.

 

Thoughts?

Its more effective if they can do it again the next turn.

 

That being said, Ive not had alot of problems with my wolf scouts dying when played smart- including blowing up artillery peices *their main job really*

 

Yes for sure, but sometimes just once gets you far in front, even if the unit is killed.

 

Similarly, we know that taking out one element of your foe's army can, sometimes, scupper him.

For example, in Chess, it is advised not to take his Queen with your Queen if your Queen will be taken to his next move. But if you otherwise are in front, getting rid of his Queen at the price of yours can be a good move.

 

Also, Bob mightn't have redundancy in his list. He might depend royally on X doing the business for him in terms of AT or AI, etc. Even if Bob isn't just some greenhorn, he might have loaded up on some Unit of Doom. Take that out [with destruction or otherwise rendering ineffective] and you have won a great moment in winning the battle.

Or perhaps you have been duelling Bob, and you have have whittled away his redundancy and now is the time to finish the last of it, thereby gaining supremacy.

 

Bob needn't have made a faux pas for Jim to get a great advantage in trading 'Scouts' [or whatever unit really, be they a designed one shot unit, or just by happenstance] in a 'suicide' move.

 

+++

 

Is blowing up artillery their main job - or is it their reputation of being able to blow them up that is the task they really need to achieve....? :D

 

In terms of pure blowing up power, I think Scouts lag behind MM Speeders and Melta Pods [be they Greys, or Wolf Guard] who can get right on top of artillery due to DS. And Wolf players never seem to use either unit for that task....

 

Scouts are dependent on not turning up on the wrong side of the table AND the foe being within 12" of the edge.

 

The Pod, if part of the first Drop, wrecks the foe on T1, or if part of the subsequent drop, from then on. But say you pop that artillery piece with your Fangs - the one you had in mind for your Scouts. You could either let it keep firing to get the Scouts a scalp, or remove as soon as was plausible, which happened to be with the Fangs [who might have gotten through their transports sooner than expected, or whatever]

The subsequent drop Pod has no such short comings, and can appear and be effective straight away.

 

Now you might say, well if everything is going that well, who cares if the Scouts are ineffective in the game - which I think is coasting and thus not being as good as you could be and avoided.

Also, perhaps even if you have smoked his transports then artillery with your Fangs, and robbed the Scouts of a scalp, you could actually be suffering and losing in the midfield. Hey presto! the Pod appears, meanwhile the Scouts trudge across the table....

 

That can also be the case if you roll badly for BEL table edge.

 

This is why I think Pod > BEL - on the table. The Scout's [through BEL] primary strength is to scare the foe into changing his deployment, which works great for aggressive Wolves, especially with LR Crusaders and TWC.

So that, imo, is the main job of Scouts. Popping artillery can be done better by DSing MELTA.

 

Thoughts?

[Prot]

All jests aside, I think dismissing something that can very effective just because they'll probably die is not a good idea. You certainly don't have to play that way, and I know I am teasing you for it, but it works and can work very well.

 

Thoughts?

 

Having a big background in Chaos armies, this is a staple tactic of some units... I suppose it depends on your experience and background. Very small elite armies don't lend themselves too well to the tactic. Three Chaos Terminators set up for Termicide? Works quite well... I've used it myself. A 5 man Wolf Guard squad with a drop pod? Not so much. I do think the tactic is valid though.

 

My most popular use of the tactic with my Wolves is a very small Scout squad made to hit and fade behind enemy lines, disrupt a soft squad, Lootas, Ordnance, etc. But there isn't a lot that is cheap enough in the Wolves list to make it super valid in a 1500 point game. Melta Speeders perhaps? Cannonball unit?

 

Back to the O.P. I'd say for the deal of the Drop Pod, get the Battleforce, and as others have said you'll have no problem at all trading that pod if you have more than 3 Marine friends... Seriously. Plus if you're just finding your way with this codex, you will probably find need for it eventually... even in Apoc games.

[Grimtooth]

+++

 

All jests aside, I think dismissing something that can very effective just because they'll probably die is not a good idea. You certainly don't have to play that way, and I know I am teasing you for it, but it works and can work very well.

 

Thoughts?

Its more effective if they can do it again the next turn.

 

That being said, Ive not had alot of problems with my wolf scouts dying when played smart- including blowing up artillery peices *their main job really*

 

This is more of my opinion.

 

I do not have a problem in losing a unit with the task that I have set before them, however I am not going to just plan for them to just be a suicide squad. With the Wolf Scouts example,

 

I plan on them coming on from the edge and hitting the best possible target they can, however I then expect them to continue on harassing that flank and or pushing into that flank while the rest of my army does what I have tasked them to do. I do not plan for them to come on, blow their load, and then die.

[Grey Mage]

Yep, a sacrifice should always be a well calculated move- never the first idea. The ability to use those resources later is important, and their presence on the field helps shift the flow of a fight- as much as their reputation shifts the flow of deployment.

 

Even chaos termicide units preform better when played to balance their survivability with their kill factor- if its harder for the enemy to remove them, they must devote more resources to getting rid of the threat, and if they dont you get to punish them for it.

 

Its not making sure they get out without scratching the paint, its not limiting your own options unnecessarily. In the case of Wolf Scouts, this is often as simple as picking the right spot to come out at to minimize incoming firepower.

[Simo429]

Understanding that losing models is not always a bad thing is one of the differences between a good 40k player and a not so good one

 

Our baby seal worries so much about every single model he loses that he has no grasp of the big picture for the game he is playing.

 

Scouts are a good unit, in fact very good although lately I have been toying with the idea of running speeders to do a similar job, both have their pros and cons certainly.