Why aren't we using more plasma?

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

I am a bit curious about this. I know all the perks of a meltagun, but plasmaguns aren't exactly bad anymore.

Or well, this I realised as I was going through the rulebook today, somehow I've managed to miss the part were Gets hot! doesn't get worse with

rapid fire anymore. Plasmaguns are quite reliable at popping Rhinos and such, and could be great for sitting at objective in a DoA army.

 

Is it residual scorn from 4th, or is the plasmagun a thing of the past?

[Xythan]

I too want to know what is the beef with plasma...seriously, I've asked a number of legitimate questions about them and I either get silence or arrogant replies about "this thing is better".

[AngelOfDeathXIII]

I'd take a meltagun over a plasmagun anytime. When playing (Chaos) Marines though I usually field a Devestator Squad with one or two plasma cannons. The S7 Blast is awesome and well worth the risk of getting hot..

[gustmic]

Well, first I think that a DoA army is not about sitting on objectives.

It's about being up-close and personal. That is where BA DoA shines.

In this respect, jumping within range, popping armour to let the contents spill out, and charging them is where you want to be.

Thus, you want a reliable armour popping weapon and here the meltagun outclasses the plasmagun.

 

Now, if you play more of a shooting, and objective-holding style of army then yes the plasmagun works fine due to its range.

 

/gustmic

 

Visit my WIP blog of 2000pts DoA BA

[knife&fork]

I am a bit curious about this. I know all the perks of a meltagun, but plasmaguns aren't exactly bad anymore.

Or well, this I realised as I was going through the rulebook today, somehow I've managed to miss the part were Gets hot! doesn't get worse with

rapid fire anymore. Plasmaguns are quite reliable at popping Rhinos and such, and could be great for sitting at objective in a DoA army.

 

Is it residual scorn from 4th, or is the plasmagun a thing of the past?

 

Because they aren't assault assault weapons? Most BA lists doesn't do a lot of sitting around.

For others it probably has to do with close combat being much more effective in 5th ed, and shooting less so because of cover saves.

[toaae]

I use plasma in my tactical squads. But I understand why most BA don't want to waste the effort. Compared to the mighty meltagun, they are more expensive, a little dangerous, prevent you from charging and are worse against heavy armor. That last point is a big one, since most BA players aren't taking a lot of long-range anti-tank. The plasma gun's forte is really anti-heavy infantry, and when cover saves are added into the equation, most BA players would rather just charge the unit with some power weapons.

 

But, for me, and my use of Lascannon-toting combat squads, I like the plasmagun in the other combat squad of a tactical squad so I can support my Assault units with some strong anti-heavy infantry firepower.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

Well, thing is that even DoA armies have to hold objectives, no getting around that. Also, I'm quite sure that a plasma gun is better at damaging most transports that aren't land raiders at ranges between 6.1"- 24" (compared to a melta).

[shatter]

Assault marines are popular for BA players.

Assault units favor assault weapons.

More assault units means more assault weapons.

DS units require high odds of breaking armour as they are in play for fewer turns

Folks like to build all-comers lists on the interwebs else they'll be slammed by folks sayin "My list would crush yours because you don't have X"

Those factors force common list perception to be very melta biased.

 

 

There are many sensible plasma lists possible in the 'dex however... but they just aint popular. Doesn't mean they're wrong lists to take. Do what you like.

[Grey Mage]

Is it residual scorn from 4th, or is the plasmagun a thing of the past?

People are blinded by the AP 1. Its great... but so is two shots.

 

The plasmagun is more flexable- it has a longer range, it has great damage potential vs. light vehicles, hard infantry, and MCs.

 

Meltaguns are more directly powerful, but because they only have a single short ranged shot theyre not much good in a fire support role, unless your looking to pop transports at short range.

 

For a strong assault army, like most BA armies are played, the melta tends to be a better option for two reasons: You can assault afterwords and your going to be up close anyways because normally you want to assault.

 

For armies that are more based around fire support like C:SM or C:SW plasma is often a better option. Particularly for C:SM wich has a wonderful set of fast melta delivery platforms that dont have access to plasma weaponry.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

Is it residual scorn from 4th, or is the plasmagun a thing of the past?

People are blinded by the AP 1. Its great... but so is two shots.

 

The plasmagun is more flexable- it has a longer range, it has great damage potential vs. light vehicles, hard infantry, and MCs.

 

Meltaguns are more directly powerful, but because they only have a single short ranged shot theyre not much good in a fire support role, unless your looking to pop transports at short range.

 

For a strong assault army, like most BA armies are played, the melta tends to be a better option for two reasons: You can assault afterwords and your going to be up close anyways because normally you want to assault.

 

For armies that are more based around fire support like C:SM or C:SW plasma is often a better option. Particularly for C:SM wich has a wonderful set of fast melta delivery platforms that dont have access to plasma weaponry.

 

That is a valid reason indeed, B.A being more assault focused. Still, we do have combat squads. 4 plasma shots followed by the other half assaulting with power fist or weapon should give most heavy infantry a run for their money.

 

But I have decided on including a dual plasma + fist RAS now for my DoA. Objectives need to be held, comp needs to be raised.

[knife&fork]

That is a valid reason indeed, B.A being more assault focused. Still, we do have combat squads. 4 plasma shots followed by the other half assaulting with power fist or weapon should give most heavy infantry a run for their money.

 

But I have decided on including a dual plasma + fist RAS now for my DoA. Objectives need to be held, comp needs to be raised.

 

Interesting idea. I do think the assault element is a bit low on attacks, maybe this could be offset with a handflamer or an attached IC with PW (priest).

[prenelf]

I normally give my Sargent in my assault squads a plasma pistol for that little extra firepower

[JamesI]

The main reason I'm not using much plasma is I think it is overcosted right now.

 

For the cost of 1 plasma pistol in an Assault Squad I could get a meltagun and a flamer.

 

I use some combi-plasma in my sternguard, and intend to use plasmaguns in an Honor Guard, but most other squads I just find plasma overpriced especially for the risk of it killing an already expensive sergeant.

[Redo]

Like many here, I believe that BA armies are there to assault and Plasma does not offer synergy. Also BA do not use a lot of Tacticals. Tacticals are great fire support and plasma works well here but not f you do not take them.

Lastly LIke James 1 I think that Plasma is a bit overpriced. A plasma gun IMO should be about 10 points and Plasma Pistols are way overpriced at 15 points/ 10 points would be more reasonable.

 

Just for interest I nearly always field one tactical squad and it is often one with a plasma gun and ML. When I can I combat squad. Plasma goes forward and ML stays back...but the squad also offeres synergy together.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

The main reason I'm not using much plasma is I think it is overcosted right now.

 

For the cost of 1 plasma pistol in an Assault Squad I could get a meltagun and a flamer.

 

I use some combi-plasma in my sternguard, and intend to use plasmaguns in an Honor Guard, but most other squads I just find plasma overpriced especially for the risk of it killing an already expensive sergeant.

 

Pistols are priced awfully, but the gun is the same. For some reason. And it only fries a regular marine ^^

[JamesI]

The main reason I'm not using much plasma is I think it is overcosted right now.

 

For the cost of 1 plasma pistol in an Assault Squad I could get a meltagun and a flamer.

 

I use some combi-plasma in my sternguard, and intend to use plasmaguns in an Honor Guard, but most other squads I just find plasma overpriced especially for the risk of it killing an already expensive sergeant.

 

Pistols are priced awfully, but the gun is the same. For some reason. And it only fries a regular marine ^^

Plasmaguns are still overpriced considering they eliminate the ability to assault after firing. I would never put plasmaguns in an RAS, not enough shots to be worth it since everyone else only has the 1 boltpistol shot. Better to go with flamers.

 

For tacs plasmaguns are fine, and plasma cannons work in tacs or devs.

[Rybnick]

I'm a huge fan of plasma cannon's on Dev squads in cover supported by sanguinary priests.

[Morollan]

They are overpriced, dangerous to use (especially with my dice rolling) and the availablility is all wrong in that assault squads can take one per 5 marines whereas tacticals can only get 1 per 10.

 

That being said, I do have an Honour Guard squad in production at the moment that is magnetised for either melta or plasma and if I ever face GKs I will definitely be rolling them out as plasma.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

Blood Angels hardly ever die to plasma as you have to roll a 1, followed by 1-2, and then usually 1-3. That's like... 3%?

 

edit:

GK have that magical thing which makes all plasma hit at 6'es. Dunno how popular that will be, but be warned =)

[SevenExxes]

Blood Angels hardly ever die to plasma as you have to roll a 1, followed by 1-2, and then usually 1-3. That's like... 3%?

 

edit:

GK have that magical thing which makes all plasma hit at 6'es. Dunno how popular that will be, but be warned =)

 

What the hell?

So you have to roll a 6 to hit a GK with a plasma gun?

 

There goes my plans for a full plasma Honour Guard.

[CaptainLNH]

I love PLASMA! I use a plasma gun in each of my tactical squads, two plasma cannons in my Dev. Squad, plasma pistols in my Assault squads and Vanguard, and plasma pistol on my Chaplain and SG.

 

I lose like one guy per game.

 

EDIT: I also use twinPCs on my Raven. And FNP works really well with all the plasma in my Honor Guard.

[1Drop]

I have plasma cannons on my devs, I have twin linked plasma cannons on my SR and twinlinked plasma guns on my RB's but not in my assault squads for the reasons already mentioned. I will be running a plasma heavy HG against MC heavy armies like nids but that's about it, I love plasma but it has it's place in our chapter and I don't think it belongs on units that need to assault or may have to.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

Blood Angels hardly ever die to plasma as you have to roll a 1, followed by 1-2, and then usually 1-3. That's like... 3%?

 

edit:

GK have that magical thing which makes all plasma hit at 6'es. Dunno how popular that will be, but be warned =)

 

What the hell?

So you have to roll a 6 to hit a GK with a plasma gun?

 

There goes my plans for a full plasma Honour Guard.

 

It's called a.. uluthemi something-something plasma syphon and makes all models within 12" that have plasma weapons BS1.

It seems only ordo xenons inquisitors can take those. Just glanced through the codex quickly. Don't think they are, or will ever be, many enough to actually make a difference.

[Rybnick]

QUOTE (SevenExxes @ May 4 2011, 01:52 PM)

QUOTE (Cpt. Blood Donator @ May 4 2011, 01:47 PM)

Blood Angels hardly ever die to plasma as you have to roll a 1, followed by 1-2, and then usually 1-3. That's like... 3%?

 

edit:

GK have that magical thing which makes all plasma hit at 6'es. Dunno how popular that will be, but be warned =)

 

 

What the hell?

So you have to roll a 6 to hit a GK with a plasma gun?

 

There goes my plans for a full plasma Honour Guard.

 

 

 

It's called a.. uluthemi something-something plasma syphon and makes all models within 12" that have plasma weapons BS1.

It seems only ordo xenons inquisitors can take those. Just glanced through the codex quickly. Don't think they are, or will ever be, many enough to actually make a difference.

 

From what I remember of the codex he's right that only inquisitors can take them and they reduce BS to 1 w/in 12", it's unlikely you will ever see more than 1 in an army and even then probably fairly rarely. The 12" range pretty much only hurts rapid firing plasma guns so only a handul of the units BA commonly take plasma guns on would be affected (tacticals and razorbacks come to mind).

[Elsven]

I would say the biggest reason why we don’t use plasma is because most BA armies are designed to table their opponent not sit on objectives. I use a plasma HQ squad for taking out light armor and monstrous creatures. This squad has served my DOA army well by supporting my troops with FNP and furious charge so I do not need to get them in CC.