Why aren't we using more plasma?

[Elsven]

I am not sure I agree with this, so many armies these days are very mech heavy and you need ways to deal with it. Since a squad cannot attack two different targets this means that if you have 4 squads with melta, you can only take out 4 targets when you come in. For IG that is not very much especially in higher pointed games. The good thing about melta is their strength 8 AP 1, so your wounding on twos and shooting at a range of 12 inches and assaulting. Since most BA use their RAS to start combat this helps a lot because it the squad usually takes out a lot of mech on the way in, then spends the rest of its time popping transports and assaulting the guys in it. If they are attacking monstrous creatures, they are usually getting a couple wounds before the assault. If they are attacking terminators they are killing a couple before they go in for the assault. The diversity of a melta in a BA army is phenomenal in a BA army. The only reason why I put plasma in my HG unit is because they are a supporting unit in my army it is rare they get in to assault. This allows me to do a lot of wounds to big units and high wounding creatures and it keeps my priest out of harm’s way. I am not sure how the rest of your clubs are but at mine everyone knows my priest is the backbone of my army, usually my librarian is the first to go, and my priest is the second to go. As a result I have to take extra precautions so I can keep my priests safe.

[Sorien]

In addition to being assault wepaons, meltaguns instant death Paladins and Nobs, where as plasma guns won't actually kill any models if they are properly wound allocated.

 

I have plasma on my razorbacks, would never take them on infantry.

[knife&fork]

In addition to being assault wepaons, meltaguns instant death Paladins and Nobs, where as plasma guns won't actually kill any models if they are properly wound allocated.

 

I have plasma on my razorbacks, would never take them on infantry.

 

Plasma on the other hand is better against MEQ and T5 like thunder wolves.

 

EDIT:

Let's say you drop down next to some long fangs. The initial plasma blast will knock a few wounds off them (with better average than meltas) Since people usually don't put a lot of padding in those he's gonna have to remove weapons right away, or take out the pack leader and lose the ability to split fire. You've just crippled that unit, maybe before he even had a chance to use them.

[Marik]

I am fairly certain that for most, if not all, squads a meltagun cost less than or the same amount of points as a plasma gun and they have the same Str and AP. The plasma has better range if you aren't moving but comes with the risk of dying. While the melta has the same range as the plasma when you are moving but comes with the added bonus of being an assault weapon and also getting the melta bonus v vehicles. So personally for a rule of thumb if I want an all takers army I will pick a melta over plasma.

[Isryion]

I'll run plasma in devs or tacticals and they're very useful there. I can see the plasma HG, too.

 

Outside of that, especially for assault squads, the flexibility of having meltaguns, for all the reasons already mentioned. Ultimately, it's really because plasma are anti-infantry weapons with very minor anti-tank role and my BA have a lot of ways to kill opposing infantry.

 

I don't buy the "sitting on objectives bit." If my assault squads are sitting on an objecting, there's one of three reasons: 1) They've just wiped out an enemy squad that was sitting on one, 2) They're daring an enemy to come and try and take it from them. 3)It's turn 5/6/7 and they're scoring. Otherwise, my army is fast enough to get to objectives that I can be 16" away (or even 17-18" if I'm feeling really lucky) and still get to it on the turn I need to.

[1Drop]

I think with me the whole 'gets hot' thing is pretty daunting. But, is there not a way to ignore this via fnp from priests? I want to run a plasma spam HG as they have the novitiate for fnp (does this actually ignore gets hot?) and I have plasma devs too and if fnp ignore gets hot I think I'll keep a priest near them too.

[JamesI]

I think with me the whole 'gets hot' thing is pretty daunting. But, is there not a way to ignore this via fnp from priests? I want to run a plasma spam HG as they have the novitiate for fnp (does this actually ignore gets hot?) and I have plasma devs too and if fnp ignore gets hot I think I'll keep a priest near them too.

FNP does not ignore Gets Hot. It lessens it, as you have the extra FNP save after your armor save to survive.

[1Drop]

I think with me the whole 'gets hot' thing is pretty daunting. But, is there not a way to ignore this via fnp from priests? I want to run a plasma spam HG as they have the novitiate for fnp (does this actually ignore gets hot?) and I have plasma devs too and if fnp ignore gets hot I think I'll keep a priest near them too.

FNP does not ignore Gets Hot. It lessens it, as you have the extra FNP save after your armor save to survive.

 

So would you advice keeping a priest near plasma units to increase survivability?

 

Also is there any tips for avoiding being blown up by Plasma other than good dice rolls and just not taking plasma?

[JamesI]

I think with me the whole 'gets hot' thing is pretty daunting. But, is there not a way to ignore this via fnp from priests? I want to run a plasma spam HG as they have the novitiate for fnp (does this actually ignore gets hot?) and I have plasma devs too and if fnp ignore gets hot I think I'll keep a priest near them too.

FNP does not ignore Gets Hot. It lessens it, as you have the extra FNP save after your armor save to survive.

 

So would you advice keeping a priest near plasma units to increase survivability?

 

Also is there any tips for avoiding being blown up by Plasma other than good dice rolls and just not taking plasma?

Always try to keep a priest near a plasma heavy squad. I tend not to use much plasma at all, so its not a big concern to me.

 

I will try the Plasma HG, eventually.

[knife&fork]

I'll run plasma in devs or tacticals and they're very useful there. I can see the plasma HG, too.

 

Outside of that, especially for assault squads, the flexibility of having meltaguns, for all the reasons already mentioned. Ultimately, it's really because plasma are anti-infantry weapons with very minor anti-tank role and my BA have a lot of ways to kill opposing infantry.

 

Plasma actually do well versus AV11 and AV10 (most common transport armor) thanks to the extra shot. While you don't get to assault passengers in the same turn I've found that opponents rarely makes things easy for you by placing everything 18" or less apart. ;)

 

Again, if you depend on those assault squads for your anti tank, keep the meltas. If you can get that capability somewhere else adding plasma to RAS will open up for some new tactics.

[Focke]

How does plasma work with bikes? I'm planning on having a squad with two plasma guns. You don't loose the range when moving, and you can still assault if you need to. I would still try and keep a priest near by to lessen the chances of loosing a very expensive model.

[Firedrake28]

How does plasma work with bikes? I'm planning on having a squad with two plasma guns. You don't loose the range when moving, and you can still assault if you need to. I would still try and keep a priest near by to lessen the chances of loosing a very expensive model.

 

Plasma on Bikers is okay, though melta is typically better since the speed of the bike lends itself well to getting close enough to get the melta bonus. It's nice to be able to move and still rapid fire but the risk of losing an expensive biker to plasma is a bit too high for my liking, even with a Priest around.

[1Drop]

I think with me the whole 'gets hot' thing is pretty daunting. But, is there not a way to ignore this via fnp from priests? I want to run a plasma spam HG as they have the novitiate for fnp (does this actually ignore gets hot?) and I have plasma devs too and if fnp ignore gets hot I think I'll keep a priest near them too.

FNP does not ignore Gets Hot. It lessens it, as you have the extra FNP save after your armor save to survive.

 

So would you advice keeping a priest near plasma units to increase survivability?

 

Also is there any tips for avoiding being blown up by Plasma other than good dice rolls and just not taking plasma?

Always try to keep a priest near a plasma heavy squad. I tend not to use much plasma at all, so its not a big concern to me.

 

I will try the Plasma HG, eventually.

 

I'm gonna make a plasma HG too but I think I'm gonna go with the idea of making them close support devs that was mentioned on here, such a good idea.

[Demoulius]

like so many here have allready mentioned plasma wepaons are rapid fire weapons...

 

on my tacticals however i almost always use it :P same range as the bolters and generally a great addition to the unit :D

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

I think with me the whole 'gets hot' thing is pretty daunting. But, is there not a way to ignore this via fnp from priests? I want to run a plasma spam HG as they have the novitiate for fnp (does this actually ignore gets hot?) and I have plasma devs too and if fnp ignore gets hot I think I'll keep a priest near them too.

FNP does not ignore Gets Hot. It lessens it, as you have the extra FNP save after your armor save to survive.

 

So would you advice keeping a priest near plasma units to increase survivability?

 

Also is there any tips for avoiding being blown up by Plasma other than good dice rolls and just not taking plasma?

Always try to keep a priest near a plasma heavy squad. I tend not to use much plasma at all, so its not a big concern to me.

 

I will try the Plasma HG, eventually.

 

I'm gonna make a plasma HG too but I think I'm gonna go with the idea of making them close support devs that was mentioned on here, such a good idea.

 

There's nothing new about the close support dev-garbage. That's how most people have been using the honour guards since the codex was released. In all fairness, those honour guards are probably best used with meltagun x4 and flamer x4. Same cost as plasmaguns, good against literally everything.

[1Drop]

I think with me the whole 'gets hot' thing is pretty daunting. But, is there not a way to ignore this via fnp from priests? I want to run a plasma spam HG as they have the novitiate for fnp (does this actually ignore gets hot?) and I have plasma devs too and if fnp ignore gets hot I think I'll keep a priest near them too.

FNP does not ignore Gets Hot. It lessens it, as you have the extra FNP save after your armor save to survive.

 

So would you advice keeping a priest near plasma units to increase survivability?

 

Also is there any tips for avoiding being blown up by Plasma other than good dice rolls and just not taking plasma?

Always try to keep a priest near a plasma heavy squad. I tend not to use much plasma at all, so its not a big concern to me.

 

I will try the Plasma HG, eventually.

 

 

I'm gonna make a plasma HG too but I think I'm gonna go with the idea of making them close support devs that was mentioned on here, such a good idea.

 

There's nothing new about the close support dev-garbage. That's how most people have been using the honour guards since the codex was released. In all fairness, those honour guards are probably best used with meltagun x4 and flamer x4. Same cost as plasmaguns, good against literally everything.

 

I was initially going to convert some melta/flamers which I was looking forward to but the costs would be astronomical for such a unit! I would still like to go ahead with the project sometime but for what I want at the moment the costs are just too high.

 

EDIT: I thought I better explain that I was gonna go with melta spam and decided to have melta and flamer but now I'm going for 2 x melta 4 x LC 2 x SS and 1 x banner. So is it the same price for 4 x melta and 4 x flamer as 4 x plasma? If so I'll still go ahead with the melta/flamer unit next.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

I think with me the whole 'gets hot' thing is pretty daunting. But, is there not a way to ignore this via fnp from priests? I want to run a plasma spam HG as they have the novitiate for fnp (does this actually ignore gets hot?) and I have plasma devs too and if fnp ignore gets hot I think I'll keep a priest near them too.

FNP does not ignore Gets Hot. It lessens it, as you have the extra FNP save after your armor save to survive.

 

So would you advice keeping a priest near plasma units to increase survivability?

 

Also is there any tips for avoiding being blown up by Plasma other than good dice rolls and just not taking plasma?

Always try to keep a priest near a plasma heavy squad. I tend not to use much plasma at all, so its not a big concern to me.

 

I will try the Plasma HG, eventually.

 

 

I'm gonna make a plasma HG too but I think I'm gonna go with the idea of making them close support devs that was mentioned on here, such a good idea.

 

There's nothing new about the close support dev-garbage. That's how most people have been using the honour guards since the codex was released. In all fairness, those honour guards are probably best used with meltagun x4 and flamer x4. Same cost as plasmaguns, good against literally everything.

 

I was initially going to convert some melta/flamers which I was looking forward to but the costs would be astronomical for such a unit! I would still like to go ahead with the project sometime but for what I want at the moment the costs are just too high.

 

EDIT: I thought I better explain that I was gonna go with melta spam and decided to have melta and flamer but now I'm going for 2 x melta 4 x LC 2 x SS and 1 x banner. So is it the same price for 4 x melta and 4 x flamer as 4 x plasma? If so I'll still go ahead with the melta/flamer unit next.

 

The flame-ta unit is like 225 points w. jump packs. Zogging close to being free for it's potential.

[1Drop]

I think with me the whole 'gets hot' thing is pretty daunting. But, is there not a way to ignore this via fnp from priests? I want to run a plasma spam HG as they have the novitiate for fnp (does this actually ignore gets hot?) and I have plasma devs too and if fnp ignore gets hot I think I'll keep a priest near them too.

FNP does not ignore Gets Hot. It lessens it, as you have the extra FNP save after your armor save to survive.

 

So would you advice keeping a priest near plasma units to increase survivability?

 

Also is there any tips for avoiding being blown up by Plasma other than good dice rolls and just not taking plasma?

Always try to keep a priest near a plasma heavy squad. I tend not to use much plasma at all, so its not a big concern to me.

 

I will try the Plasma HG, eventually.

 

 

I'm gonna make a plasma HG too but I think I'm gonna go with the idea of making them close support devs that was mentioned on here, such a good idea.

 

There's nothing new about the close support dev-garbage. That's how most people have been using the honour guards since the codex was released. In all fairness, those honour guards are probably best used with meltagun x4 and flamer x4. Same cost as plasmaguns, good against literally everything.

 

I was initially going to convert some melta/flamers which I was looking forward to but the costs would be astronomical for such a unit! I would still like to go ahead with the project sometime but for what I want at the moment the costs are just too high.

 

EDIT: I thought I better explain that I was gonna go with melta spam and decided to have melta and flamer but now I'm going for 2 x melta 4 x LC 2 x SS and 1 x banner. So is it the same price for 4 x melta and 4 x flamer as 4 x plasma? If so I'll still go ahead with the melta/flamer unit next.

 

The flame-ta unit is like 225 points w. jump packs. Zogging close to being free for it's potential.

 

Yeah man, just need to ge a hold of a few plastic melta's and flamers for the job, they'll be such a badass unit.

[SamaNagol]

Plasma limits your tactical options on the field far too much.

[Elsven]

Plasma limits your tactical options on the field far too much.

 

How does plasma limit your tactical options on the field? From experience my plasma HQ squad has payed for itself many times over on the field. In fact, earlier today my one plasma took out a terminator squad and an HQ squad in one game. Then in the next game I took out a couple HQ squads. So in both of these case they were very effective and payed for double their points. The squads may limit your tactical options, however other people use them and find them very effective. This doesn't mean that everyone should use them, it means you have to look at your playing style and see if they are the right unit for you.

[Isryion]

Plasma limits your tactical options on the field far too much.

 

How does plasma limit your tactical options on the field? From experience my plasma HQ squad has payed for itself many times over on the field. In fact, earlier today my one plasma took out a terminator squad and an HQ squad in one game. Then in the next game I took out a couple HQ squads. So in both of these case they were very effective and payed for double their points. The squads may limit your tactical options, however other people use them and find them very effective. This doesn't mean that everyone should use them, it means you have to look at your playing style and see if they are the right unit for you.

 

In general the discussion is about plasma on assault squads, and I'm assuming Sama was talking in that context. It's pretty clear that plasma can work and that overall BA are very effective with a variety of lists.

[SamaNagol]

And whilst your Plasma Honour guard performed admirably, had they ever been called to assault, or deal with a Land Raider, they would have been at a loss. They are tactically inflexible.

 

Which does not mean they are not good within their role. Just that role is limited.

 

Plasma HG is pretty much the only time you should see infantry carrying plasma guns in a BA list, imho.

[Elsven]

I can agree with you about that point. Plasma unless it s a pistol should not be in an assault squad. If the squad is holding the line or holding an objective than plasma would be ok. However since assault armies spend most of their time in CC it would not make much sense to put rapid fire weapons in with assault troops.

[knife&fork]

Ok, after two games vs MEQ (SoB, Spacewolves) using a PF+2*PG assault squad with priest I'm in love.

 

More killy on arrival, good success rate for popping transports and there's really no place to hide from them.

 

Not being able to assault after shooting hasn't been a problem. If I can't handle a unit with furious charge, a fist and a power weapon it's not something a regular assault squad has any business going up against in he first place. Any transport poppin tends to happen early in the game so blowing up and assaulting a mounted squad in the same turn never really came up. Having all those s7ap2 shots worked so well I'm almost tempted to give the sergeant a plasma pistol, but it's really pushing the cost of an already expensive unit and risking the fist to an overheat is intimidating even if the chances are really slim with fnp.

 

There's no way I'd trade in all my meltas for plasma, but I'll definitely keep one squad in 1250 and up.

[Gv0zD]

Hmmm... You have some good points. You almost make me try it as wel, but then I'd have no meltas in my list, as my HG are pasma as well. Choices choices :)