Best load out for Vanguard?

[nurglephill]

Vanguard. The options are insane!

 

As a Chaos player (and I LIKE the current dex) I am not used to this amount of wargear options. Most of the units I can field in my Chaos army are obviously good at one thing OR the only unit I can take to full fill another role. Lets not get into that debate here though lol.

 

But with the Vanguard, WOW. I mean you can load them out to do anything, anything at all. So my question is at what point do they cost TOO much? What do they excel at over all other units? Is there something?

 

I want a 10 unit with Jump packs but that is the only thing I insist on. I know the rule is 'what do YOU need in YOUR army' but this is not about that. I am just wondering about this unit on its own ignoring all other units/roles etc.

 

So, any advice/thoughts etc on what a Vanguard unit does best would be welcome thanks :D

[Meatman]

Vanguard. The options are insane!

 

As a Chaos player (and I LIKE the current dex) I am not used to this amount of wargear options. Most of the units I can field in my Chaos army are obviously good at one thing OR the only unit I can take to full fill another role. Lets not get into that debate here though lol.

 

But with the Vanguard, WOW. I mean you can load them out to do anything, anything at all. So my question is at what point do they cost TOO much? What do they excel at over all other units? Is there something?

 

I want a 10 unit with Jump packs but that is the only thing I insist on. I know the rule is 'what do YOU need in YOUR army' but this is not about that. I am just wondering about this unit on its own ignoring all other units/roles etc.

 

So, any advice/thoughts etc on what a Vanguard unit does best would be welcome thanks :)

 

 

 

What point do they cost too much? As soon as you pick them. There are dozens of threads on here with pages and pages of advice and suggestions.

 

100 points for 10 jump packs straight off the bat, so they are 315 points for 10 guys before anything else goes on.

[Khorne Worny]

Im going to give them a chance because

1. I really need a combat unit that can hit hard. I mean for the same price of 5 with JPs and 2-3 PWs I could get ten regular assualt marines with upgrades (flamers, etc) which wont hit anywere near as hard.

2. I have no wish to invest in 2 boxes of assualt marines, make, paint, etc 10 models....5 models is more then enough.

3. At the end of the day its your army include what you want in it.

 

Personally im going for 5 VV with JPs and 3 PWs 4 if include the sargs.

[nurglephill]

I have, or at least I thought I had, read the posts concerning them. I am not looking for whether they are in themselves the right choice, but rather if you are going to use them what is the way to get the best out of them.

 

If I have missed a thread that already answers that then could someone link me? I really hope I haven't just asked a question answered long long ago :S

 

They DO cost 325pts (with jump packs) before upgrades and for another 285pts you can give them power weapons and storm shields. Which is just slightly less than 10 terminators in a raider. I understand all the arguments against them and accept them.

 

But I don't know how to make the MOST of them and I am crappy at weighing up the 'this many points is worth it' stuff and that is made harder with these guys anyway.

[DarkGuard]

Where's thade when you need him? :lol:

 

Vanguard are often looked down as being overpointed for what they do, which they are. I'm being fair here. However, they can de equipped well and still do a job. I believe that thade, when he played C:SM, used an 8 man squad with thunder hammer, two lightning claws (on different guys), two storm shields, and basic guys filling the rest, in a Land Raider. The rule of thumb seems to be:

 

1x thunder hammer

2x lightning claws (different models)

1/2x storm shields

Rest all normal

And attempt a 1:1 split on upgraded and normal models, although you could probably get away with 2:1 split. Also, each model should only have one upgrade, make use of wound allocation.

 

In this squad you've got a few bodies with no upgrades who take normal armour saves, a couple of storm shields for those plasma hits etc, and then a few lightning claw attacks and a thunder hammer to deal the damage, normally alongside a character (Captain with relic blade does nicely). thade put this unit in a Land Raider, but I suppose it could work with jump packs if needed, just requires a different playstyle, as you're taking hits on the squad from the start of the game.

 

Don't HI them, especially with a big squad and no locator beacons around. Also, I now you want a 10 man squad, but I've found recently that Veteran squads tend to do best in 7/8 man units. The real reason is that 9th/10th man hardly ever does enough to justify spending more points on them. They're also smaller so easier to move and hide is need be, and upgrades really help with wound allocation, to counteract the drop in models. And it saves points. If you have the points though then the extra couple of bodies should be fine for absorbing hits, especially if you're jumping them.

 

So I'd probably go with something like this if you were using all 10, with jump packs of course:

Sergeant w/ relic blade

1x thunder hammer

2x lightning claw

2x storm shield

4x normal.

 

Plenty of killing power with 2/3 relic blade attacks, 4/6 lightning claw attacks, 2/3 thunder hammer attacks, and 12/16 normal attacks. Add a jump Captain with relic blade and storm shield and you've got another 3++ save, giving you 3 of them over 5 wounds, and another 3/4 relic blade attacks. Bad news, the Vanguard squad on its own costs 430pts, and a cheap RB/SS jump Captain costs 170pts, so that's 600pts. Not cheap, but fun.

 

As for effective use, again don't HI, jump them behind cover, behind vehicles, close down fire lanes to them, and keep them in the middle of your formation. Then use them on that enemy unit you want dead when close enough, or as a counter-assault unit. Another idea is pay for Shrike or Khan, and Outflank them, could be hilarious.

 

However, IMO the main reason you'd take Vanguard over Terminators is the same reason you'd take Honour Guard or Command squads, the ability to take a cheap transport at 35pts. However, jump Vanguard effectively have a 100pts transport that doesn't protect them from incoming fire. They can be used, they're just hard to use, but then that's why they're so fun isn't it?

[nurglephill]

DarkGuard sir, you are forever kind and patient.

 

Many thanks for that post...I confess my keenness for the ten man jump squad is my love of the models I have in mind more than tactics etc. I am also wondering if (as I am paying so much for them in the first place) the best HQ to give a jump pack is a Chaplain so his special rules will add to the units effectiveness while he himself is hardly a cross to bear.

 

Do you think the added bonus the Chaplain would give this unit is worth the slightly lower combat prowess the Chaplain offers compared to the Captain?

[DarkGuard]

DarkGuard sir, you are forever kind and patient.

 

Many thanks for that post...I confess my keenness for the ten man jump squad is my love of the models I have in mind more than tactics etc. I am also wondering if (as I am paying so much for them in the first place) the best HQ to give a jump pack is a Chaplain so his special rules will add to the units effectiveness while he himself is hardly a cross to bear.

 

Do you think the added bonus the Chaplain would give this unit is worth the slightly lower combat prowess the Chaplain offers compared to the Captain?

 

Why thank you, I try my best ;).

 

I'd say the Chaplain could be a good option, as he would be cheaper. For 125pts you've got your jump pack and digi weapons, and you've already got a thunder hammer and a couple of lightning claws, possibly a relic blade. And all those re-rolls to hit. So yeah, perhaps a jump Chaplain, or Khan or Shrike or you want to deploy from Outflanking. When running with the Chaplain, the challenge will be getting them there in one piece, but in all honesty if you can get there with all your power weapons alive a at least one storm shield and a normal guy, you've got enough people to do the job, especially with re-rolls on the charge.

 

The unit I've considered doing would be Shrike and lots of Vanguard with twin lightning claws. I know it's impractical and expensive and not points efficient, but one of my favourite things in the last Codex was Shrike's Wing, and this is bringing them back. Sometimes, we just need to have some fun with these units ;).