Trying to use Thunder Wolf Calvary in 1500 pts.

[Prot]

So I have a game planned for tomorrow and about every month or so I pull out Thunderwolf Calvary, and I get my butt whooped, so I put them back in the box for a while.

 

I thought I'm a pretty decent player, and granted half of the cries of woe from people victimized by TWC probably just didn't know what to do to them, but some people sear by them.

 

So since I play Harald Deathwolf's company (since 5th ed) I figure I have to put them in my army again. But this time I'll pick your brains....

 

I guess I'll start with a few questions for those who have used TWC "successfully":

 

1.) Do you take TWC in 1500 pts?

 

2.) If so, how large is the squad typically?

 

3.) In an army with TWC do you think it is a better idea to take a TWC mounted Wolf Lord?

3.B ) If so, how is he typically configured?

 

4.) In a TWC army, is the TWC typically your only assault unit or do you primarily use them as a support unit?

 

5.) With TWC in your list, do you think it effective to have a 'defensive' list, or an offensive list?

 

6.) What HQ choice best compliments TWC? (on or off a Thunderwolf?)

 

Let's start with that... I'm manufacturing another list and I'd like to figure some of this out.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Godhead]

It depends on what else you want to include. I run a unit of TWC from 1250 on up. Its a full squad of 5. I don't like a unit of less than 5 unless it has a lord or WGBL. I don't include a thunderlord until 1750 and when i do, it's with a unit of 4 TWC. I do however use 2 runepriests from 1250 on up as well.

 

The role my TWC play really depends on my opponent. If I'm playing something assaulty they become either a tarpit or a counter assault unit. If I'm playing against guard or something super shooty, then they become my vanguard that charges across the board to tries and break the enemy lines. Either way, they typically become a big distraction and they help protect my valuable grey hunters. It's sort of funny to watch all the fire power dumped into those guys and then watch the look on my opponents face as my Grey Hunters tear into them.

 

Without the lord though I try to avoid dumping them into the big nasty cc units unless it's simply to sacrifice them to buy me more time to get control of the rest of the table. They will most likely die, but typically not quickly and definitely not before doing some damage in return. I run my 5 man squad with ss/th, ss/ccw, ccw/bolter, ccw/bp/mb, ccw,bp. I have found JOTWW to be super helpful in softening up the cc units too. It's tons of fun to take out the power klaw from an orc horde and then charge those guys.

 

If I run the lord I drop out the ccw/bp/melta bomb TWC. This makes the unit a cc bomb IMO. It is however very expensive but very fun. You can go cheaper by giving them a WGBL, but he lacks bear, but still hooks up the unit with LD 9 which is a huge plus.

 

Oh and I typically run my lord with RA, WTT, WTN, Frost Weapon/SS, Saga of the Bear, 2x fen wolves (they are used to eat las cannon/plasma fire crossing the board), and sometimes if I can spare the 5 points a melta bomb since I hit dreads on a 3+ and I'd rather that than the 5 or 6 str 6 attacks with the frost blade.

[Prot]

Ok this is great info.

 

I was planning a 3 man TWC unit with Hammer/Shield, Fist/Shield, CCW/BP. With a ThunderWolf Lord with Frost blade, Shield, and I didn't know what Saga... but this was getting close to 445 points and I wasn't even done!

 

So I really, really like Rune Priests, so I was thinking of dumping the Lord, and going with 4 TWC, and a Rune Priest for protection. I thought maybe this is a bad idea, I mean these guys would need massive support right? Like lots of Grey Hunters?

 

BTW: The idea of the melta bomb hitting on the 3+ ? Really? I thought you could only hit a mobile dread on a 6?

 

But thanks for these great ideas.... I'm going to mimic your 4 man build and see if it works. A friend I saw a tournament said he always takes a mounted Lord in his army and give him 'stealth'? And gives it to the rest of the squad?

 

 

So then if I dump the TWC Lord (Not sure if that's a good idea, but also I'm worried about Grey Knights... and the Lord might cancel the power?):

 

Then I would take a Rune Priest at a cheap price, no extras. Add in 4 TWC:

1 x plain

1 x Frost Blade

1 x SS/Hammer

1 x SS

This comes out at 315 points total.

 

I suppose if they are on their own, I will have to go heavy Grey Hunters, and 2 Long Fang units for support?

 

++EDIT++

 

I decided I should take this to a full list discussion... assistance appreciated ---> Prot's attempt at TWC List 1500 pts.

[elithren]

One thing to note, only one TWC can take a special weapon per pack. So, take the hammer for overall effectiveness. I've gotten into the habit of running 3 packs of 2 TWC, 1 SS and special weapon, the other normal. They work great in that it splits the enemies fire and I found that they last longer then one pack of 5. The lord, you'll love him for what he can do with a frostblade, SS, wolf tooth talisman, TWM, and runic armor, but he is a target magnet and best to be treated as such.

 

TWC can only do so much on their own and, like a wolf pack, a lone wolf always loses without a pack. You need to keep them supported by GH squads close by or some heavy duty ranged firepower to back them up. My list runs 3 drop pods, 3 TWC packs, wolf priest, Ragnar, scouts, dreadnaught, and 2 long fang packs at 2k points. To get the most out of your TWC, you have to give the opponent higher priority things to focus on. Hmm, who is more of a threat, my 2 drop pods, 1 being Ragnar's dropping next to them or the advancing TWC? Either way they pick, the other will do a lot of damage and even then, they can't kill them all in one turn so the other has time to catch up and then they have both to deal with by turn 2.

[Ash Tekka]

I've run a 4 man TWC a few times against my friends blood angels.

My long fangs and rune priest usually force him to advance on me as quick as he can.

He'll usually try to avoid the TWC and instead get channeled into a grey hunter double team and ripped apart.

They have done an ungodly amount of damage and contested an objective once but I always end up second geussing the usefullness of their points when compared to my long fangs or grey hunters.

 

Before them I tried running a pack of terminators on foot, and while they got some impressive HQ kills they seemed to be overall less threatening but did more because of it.

 

The pure fear that TWC can bring is almost comical however and can really make your opponent play your way.

 

I think I need to make a new list with them and see how they work now that my BA friend has decided to go mechanized with razorbacks instead of a jump army...

[Nrthstar]

I'm poor so I haven't been able to order 3 more tw so I don't have a full unit yet. So I've been running this if I have enough points

 

TwLord

Ss, fw, ra, bear, 2x fen wolves, wtt

 

Twc

Ss, th

 

Twc

bp, ccw, mb

 

Or if points are a problem I use the lord as a twc and his fw as a ccw. I use these guys anytime I have a 1k or up game.they have made their points back and then some. They either tail a rhino wall, or run around behind blocking terrain and flank. These guys have demolished everything from troops to land raiders.

 

Sticking them with an rp will really slow them down though

[Freman Bloodglaive]

I've read recommended a three wolf unit with hammer, shield and naked for 210 points.

 

Others swear by single thunderwolves with a wolf claw as a countercharge unit hiding behind your Rhinos at 70 points each.

 

Still others prefer two man squads with hammer + shield and shield + meltabombs for 195 points.

 

In 1500 I'd run a Wolf Lord, thunderwolf, storm shield, wolf claw (I prefer the claw for all the lovely re-rolls) at 195 points, although if your gaming group is dominated by extra killy characters throwing on runic armour and bear or warrior born.

[Prot]

Ok there's a ton of great advice here... let's see if I can get this ironed out a bit..

 

The lord, you'll love him for what he can do with a frostblade, SS, wolf tooth talisman, TWM, and runic armor, but he is a target magnet and best to be treated as such.

 

That's great but your list (which I snipped out) was pretty well above what we're playing locally right now so I'm not sure how much of that advice I can take in 1500 but it does seem most are recommending a Wolf Lord on TWC rather than a rune priest.

 

I've run a 4 man TWC a few times against my friends blood angels.

 

Before them I tried running a pack of terminators on foot, and while they got some impressive HQ kills they seemed to be overall less threatening but did more because of it.

 

The pure fear that TWC can bring is almost comical however and can really make your opponent play your way.

 

Yea termies really haven't done too well for me with Wolves unless I go with a shooty variant.

 

Anyway I play against BA a LOT. That's partially why I like a Rune priest, also Grey Knights... but the chance of me seeing Mephiston is usually decent. He has taken my army apart a few times.

 

 

Or if points are a problem I use the lord as a twc and his fw as a ccw. I use these guys anytime I have a 1k or up game.they have made their points back and then some. They either tail a rhino wall, or run around behind blocking terrain and flank. These guys have demolished everything from troops to land raiders.

 

Sticking them with an rp will really slow them down though

 

Well the RP will be in the Rhino, advancing (depending on the opponent.) He is a very good defensive unit, but not exactly stellar in HtH. I'm glad to hear you have had success with them in even 1K games.... I gotta be missing something... typically mine are swamped by Ork Mobs, or saturated with IG firepower, or simply cannon-balled off the table by Mephiston....

 

 

In 1500 I'd run a Wolf Lord, thunderwolf, storm shield, wolf claw (I prefer the claw for all the lovely re-rolls) at 195 points, although if your gaming group is dominated by extra killy characters throwing on runic armour and bear or warrior born.

 

Yea see references to Mephiston above. He's nasty. He's the main reason I started using Arjac. Anyway, you are another advocate of a Mounted Lord. I'm not sure at this point if I should keep a Rune Priest in the list.... But I do like them.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

First HQ should always be a Rune Priest. I'd take the mounted Lord as a second HQ.

 

Without the wolf I don't see the point in taking a Wolf Lord.

 

Given Mephiston's prowess I'd take the full Monty Wolf Lord. Hammer, shield, wolf tooth necklace and saga of the bear. With average rolls he'll take Mephiston.

[Prot]

Again though, we are talking 1500 points here.

 

A mounted Wolf Lord AND a Rune Priest with a 295 point 4 man Squad?

 

Wow. Ok, well I gotta have room for Grey Hunters. What's a good discount Wolf Lord for a 3 man squad? Is there such a thing?

[Godhead]

To cut costs, you could run your lord (mine runes 290 or 295) and run a 3 man twc squad with a ss and th in it. The TWC will not be as durable overall, but pretty durable. An alternate not so hefty on the points comp would be a WGBL with RA/FB/SS/TWM/2x fenwolf for 210 points and then 3 TWC. 1 with SS, one with TH, one plain for another 210 points. Putting you at a net total of 420 points leaving you well over 1k for everything else. It's still very effective, but personally I like all the bells and whistles on my lord and I find the extra wound from the lord invaluable. You don't NEED the WTN, or the WTT, but they help. You don't need a saga, but I really like EW since I use my squad to assault the big nasty stuff, and guard dump down lots of str 10 these days.

 

 

I never choose a lord over the runepriest, unless i'm just goofing off, so a lord is always my 2nd HQ. My runepriest with JOTWW single handedly beat down a 1k ork list that included ghazgull with meganobs and warbikers and 2 squads of lootas. MH, LL, JOTWW are just absolutely wonderful powers to have vs anything. Meph will eat you TWC if he gets off sang sword (str 10) If you are fighting meph, it works well to try to get your runepriest up to put his 24" bubble on the table and hope to shut down his powers. If you force him to keep rolling for the jump power, he'll eventually eat some perils wounds. I switched from a powerfist to TH in my TWC because of meph. Hit him once and then he has trouble. I like the TWC with a lord because it forces people to split attacks which adds even more survivability to the calv.

 

Someone stated that they run two squads of two TWC and that works the same was as the lord, but at ld 8, I find that they will too often lose combat or break from shooting. I also prefer a WGBL or Lord in RA simply to help eat some of the ap3 shots that eventually come your way.

 

At 1500 points I run 3 grey hunter squads at a minimum. One or two packs always follows close behind the TWC. They typically engage a turn after the TWC. The thing you have to realize is that weight of fire kills TWC. Just like terminators. More shots >>quality shots (ie, plasma/ap3/etc). My TWC are expensive but they draw so much fire and force MULTIPLE units to be allocated toward killing them that my GH's are left to fight the real fight. TWC are not an I win. Poor use of them can handicap you simply because of how much you must invest in them to make them effective.

 

I like mine strong. I like mine able to take on MC's/Deathstars/Meph's and be able to win. The others use them like I've used howling banshees and simply counter attack with them. They keep the units small so that they can be hidden, waiting to come to the rescue of his battle brothers when needed. IMO both are valid and effective uses, it just depends on personal taste and the overall list composition.

 

You 1st need to ask yourself what role do you want them to fulfill in your list.

[Stormbrow II]

I'll be Devil's Advocate (or lawyery-a**hole).

 

1.) Do you take TWC in 1500 pts?

No. I used to but I don't rate them at all. Long-range firepower is better i.e. doesn't make you cry when you roll badly moving through terrain/fleeting for 2 turns in a row.

 

2.) If so, how large is the squad typically?

They started off 3, then moved to TWC Lords with a Wolfblob. I think the latter are better so I'd say 2 max.

 

3.) In an army with TWC do you think it is a better idea to take a TWC mounted Wolf Lord?

3.B ) If so, how is he typically configured?

Yes - you need something to buff their Leadership. At Ld 8 they'll run away if Tank Shocked 3 times. Statistically. He also has the option for a 2+ save and more hitting power. My favourite combos are: Hammer, Shield, Rune Armour, Talisman, Bear and Claw, Shield, Rune Armour, Talisman.

 

4.) In a TWC army, is the TWC typically your only assault unit or do you primarily use them as a support unit?

A support/counter-charge unit. They're not good enough as a Spearhead.

 

5.) With TWC in your list, do you think it effective to have a 'defensive' list, or an offensive list?

It depends. They can slot in in either but they'll have to be built differently. Solo TWCs are probably better in defensive lists while splashing the points on Lords is the order of the day with offensive lists.

 

6.) What HQ choice best compliments TWC? (on or off a Thunderwolf?)

WGBL on TWC are shocking, so its a Lord all the way. The Lord being with them buys him a bit more survivability and you can get cheap Psy-protection for the unit for 5 points which allows you to keep a Priest far away from them.

 

I ground out a lot of games with both TWC grunts and HQs and I'm just not that impressed with them to be honest. I think they're too expensive and strangely, too fragile, to earn their points back/place in the army consistently. Which is a pity. I've conjured up some thoughts here and here on why I wouldn't recommend them.

[Prot]

Interesting thoughts. I'll read your posts on your experiences with TWC later... (I assume they were written before you could face an army of Halbreads out of curiosity?)

 

Earlier I started a post in the army list area and I took the best advice given to me, and I think I will be using a Lord mounted. It's very hard in 1500, as you soon start to think you have to go vanilla with most other aspects of the list to actually accomplish anything.

 

In the past I have not been impressed with TWC, but I figure this will be my real attempt at getting these guys to work.

 

Thanks.

[Stormbrow II]

I'll read your posts on your experiences with TWC later... (I assume they were written before you could face an army of Halbreads out of curiosity?)

Oh God yes. Purifiers are even more reason for me not to take them, apart from a Bear Lord that isn't worried about Force Weapons but even then he's still 250+ plus.

[Godhead]

It's an Int 6 power weapon, it's how much different than furious charge terminators, they will still go 1st? They have no invuln save, they hit on 4's, they shouldn't typically get the charge, they need 5's to wound, OR if they use hammer hand, then they don't threaten you with ID. It's one or the other.

 

They are fearless, so if you win combat, they'll take fearless wounds. A 10 man squad with 2 psycannons, a hammer in a rhino is 305 points. Thats almost as much as a 5 man TWC unit. That also means that there are only 7 halberds and 1 hammer, as the psycannon models no longer have force weapons. A rune priest is murder on grey knights. My son played my wolves against me while i played grey knights and let me be honest, his runepriest and TWC won him the game.

 

IMO the sky is not falling. My all comers lists have absolutely everything (including the TWC) to allow me win vs grey knights. My TWC still has a place and one army won't make me stop taking them. Hell if any army should have done that, then dark eldar should have completely removed TWC from any list out there just in the off chance one would have to play them. Also psybolt ammo is really where it's at. Str 5 shots at a high rate of fire, that's what kills your TWC. I'm not afraid of them in CC.

[Prot]

Well I don't think anyone here is saying the sky is falling to be honest. It's just called using reasonable tactics. You don't take a knife to a gunfight, right?

 

Again, focusing on a 1500 point level game, the actual performance of the TWC becomes even more crucial because you simply don't have the points to cover for them if they are one shot wonders.

 

I agree that Dark Eldar poison is another massively available anti-toughness weapon to TWC. I don't discount it at all. I just know I won't be facing it tonight. :lol:

 

In your scenario with the TWC vs. Halbreds, the thing is you are relying on a lot to go wrong... you have to win the combat, you have to hope he doesn't would you 3-4 times with halbreds, and you have to hope you can cancel the psyker power (either through Rune Staff, or Wolf Tail Talisman).

 

I'm not saying it's a done deal. I would be outright lying if I did because I haven't played against Grey Knights since the codex came out. It just seems to be a match up that would be typically unsuccessful for TWC...

 

Obviously, I'm just throwing theory out there and seeing what looks good on paper right now, but it's not a match up I'd want. I think in my 1500 point list, my Wolf Lord, and 3 TWC consist of 400+ points? Nearly a third of my army.

[Ash Tekka]

I'm curious to see how your list performs as its not too far off of one I made last night. Luckily all I have to contend with is orks, chaos marines, blood angels or dark angels and eventually dark eldar(my wife, if she ever gets done building them)

[Voracioustigger]

I go back and forth on TWC. I use them a few games, people realize that concentrated bolter/heavybolter/multilaser fire will take them down pretty quick, and then I re-think of how to use them.

 

I think the biggest problem with TWC is that you can't hide them, and, when the rest of your army is in Rhinos or far away... the enemy would normally have to just waste bolter fire on your Rhinos so they could fire a heavy weapon or two at your Rhinos. So, if you go Mech, then TWC are just a huge fire magnet... but with only a 3+, they don't soak it up well.

 

I'm not a drop pod player, but I FEEL LIKE Pods + Long Fangs + TWC would make TWC a lot more effective. Your GHs might get shot to shreds when they come in, but TWC are a LOT better and safer in CC than out in the open. But then, of course, you just sacrificed your scoring units to get a deathstar unit into combat. That's good for KP games, but not objective.

 

I think the problem with using TWC as just a counter-assault unit is that they're a huge point sink. It's about 300pts for a pretty basic 4-man squad w/ no leader. It's hard to justify paying 300pts just to protect your Long Fangs.

 

 

Also... one more issue with TWC... not being able to climb floors... that can be a game changer.

[Voracioustigger]

I go back and forth on TWC. I use them a few games, people realize that concentrated bolter/heavybolter/multilaser fire will take them down pretty quick, and then I re-think of how to use them.

 

I think the biggest problem with TWC is that you can't hide them, and, when the rest of your army is in Rhinos or far away... the enemy would normally have to just waste bolter fire on your Rhinos so they could fire a heavy weapon or two at your Rhinos. So, if you go Mech, then TWC are just a huge fire magnet... but with only a 3+, they don't soak it up well.

 

I'm not a drop pod player, but I FEEL LIKE Pods + Long Fangs + TWC would make TWC a lot more effective. Your GHs might get shot to shreds when they come in, but TWC are a LOT better and safer in CC than out in the open. But then, of course, you just sacrificed your scoring units to get a deathstar unit into combat. That's good for KP games, but not objective.

 

I think the problem with using TWC as just a counter-assault unit is that they're a huge point sink. It's about 300pts for a pretty basic 4-man squad w/ no leader. It's hard to justify paying 300pts just to protect your Long Fangs.

 

 

Also... one more issue with TWC... not being able to climb floors... that can be a game changer.

[Prot]

Ok, so here's how it went...

 

I played Orks, Annihilation, and set up was Dawn of War... ugh.

 

His list was something like this:

 

Warboss with Mega Amoured Nobs in Truk

3 x 30 man Mobs, with fists.

1 x 10 Lootas

1 squad of 3 Kan walkers

1 truck of truckboys

 

 

He drastically outnumbered me, and I felt this would potentially be one of the worst matchups for a test, but there are a ton of ork players in my neck of the woods so it was a good test...

 

Oh and my list is linked to further up this post. I did decide to go with a WolfLord... but even a vanilla one is quite a bit for 1500 pt games.

 

I won to go first, could only deploy 2 Rhino's up high, then I forced him to deploy very deep with the 18" rule.... he was hating me for this as he was very squashed in his table edge. I moved my rhinos back on turn one to get one squad embarked, and the other was out.

 

Turn 1, my drop pod comes in, I put it closer to my side of center table.

His turn one he spills on.... he is climbing over himself in an attempt to get near me!

 

Turn 2, one long fang squad had got out of their rhino, and 'ran' up a floor. The Longfang squad without a ride (I took out a razorback) got lucky this turn and rolled a 6 to go up two floors!

 

So I start with Jaws, take out a fist, He is bitter, because he rolls fine for peons, but looses the fist!

 

I should back and say I started the TWC and Lord, deep, behind the rhinos... but in turn two I made a massive shift to my left to use the dense buildling terrain to slow him down, and bunch him up... I moved the TWC behind a building, and fleeted the up my left flank deep....

 

Turn 2-3:

Orks advance, lose another fist, shooting is bad, but he does get my drop pod, and a rhino!

 

I blow off some weapons on the Kans, but they are still ok.... I miss two turns in a row with a grand total of 10+ Frag Missile templates! Argh...

 

Turn 3-4

The TWC takes a chance, the fister is gone in the ork squad on my left flank, I roll an 8 to fly into him causing very poor damage... in total 5 orks die, (including with the Lord!) until my Thunder hammer TWC dude smacks another 4 down, and I made all my saves in return, orks are fearless and take a lot more wounds.

 

At this point my opponent cleverly removes Orks only in base to base with my Wolf Lord.... Why? Well he's making room for his war boss in mega armour to fist my Lord (Strength 10). He doesn't have enough room to get in with his other Mega armoured Nobs... thank the All Father!

 

Combat resumes on his turn, my lord slaps his Warboss around pretty good giving him 2 unsaved wounds... I take one in return from his remnant Ork Mob.... BUT now his Warboss hits and wounds 3 times! Ouch.... I have to make every one of these or I'm kaput! I save them all... and laugh ferociously showing off my pointy teeth.

 

He loses the overall combat (I kill more of his mob) and he runs! Both the mob, and his HQ and Mega Nobs!!!! Wow, so I stay within a few inches of him to make sure he can't rally..... but he continues to only run about 2 inches, then 3.....

 

In the middle things have gone nuts.... my RP is saving the day by pulling fists but now the TRuck boys are into it. My Fangs FINALLY do something killig the 3 Kans by turn 4. My Grey Hunters are doing ok, but finally a pivotal moment, I ask my opponent to tell me when his shooting phase is over, he does, and I tell him I'm using a banner (on a squad he quite obviously wants to rush). He hesitates on the decision knowing I have the banner working.....

 

He still rushes in... I counter attack, and roll boat loads of 1's! All turn into hits, he bounces off me, I wipe the squad. That is HUGE because it is right in front of my Longfangs.

 

Turns4-5.

I can't use my Wolf Lord or TWC Because they are still baby sitting the Ork Boss/Nobs off the table, they finally leave but this puts me out of the combat. I blow up two empty trucks for killpoints, take care of another mob.... at this point I am now winning 9 KP's to 5. My opponent can't win...

 

For the heck of it I rush my Rune Priest into close combat, he gets totally owned. (That was my opponent's 5th killpoint.) Stupid I know, but since I couldn't lose I wanted to try...

 

So we counted up the 9-5 win for me, he called it because he said he had too much broken or running...but I was getting seriously low on Grey Hunters at this point.

 

 

So it was a win, but believe it or not I did not have a good feeling about the TWC. I was super conservative with them and I only rushed a unit without a fist. I got lucky on saves or the Lord really should have been dead... that's a VERY expensive one shot death that almost happened. At the same time, although they were successful I had to babysit that squad til it ran off! Not good... that took my best unit out of the game even though it was healthy.

 

I gotta think about this, but I did pull this win off anyway. THanks for the advice.

[Kassill]

Sounds like a glorious victory to me! ;) Have an ale!

[Prot]

Thank you but the truth is I can't say I'm sold on the TWC... the victory felt very lucky. I used them as well as I could possibly imagine, but the real star was the Rune Priest! Zapping fists out of 30 man Mobs. My opponent was not amused.

 

I figure things could have easily went south if his Warboss (strength 10 fist) would have had any wounds go through.... Thank fully the All Father was watching on me. But I still felt very close to that maneuver not working out.

 

Another massively important tactic I used on his footbased army was a rhino wall to segregate his army to let the TWC hammer the Mob and Warboss squad.

[Martok]

Hey Prot,

 

I have been running Thunderwolves for a little over a year. I tried many different combos and lists but after every tournament I would get frustrated and change it up....

 

Eventually I came to something I was happy with:

Thunderlord - Thunderwolf, Saga of warrior born, Frost Blade, Belt of Russ, Wolf Tooth Necklace and Wolf Tail Talisman

4 thundercav - 1 hammer, 1 storm shield with melta bombs, 1 storm shield, plain

10 GH - Banner, PF, 2 x Melta, Rhino

9 GH - Banner, PW, 1 x melta, rhino with a Rune Priest (jaws and living lightning)

2 x 5 missile long fangs

4 x missile long fangs, 1 lascannon

 

The big thing I learnt with Thunderwolves is you have to be prepared to lose them.. If you are playing objective games (both d3+2 and home and away) you push the enemy into their deployment zone. If you survive with the whole unit your are going to make a mess of most armies back line but in all honesty its usually just my lord thats left to make a charge. However, that lord can put out 7 attacks always hitting on 3s and usually wounding on 2s... thats pretty awesome. Add to that the fact that next turn he will gain an attack for every wound he dealt in the previous turn and I avergae out 10 attacks after the first turn of combat!!!! Thats some heavy stuff.

 

Essentially my list is built so that my opponent can kill the thunderwolves quick or kill the long fangs quick either way one of those two elements will live and ruin his day. Use the grey hunters to go up behind the thunderwolves and take objectives and usually if the thunderwolves die whatever is left after that battle will walk into a gunline....

In KPs remember that almost 600pts of my army accounts for only 2 kill points so if I push the thunderwolves+ lord down their throat then after his whole army has shot at them he will get 2 kill points meanwhile my long fangs + rune priest (sniping living lightning at enemy APCs) should net way more kill points with the potential of racking up 7 in 1 turn.

 

The problem I have seen with people using their thunderwolves is they expect them to live through everything their opponent can throw at them and then stomp through the enemy lines... I have done this and it was awesome but its not feasible. The real strength is making your opponent drop his battle plan and devise one to kill the thunderwolves and at that point the rest of your army can cause havoc unimpeded. On the other hand if he pushes ahead with his plan and uses 1-2 units to fire on the thunderwolves then the thunderwolves will stomp through his lines.

 

Also remember at the very least you have a minimum of 19" threat range due to fleet and the cavalry charge meaning if you deploy central you can threaten almost the entire board form turn 2. Use the thunderwolves to herd your enemy away from the objectives and push them off the table.

In the end many people have given up on thunderwolves in favour of Razorspam and rune priest spam... I can see why as the MSU approach certainly has its benefits but I have cut down multiple units in multi charges (bare in mind the large base is very helpful for multi charging) and shooting just can't deliver the decisiveness of a decent assault phase.

 

WORD OF WARNING if you see a Vindicator or any other template with S10 and decent AP stay the hell away or you lose the whole unit in one shot.... it's happened it sucked but this is essentially a corner case and it was my fault for getting 24 inches right in front of the vindicator as long as you play smart and give the long fangs some time to take out that ordnance you should be fine. Also avoid plasma vets liek the plague a couple of units of them can put serious hurt onthunderwolves in one turn. Also higher than 1500pts I think Thunderwolves become less viable as your opponent can bring more guns capable of taking them down but at 1500 I find there is not enought to deal with them in one turn (other than the vindicator lol).

 

Sorry for the brain dump but I love these guys and though I might be able to help some brothers of the fang.

- Martok13

[Godhead]

Orks have always been one army that's been really hard on my TWC. They have the str 10 fists to remove your lords, or just LOTS and LOTS of attacks to force him to fail armor saves. I counter the str 10 fists with saga of the bear. I love warrior born, but IMO it's really not worth the 35 points simply because he does get targeted with things that will remove him without eternal warrior. Jaws and murderous hurricane are excellent tools vs orks though. Thunderlords are great, but if you are going to invest the points...then i think the 35points to keep him around vs all the ID out there is worth it. If you aren't going to do that..then consider a cheaper wgbl.

[Prot]

Thanks a lot Martok. I greatly appreciate the added advice.

 

Like I said, although I had a crushing victory, it felt more like my opponent's fault rather than my success... if you know what I mean. This has me very cautiously proceeding with TWC in 1500.

 

I do find a few things you said really interesting I'd like to quote:

 

Thunderlord - Thunderwolf, Saga of warrior born, Frost Blade, Belt of Russ, Wolf Tooth Necklace and Wolf Tail Talisman

 

This makes your Lord about 245 pts, to my Lord's 205 pts. The biggest real differences I can see is I have a 3+ save, to your 4+ and you have the considerable cost of Saga of the Warrior Born.

 

Interesting difference. I certainly benefited from the 3+.... in fact it kept him from outright dying. I trade off an attack and spend 5 more points... I'm tempted to keep that over something like the Wolftooth necklace which may ensure hitting someone but at WS 6, how often do you find you actually use the necklace?

 

I am not sure about this.... but definitely worth the thought.

10 GH - Banner, PF, 2 x Melta, Rhino

9 GH - Banner, PW, 1 x melta, rhino with a Rune Priest (jaws and living lightning)

2 x 5 missile long fangs

4 x missile long fangs, 1 lascannon

 

So for the 'uber' Wolf Lord, and one extra TWC, you are getting one more LongFang squad... I get a third troop (grey hunters) held together by 3 Wolfguard with fists/combi's..... I also discovered from my game with Dawn of War style reserves, the Razorback was pretty important.

 

The problem I have seen with people using their thunderwolves is they expect them to live through everything their opponent can throw at them and then stomp through the enemy lines... I have done this and it was awesome but its not feasible.

 

I agree. I have been guilty of this in the past... I found the hardest unit, stripped the fist, and I KNEW he was going to counter with the Warboss. I thought if I tarpit his HQ, all the better. He put the HQ right on me....which meant Warrior Born probably would have been useless in this game (My lord kind wiffed before the Mega Boss went toe to toe with him.)

 

But as far as using them, I was prepared to lose them and the 3 Grey Hunter squads had their work cut out for them.... but it went my way so it didn't come down to that.....

 

Also higher than 1500pts I think Thunderwolves become less viable as your opponent can bring more guns capable of taking them down but at 1500 I find there is not enought to deal with them in one turn (other than the vindicator lol).

 

Very interesting comment. Here I was assuming it would be the other way around because I could dump more points into the unit, but what you say makes sense....

 

Thanks a lot. Still tweaking the list. I really hate the thought of losing my Razorback.... he couldn't deal with all the armour 12 and I was razor zapping his Killer Kans.... also the 3rd troop is so nice.... ack. ;)