Trying to use Thunder Wolf Calvary in 1500 pts.

[Martok]

Orks have always been one army that's been really hard on my TWC. They have the str 10 fists to remove your lords, or just LOTS and LOTS of attacks to force him to fail armor saves. I counter the str 10 fists with saga of the bear. I love warrior born, but IMO it's really not worth the 35 points simply because he does get targeted with things that will remove him without eternal warrior. Jaws and murderous hurricane are excellent tools vs orks though. Thunderlords are great, but if you are going to invest the points...then i think the 35points to keep him around vs all the ID out there is worth it. If you aren't going to do that..then consider a cheaper wgbl.

 

Am i missing something... surely your thunderlord is T5 and it was ruled that its the basic stat line not 4(5) like death guard so you have to be hit by strength 10 for instant death and their just isn't that much s10 in the game. 60% at least of tournaments are marine or MEQ so your looking at powerfists and my T5 really couldnt care about that fist and half the time my lord kills half a squad and then the thunders finish the rest before a fist will hit my lord (btw i would never put my lord into base to base with any model that would allow that fist to then hit my lord) thus meaning i have no fear of losing my lord.

 

BTW I don't mean to sound like I'm saying your wrong its just I spent a long time with saga of the bear and I just didn't find i used it a lot but warrior born meant I could chew through large units and I genuinely want to know if I m missing something.

 

As to fighting orks I have always found that I have to hits one mob at a time. Hammer them with 3 x long fang packs then charge. At which point they should get battered and be under strength to the the fearless rule they have for mobs and then cut them down. If you don't soften them up first though you get stuck and then another mob or worse nob bikerz etc hit you.

 

- Martok13

[Prot]

Martok, the Warboss is strength 5... plus claw/fist is strength 10.

 

Also, although I agree with you in principle, gotta be aware of the ever popular Mephiston too (using psychic power.)

 

I'll give it another shot. Not sure if I'll change much for now though....

[Martok]

The biggest real differences I can see is I have a 3+ save, to your 4+

I see your point. I actually went back and forth on this but in the end I felt that the extra attack is not worth losing as every attack counts. In the end I think that will be very much personal preference but as I am also running warrior born every attack counts to give me more attacks in the following round.

 

I trade off an attack and spend 5 more points... I'm tempted to keep that over something like the Wolftooth necklace which may ensure hitting someone but at WS 6, how often do you find you actually use the necklace?

 

You make a very compelling question here... In all honesty looking back at this there is no reason for me to run it...

 

A further point worth making though regaring my build is when I can make combat I have to think hard on whether my lord is best suited charging an IC or another deathstar if the odds are not in my favour then I will usually send the unit in so the thunderhammer can attempt the instant death on the IC if at all possible and my Lord runs off into their infantry. This really explains the need for the extra attack that i would trade off with the storm shield and also the trade off between warrior born and bear. With the extra attack and warrior born I shred infantry. Its also worth bearing in mind that with my list if I dont think I can win a combat then i leave it to the long fangs to take out the unit and with cavalry movement and charge ranges you should be able to pick and choose your fights (not always but more than infantry at any rate).

 

So for the 'uber' Wolf Lord, and one extra TWC, you are getting one more LongFang squad... I get a third troop (grey hunters) held together by 3 Wolfguard with fists/combi's..... I also discovered from my game with Dawn of War style reserves, the Razorback was pretty important.

 

Was it important due to pushing the enemy back 18" or to get the long fangs in postion as they entered the board? If its the 18" personally I would not want to be pushing the enemy back that far as it makes the thunderwolves who will basically start on the board edge have to move even further up the board under fire. For moving the long fangs into position i can see the merit of this but moving on + run does the job for me.

 

In terms of the extra troop unit again this makes the list stronger for objective games but adds kill points. In my list my Grey Hunters are purely support (heresy I know <_<). Also I have toyed with manipulating points to get the wolf guard in but as one squad is led by the rune priest I already have a extra tank suppresion weapon in the form of living lightning as well as a force weapon which IMO is far better than an extra fist as you strike at initiative order and still deal instant death. The other squad could do with one but then I need to take a minimum of 3 so the effifiency of my list would compromise at that point basically meaning a full rebuild.

 

He put the HQ right on me....which meant Warrior Born probably would have been useless in this game (My lord kind wiffed before the Mega Boss went toe to toe with him.)

 

This is covered above to an extent. By mega boss I assume you mean a mega armour boss and if he was capable of taking you down then the extra speed you have should let you avoid him and then hammer him with the long range support while the thunders take on something softer as if you dont hammer units then you struggle taking your points back. Yes you can hit an expensive unit but then its a bit of a 50/50 situation. Also if your lord wiffed then... well he wiffed I hate those moments but they happen. Out of interest was that due to roll to hit and if so would a wolf tooth have helped? Either way I dont like charging guys who can mess up a very expensive unit and with my long fangs at the back of the board I usually leave them to it.

 

Thanks a lot. Still tweaking the list. I really hate the thought of losing my Razorback.... he couldn't deal with all the armour 12 and I was razor zapping his Killer Kans.... also the 3rd troop is so nice.... ack. :D

 

I dont get this? Razors are 11/11/10? Against orks you are definitely right but every other army in the game can make light work of AV11 whereas 6 long fangs takes a lot longer to deal with.

 

On the 3rd troop I cannot discount this. At 1750 I immediately pick up a min unit with razor and tl las to hold back field while the rhinos go mid field. I then get another Rune priest and put him with the other rhino unit with living lightning and hurracane. I think 1750 is perfect for thunderlists as you can get the solid cav unit with full fire support and the boots on the ground whereas at 1500 you need to draw a line or one or the other. Ironically i have found that line in my experience is the troops as you need the fire support to save your ass if the thunders wiff.

 

At 2000 your opponent has so many ap1/2/3 weapons plus weight of fire to make the thunders a liability.

 

To summarise the above thunders are powerful and they are more useful as a psychological weapon herding your opponent then anything else BUT they can be outclassed so picking your fights are important. My death company in storm raven are built to take on teh likes of thunderwolves with re roll to hit and wound form a chaplain and the raven giving them a 20" charge they are going to annihilate a thunder unit (but my lord will still hit them at the same time) so you really do have to be very careful with the fight you go for. They rock but they will die 75% of the time its jsut making sure that they kill 2-3 troop choices and then let the long fangs deal with the rest while the grey hunters wait for the enemy to go fo rhte long fangs. In almost every tournament I have gone to my opponents have shot the thunders or the long fangs but just dont have the shots to reliably take on Grey Hunters as well.

 

End of another wall of text LOL

 

- Martok13

[Prot]

I see your point. I actually went back and forth on this but in the end I felt that the extra attack is not worth losing as every attack counts. In the end I think that will be very much personal preference but as I am also running warrior born every attack counts to give me more attacks in the following round.

 

Warrior Born sounds really tempting, and I am sure I will try it, but I think I'll keep the shield for sure. This may sound superstitious, but when the Mega Armoured Boss when flying at my 'engaged' Wolf Lord, he wounded me three times (wounding on a 2+). I rolled two '3s' and a '5'.... Those '3s' would have meant instant death. Sounds crazy? Maybe but I take it as good enough reason to keep it for now. I'll keep track of how often it actually makes a difference.

 

I am thinking of dropping the Razorback, even though I only have 2 Long fang squads. I am thinking of using points to beef up the third Grey Hunter squad I have, and getting a 4th TWC in the squad. I think the cost of Warrior Born is just a bit less than another TWC... so I may go with an extra model (right now I'm using 3 Thunderwolves, +1 Thunderwolf Lord.)

 

I dont get this? Razors are 11/11/10? Against orks you are definitely right but every other army in the game can make light work of AV11 whereas 6 long fangs takes a lot longer to deal with.

 

Yup, but between 2 rushing Rhino's, a lascannon Razorback, and a Drop Pod (kill point), he was having trouble with target priority... does he go for an easy killpoint (drop pod)? Or smoke launcher using, rushing Rhino's? Or take down the lascannon Razorkback which is wrecking a Killa Kan a turn?

 

I see your point. The Longfang squad is more expensive, but more survivable. The Razorback is a mobile threat, that helps the Longfangs get into position... It's something to consider.

 

End of another wall of text LOL

 

Well I appreciate it. I would really like to make these guys work because I really enjoy the models I have, and want a reason to paint them! (Also tons of rumour floating around that the TWC are coming out from GW.)

 

Funny you mention Blood Angels though. I'd be lying if I didn't say they weren't a major consideration when making my lists. (I face off against 2 different BA armies on a fairly regular basis... one all deep striking, the other usually has a few 'blender dreads' as I call them, and Mephiston.

[Voracioustigger]

Not to add another question onto your long list...

 

But it might also be interesting to see how a TWC Lord + Fenrisian Wolves perform versus a unit of TWC. If you can consistently hide 1/2 your FWs behind rhinos, then you essentially have T4 4+ save models taking wounds, which is pretty nice at 8pts/model. Plus, you'll have about 100-150pts left over from the Wolves vs. the TWC.

 

It seems like... If the enemy is shooting at all TWC, then they probably WILL kill at least 1-2 on the walk over, which can really reduce their effectiveness. Versus the Wolves, the enemy will waste a LOT more firepower to make very little change in the overall effectiveness of the unit. If you have an IG player unloading 6 Chimeras at TWC, then you're looking at 3.5 wounds on your TWC vs. about 6 dead wolves... seems like a good tradeoff to me.

[Grimtooth]

At low points, I usually run my thunderlord with a nice healthy pack of Fenrisian wolves to soak up wounds. On the turn I am assaulting, I separate them in the movement phase to allow the Fenrisian wolves to tarpit a nearby unit and then toss the thunderlord into the targeted assault unit. Besides the tar pitting of the other unit with the Fenrisian wolves, this also prevents an opponent from loading up his attacks on the Fenrisian Wolves to win combat resolution against the thunderlord.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

With 5 mythicast wolves, a thunder lord, and a iron priest wolf that I'm still debating the use of, I'm continually pulled multiple ways on the configuration to choose.

 

With wolf claw and storm shield I think my thunder lord has the best of both worlds. With WS6 and strength 5 I can make re-rolls based on combat necessity. Most of the time re-rolling to hit is the best option. Generally against troops and many HQs it's 3+ to hit, 3+ to wound, so to hit is the most important roll. Against something like Plague Marines where it's 3+ and 4+ it's best to re-roll to wound. With the aforementioned Ork Warboss it's 4+ and 4+ so again it's best to re-roll to hit.

 

I am very tempted to do three of the wolves as the hammer, shield, plain combination, while doing the other two as single claw solo models.

[Prot]

At low points, I usually run my thunderlord with a nice healthy pack of Fenrisian wolves to soak up wounds.

 

Do you run him like this while taking a unit of Thunderwolf Calvary as well? Or is this just in 1500 pts?

 

 

With 5 mythicast wolves, a thunder lord, and a iron priest wolf that I'm still debating the use of, I'm continually pulled multiple ways on the configuration to choose.

 

With wolf claw and storm shield I think my thunder lord has the best of both worlds. With WS6 and strength 5 I can make re-rolls based on combat necessity. Most of the time re-rolling to hit is the best option. Generally against troops and many HQs it's 3+ to hit, 3+ to wound, so to hit is the most important roll. Against something like Plague Marines where it's 3+ and 4+ it's best to re-roll to wound. With the aforementioned Ork Warboss it's 4+ and 4+ so again it's best to re-roll to hit.

 

I am very tempted to do three of the wolves as the hammer, shield, plain combination, while doing the other two as single claw solo models.

 

Against a Warboss, should you not be hitting on a 3+?

 

My experimenting continues. In my armylist thread, I'm torn between beefing up the Lord, and just getting more Grey Hunters. I still think the Rune Priest is essential.... But I have not tried a Claw in my most recent experimentation. I don't know if the claw helps as much against the Dreadnoughts... weapon wise it looks cool, but I have to admit the Frost Blade strength sure is nice on marine/equivalents, and Orks!

[Grimtooth]

At low points, I usually run my thunderlord with a nice healthy pack of Fenrisian wolves to soak up wounds.

 

Do you run him like this while taking a unit of Thunderwolf Calvary as well? Or is this just in 1500 pts?

 

 

With 5 mythicast wolves, a thunder lord, and a iron priest wolf that I'm still debating the use of, I'm continually pulled multiple ways on the configuration to choose.

 

With wolf claw and storm shield I think my thunder lord has the best of both worlds. With WS6 and strength 5 I can make re-rolls based on combat necessity. Most of the time re-rolling to hit is the best option. Generally against troops and many HQs it's 3+ to hit, 3+ to wound, so to hit is the most important roll. Against something like Plague Marines where it's 3+ and 4+ it's best to re-roll to wound. With the aforementioned Ork Warboss it's 4+ and 4+ so again it's best to re-roll to hit.

 

I am very tempted to do three of the wolves as the hammer, shield, plain combination, while doing the other two as single claw solo models.

 

Against a Warboss, should you not be hitting on a 3+?

 

My experimenting continues. In my armylist thread, I'm torn between beefing up the Lord, and just getting more Grey Hunters. I still think the Rune Priest is essential.... But I have not tried a Claw in my most recent experimentation. I don't know if the claw helps as much against the Dreadnoughts... weapon wise it looks cool, but I have to admit the Frost Blade strength sure is nice on marine/equivalents, and Orks!

 

That is how I run him at 1500. At that level you need to run him a little more conservatively, picking soft targets for him, sometimes even holding him back a couple of turns to let your GH get into it and using him as the finisher.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Against a Warboss, should you not be hitting on a 3+?

 

My experimenting continues. In my armylist thread, I'm torn between beefing up the Lord, and just getting more Grey Hunters. I still think the Rune Priest is essential.... But I have not tried a Claw in my most recent experimentation. I don't know if the claw helps as much against the Dreadnoughts... weapon wise it looks cool, but I have to admit the Frost Blade strength sure is nice on marine/equivalents, and Orks!

 

Aren't Warbosses WS6? This is the bare bones version for a whopping 195 points so he doesn't have the wolf tooth necklace.