BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Black Orange - Little question for you. Just briefly, how do you think you'd fight against Paladins along the lines of your or Nurglez's (i.e 10 man Draigo deathstar) lists with a Blood Angel assault based force? I don't want to distract too much from the main thread but thought it'd be interesting being an experienced BA general as you are. RAS don't do enough damage to avoid dying once struck back - bolt pistols aren't much of a worry and the odd melta gun doen't have the chance for more than one kill really. DC are impaled on halberds before they hit. Lone Stormravens are left on the floor due to 6 psycannon pointed their way. Is there anything in a 'typical' BA assault force can do? Multiple assault with everything at once? Also, to everyone else, for us non-Paldins looking in on this is there anything (except for maybe Dark Eldar) that worries your 10 man squads? Any units you really, really don't want to see bearing down on you? Be interesting to see what you say B) GK deathstar is a bad matchup for BA DoA. I'm not going to try to blow any smoke about it either. I guess the only chance I could see is spamming as much melta as possible. G B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 I was thinking Calgar attached to Thunder Hammer Terminators in a Landraider might be seeing a revival in lists now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatman Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Great, just when hammernaters weren't over used enough ^_^ GW are doing a great job at monopolising certain units :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Black Orange - Little question for you. Just briefly, how do you think you'd fight against Paladins along the lines of your or Nurglez's (i.e 10 man Draigo deathstar) lists with a Blood Angel assault based force? I don't want to distract too much from the main thread but thought it'd be interesting being an experienced BA general as you are. RAS don't do enough damage to avoid dying once struck back - bolt pistols aren't much of a worry and the odd melta gun doen't have the chance for more than one kill really. DC are impaled on halberds before they hit. Lone Stormravens are left on the floor due to 6 psycannon pointed their way. Is there anything in a 'typical' BA assault force can do? Multiple assault with everything at once? Also, to everyone else, for us non-Paldins looking in on this is there anything (except for maybe Dark Eldar) that worries your 10 man squads? Any units you really, really don't want to see bearing down on you? Be interesting to see what you say :) GK deathstar is a bad matchup for BA DoA. I'm not going to try to blow any smoke about it either. I guess the only chance I could see is spamming as much melta as possible. G I beat a draigo deathstar unit of full wound allocation priest 7 halbards 2 swords, warding staff, a lib and 5 interceptors with 2 x 10 man assault squads a lib dread, Meph and a unit of honour guard with storm shields and lightning claws. If you don't use DoA you do fine, I won the combat by 16, needless to say the whole unit evaporated including draigo and the lib. With careful positioning you can use things like the lib dread to absorb paladin attacks that cant hurt the dread use assault marine to absorb the paladin attacks and use the power fists in the unit to smash up the paladins. If you just head long into a death star unit of course you will come off bad. If you learn to use the advanage of speed and fight the assaults on your terms make his models fight certain models in base to base you can win these quite easily. An assault BA army will do fine against paladins if it set up correctly. obviously using decent of angels is useless but you should need it, FnP means most of their storm bolters and psycannon shots will just bounce off you. Regards, Crynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I guess if you wanted to tailor your list to beat this deathstar then take HG and VV with lots of stormshields and close combat weapons that ignore armor saves plus some melter pistols. For HQ I'd take the Sanguinor and Dante. Dante runs with an SG squad loaded out with melter pistols. Alpha strike shooting your meltas at the biggest threats first. You'll have to rely upon the stormshields versus the force weapons. Furious might work but stay away from the Libby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Yeah that would work. But like you said very tailored. This specific list I was running wasn't tailored, It was my friends blood angels and he was using my Grey Knights and wondering how the hell he can deal with the paladins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noober Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 4x TWC lords with eternal warrior, fist and SS. Pretty much impossible to kill before they will hit back and they will most likely win the combat by killing multiple 2 wound models. But tailoring lists fails... What I would do is tank shock them as much as possible, block them, feed them with cheap sacrificial units, avoid them like a plague and take advantage of their slow speed. Also forcing paladins go first on objective missions really sucks. They have very limited amount of scoring units and it will be easy to tank shock / contest those few objectives if you have MSU spam list for example. Some of you have been mentioning vindicators and obliterators. Both of them fail imo. When I face Vindicators I make sure I'm having max coherency. It has the same range as my guns and trust me, it won't be shooting more than one round. Obliterators....75 points for a non-twin-linked lascannon, no I'm not scared with draigo getting the first shot and the rest having 3+ cover. Plasma cannons suffer when I have max coherency. I would point my lascannons etc to everything else except the huge squad and only shoot them after everything else is destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 You cant have 4 thunderwolf lords with EW, the EW saga is one per army. Regards, Crynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Actually using the Grand Strategy and combat squads GK can have four to five scoring units easy. G ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zagman Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Bump... Nurglez, any new DriagoWing updates for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 Nah, sent my paladins off to someone to paint them for me, which coincided with a break from them to stop annoying my friends heh, assuming they are ready in time I shall be taking them to return of kthulu on the 3rd of September, 1750 points 1 day tourny. I'm still unsure what to add to my force, heavily leaning towards a pimped out libby and some more MC'ed weps, but could get a psyrifle dread, or another DK, or add an apoth to my force... So many choices and I just don't know heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zagman Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Hmm, how about adding two PsyRifleDreads to your 1500pt list? I feel that 1750 is far too soon to be adding a second HQ and that that Long Ranged Firepower will give you a lot of mileage. You should throw your list up and let us C & C it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune_Priest_Rhapsody Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 So this past Monday, I competed in a one night 1000 point single elimination tournament. I took: Draigo 10 man Paladin Squad with- -Psycannon/MC Daemon Hammer -Psycannon/Daemon Hammer -Psycannon/MC Halberd -Psycannon/Halberd -Apothecary -MC Halberd -Halberd -MC Force Sword -Force Sword -Force Sword The tourney was set up on the FOC as 1 HQ and 1 Troop, perfect. The organizer would roll deployment and type for each of three matches. 1st Match vs. Chaos Space Marines (Dawn of War and Annihilation) He was running a Daemon Prince and a twenty Chaos spawn, Defiler with TL Las, and a squad of Thousand Sons in a Rhino with a Sorcerer with Bolt of Change and some other dumb ability. I won the roll and let him go first reserving my "army". He brought on the Rhino, the Defiler, and the Prince. I rolled on T2 and came in, rolling nine inches off of my intended mark. This landed me less than five inches in front of the Defiler which I knew needed to die off the bat. I didn't need any Las shots picking off my spendy troops. I fired all four Psycannons and blew the vile contraption to smithereens. He shot at me on his T3 with the Prince and the Sorcerer, both powers bouncing off of Draigo's shield. At this point I warned him (again) about my armies Preferred Enemy: Daemons, he assaulted me anyways... I splattered the Prince with no problems. He would roll a 1 until T5 for his Lesser Daemons when they auto landed poised for the assault. That assault went horribly bad for him as well. We went to turn 7, and at the end of it he had three Thousand Sons left, everything else was a smoldering pile of rubble or a festering corpse. I did not get a single wound or lose a single model. 2nd Match vs Dark Eldar (Capture and Control and Pitched Battle) This was against my good friend whom I have been slaughtering in several practice games the past two weeks. Nothing changed for this game. I blew up his Ravager (the three Dark Lance Boat) right off the bat. Less DL = good. This is of course after I can in on T3, the top of T3!! I camped my objective with killing off all of his Hellions and Speedy Bikers he used to try and contest my objective. When T5 rolled around I rolled a one and ended the game in a tie. In this situation, the winner would be the player who possessed the most kill points. This player was me by a long shot. So here is where I prove that I am a nice guy. :) My DE playing buddy, whose name is Mike was celebrating his Birthday this day. So I gave him the win as a kind gesture, plus he was hurting to deal out some pain the other top player. Guard. He didn't. He lost both of his scoring units by T3 and it was an objective based game. It was horrible to watch, he stood little to no chance of getting a win. I was vocal about my decision to give the win to Mike to the other players as I wanted to drum up a little celebration in his honor. This worked well for me as the Guard player asked me if I wanted to play a game that if I won, he would give the prize to me. "uh, yeah of course I will", I replied. We will be playing this game this coming Monday. He is running a Vendetta with it's three TL Lascannons. This is the only this I am worried about, that and the outflanking tanks. His shooting game is all AP4 and up for the most part after that is dealt with. I have every amount of confidence that I will win, as I have already seen fear and worry in his eyes. I will post this out come and all of the details in a few days from now. End of Line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Good luck against the guard. That is always a tough match for me. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 Hmm, how about adding two PsyRifleDreads to your 1500pt list? I feel that 1750 is far too soon to be adding a second HQ and that that Long Ranged Firepower will give you a lot of mileage. You should throw your list up and let us C & C it. Except that I only really have 1 psyrifleDread to add, and I do want a libby for psychic defence/buffs... My list is draigo, 10 paladins (4 psycannons, 1 falchions, 2 hammers 2 swords rest halberds) 5 paladins (2 psycannons, 1 hammer, 1 sword halberds): 3 mc weps spread over the 15 paladins to help with wound allocation, and then a dreadknight with PT, GS and HI, that comes to 1500 points. If I add a lone psyrifle dread I cant really afford anything else that I own, as said I want a libby because of the buffs (might, shrouding and sanctuary are awesome and I feel I need them). I guess I could add a second DK with HI and PT instead, but as my second DK comes with a HI I couldn't add him without a PT and a dread, as they cost to much. Basically, on top of my 1500 point army, I have a storm raven, landraider redeemer/crusader, 2 libby models, a techmarine, 1 dk with HI, and a psyrifle dread. Oh and Well done Rune_Priest_Rhapsody, good luck vs imperial guard. If he is smart he will stay back and pop you with lascannons, so don't let him be smart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share Posted August 20, 2011 Bump, I put up a few ideas for my list for return of Kthulu, they are here, any input would be appreciated :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddlesHeretics Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 How did it go against the imperial guard? Also, have you tried it against another small-model-count force? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 I did play vs a logan wing list, which had 2 raiders, 15 terminators including Arjac, logan, rune priest and a wolf priest. But it was my opponents first game with a logan wing style list, and "I beat him into the ground like a blond tent peg". A link to the battle report is here. ps bonus points if you know where my quote is from, answers on a post card and post them in the bin ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemisor Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 hey nurglez, this is good stuff man, keep it coming. I am looking at doing a Draigo wing myself ( for mainly 1850 tournaments) but i am having trouble convincing myself that 20 models is an actual army :lol: .it just doesnt seem quite right for 20 models (no matter how good) to be matched up against the top 10 or so players in my country. do you think they are that good? or is it a case of some matchups will eat draigo wing and some will be eaten? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 do you think they are that good? or is it a case of some matchups will eat draigo wing and some will be eaten? There are more than a few threads on how to deal with the Draigo wing. My personal favorite is the one over in the Ultras forum; those guys know what they're on about. Triple vindicator lists will be exciting at best, a huge problem at worst. Stacked Dev squads with MMs (or the super expensive lascannons) will also hurt a lot. Tri-las Predators. Single-shot anti-tank weapons aren't a problem (e.g. a single melta gun in a unit) as you can just allocate them to Draigo...but if they hit you with more than one S8+ AP2 shot at a time, you stand a good chance of losing an entire Paladins, both wounds on a 5+. Just remember to allocate wounds to the guys you like the least first so you have 1w guys to stick those nasty Instant Death saves on. :lol: Nobz have been doing it for years, and we have far better saves than they do. ADDENDUM: You know, it's funny...I hadn't even thought to look for this until now. But, Draigo is the only model in the dex with Eternal Warrior. Probably not an accident, as I just thought "Man, it'd be a really good idea to stick a second model on that unit with EW." Apparently Ward thought the same thing. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 ps bonus points if you know where my quote is from, answers on a post card and post them in the bin :lol: the mighty boosh? anyhoo, how does a draigowing deal with land raiders, surely youve got little that can scratch it with shooting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune_Priest_Rhapsody Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 How did it go against the imperial guard? Also, have you tried it against another small-model-count force? The coward never showed!! Actually, he called and said he was not feeling well, so we rescheduled the game for this coming Monday. I have not played against another small count army either, but like Nurglez, I too play Logan Wing (and Death Wing, and a DOA list...) so I have a good deal of experience when it comes to tactics with low model count. I must say though, the ability to deep strike and having access to an Apothecary make this army MUCH more aggressive than Logan Wing!! I used Daemon Hammers to deal with LR's myself, not that it's a new or exciting tactic... End of Line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zagman Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 ps bonus points if you know where my quote is from, answers on a post card and post them in the bin :) the mighty boosh? anyhoo, how does a draigowing deal with land raiders, surely youve got little that can scratch it with shooting? Psycannons outperform a Lascannon...and we have 2-4 per unit. MOT from a Librarian works. DreadKnights with GreatSwords work. They are surprisingly not a huge issue. The THSS Termies that tend to ride in them that are the real issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Land raiders aren't really too difficult for Draigowing + most of the time the stuff that comes out of them just bounces off the paladins so you can ignore them. Not to mention 2 of the 3 variants have little in the way of ranged weaponary that harm paladins even 2 twin las isn't amazing with draigo in there. Regards, Crynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 ah yeah, i keep forgetting those psycannons have rending.. do guys really think 5 hammernators can take on paladins, even with a 3++ you can force enough power weapon wounds to wipe them out before they strike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.