Dante vs. Sanguinor

[Capt.blood]

Dante handsdown. Much more reliable. Totally different characters though which impact the list in a different way, so it's a bit of a weird question.

 

Let's face it: Sanguinor is about as hard to kill as 3 TH/SS termies. On average that is. (assuming no FnP or assuming things ignoring his armour save) Sometimes you roll a couple of 1's and ask yourself where your 275 point character just went.

 

Personally, I play with both; it's my 'fun' army basicly, weak enough so that I can play it in my club against anyone without feeling ashamed while still ensuring I get fun games (I like the concept a lot):

 

Dante 225

Sanguinor 275

Honor Guard; (3 meltas, 1 flamer, 2 Storm shields, 1 Fist; mixed around) 260

Honor Guard; (3 meltas, 1 flamer, 2 Storm shields, 1 Fist; mixed around) 260

Sanguard; 2 infernus pistols, powerfist 230

Sanguard; 2 infernus pistols, powerfist 230

10 ASM; 2x melta, TH + SS 260

Total: 1750

Sanguinor's blessing initiative is wasted on the TH. Why not a Lightning claw?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

He said it's his fun army. I don't think he is intimately familiar with our special mechanics.

 

G :o

[Zhukov]

Haha, no I am, just because I don't play competitevely with them doesn't mean I don't know how to do that. You 2 actually make a classic mistake: Just because you gain a stat boost somewhere doesn't mean that using that is always a good choice. I like having a Ws5 3 Attack base Thunder hammer much more than extra 'power weapon' attacks which Dante, Sanguinor and both of my Sangguard squads have. That Thunder Hammer is also VERY hard to snipe. Basicly its one of the best Thunderhammer/Powerfist platforms in the game heh.

 

Putting a Lightning claw on him is wasting much more :lol:

 

You might not understand all the mechanics yourself:

It's all about how you play them but with the Sanguinor you never have to worry. Sure you roll all ones for his saves but the same could happen to Dante as well.

False, Dante hides in a squad and Sanguinor is on his own.

[Brother Nathan]

though at the same time a vindicator could destroy dante and his unit with a single shot, which it simply wont with the sanguinator...

[Elsven]

though at the same time a vindicator could destroy dante and his unit with a single shot, which it simply wont with the sanguinator...

 

 

If your playing right this should never happen because you are spreading your men out as far as possible. At most a blast template should get 3 or 4 guys, also if your using your cover well you will get 4+ cover saves on all of them.

[Zhukov]

though at the same time a vindicator could destroy dante and his unit with a single shot, which it simply wont with the sanguinator...

Lol. Irrelevance ftw?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I actually run all my sergeants with a thunderhammer and stormshield in my DoA list - pretty much for the same reason (VV sergeant has a power fist and stormshield). ;)

 

If you're playing a good opponent then there is the chance that eventually Dante's bodyguard will die. You might be able to attach Dante to another squad... Maybe not. There will be times when he has to take several armor saves at once.

 

G ;)

[Zhukov]

If you're playing a good opponent then there is the chance that eventually Dante's bodyguard will die. You might be able to attach Dante to another squad... Maybe not. There will be times when he has to take several armor saves at once.

And what's your point? I don't hope you mean that because of this you see Sanguinor and Dante being just as vulnerable, if you do then... well then... I dunno, world will explode.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

 

G :tu:

[Deschenus Maximus]

That saying Dante is as vulnerable as Sanguinor is erroneous. Significantly so.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I've had the Sanguinor survive just as many games as Dante if not more. It's all about the application.

 

G :D

[Brother Nathan]

i dont see how its irellivant. seriously. dantes guard is likely to be sanguard. and maby a priest. if not its hounourguard. so really its a small unit. now also it will be deepstriking to make use of dantes special rule. which sure youll try to position so they dont get blasted, but it can happen. sure you can play to make it harder to happen, but tanks do move. so that dosent always work. and your not likely to go near terrain due to difficult/dangerous terrain checks. saying it wont hapen at al... is worse than... well the fluff in our dex. if your that self assured in your tactics then i salute you but somehow i dought it. and i only used the vindicator as an example but most armys do have some form of access to a str8+ ap2/1 ordinance weapon somewhere. dante only needs to have one save to take and he can die. it is a possibility you cant ignore. and yes you have sheild, but likely you wont just have one thing on its own shooting at your unit. for the price of dante and his unit you could probably have2/3 vindicators anyway.

and im not saying the sanguin is far better, but he has strengths that dante dosent and weaknesses too.

[Mykra]

ame='Capt.blood' date='May 8 2011, 01:41 AM' post='2750669']

Sanguinor's blessing initiative is wasted on the TH. Why not a Lightning claw?

 

I do the same with all my Sgt's when I use the Sanguinor, it's hardly a waste. You have a WS5, S8(9), W2, A3 mini-captain who can't be picked out of a squad. It's dead killy.

[Elsven]

i dont see how its irellivant. seriously. dantes guard is likely to be sanguard. and maby a priest. if not its hounourguard. so really its a small unit. now also it will be deepstriking to make use of dantes special rule. which sure youll try to position so they dont get blasted, but it can happen. sure you can play to make it harder to happen, but tanks do move. so that dosent always work. and your not likely to go near terrain due to difficult/dangerous terrain checks. saying it wont hapen at al... is worse than... well the fluff in our dex. if your that self assured in your tactics then i salute you but somehow i dought it. and i only used the vindicator as an example but most armys do have some form of access to a str8+ ap2/1 ordinance weapon somewhere. dante only needs to have one save to take and he can die. it is a possibility you cant ignore. and yes you have sheild, but likely you wont just have one thing on its own shooting at your unit. for the price of dante and his unit you could probably have2/3 vindicators anyway.

and im not saying the sanguin is far better, but he has strengths that dante dosent and weaknesses too.

 

Fist of all Dante has Surgical strike, if you read the rules you do not scatter when deep striking. This means you can put him wherever you like, so the only way he will not go where you want him to go is if you put him in the wrong place. Second of all If you play him properly he will be in your hammer unit meaning that he is not always going to be the first unit in combat. Also since he and his squad get hit and run it means you cannot be locked into combat. You will tike an initiative test against his initiative (so anything but a 6 and you get to run) and go 3d6 in ANY direction of your choosing. With this said, if you fire enough rounds at anything it will go down. You can go right ahead and concentrate everything on Dante and try to kill him while I destroy the rest of your army, or you can take out my my VV and supporting units so Dante becomes useless. Too say that Dante is overpriced and not useful is all a mater of perspective. To you and how the synergy of your list works he maybe useless however with other lists he may shine bright and true. To answer the question in the thread you have to ask yourself what works best in the list you play with. Both character work very well if used in the correct list, this list may involve on or the other or even both but it all depends on your playing style.

 

Also for the record, if you have vindicators on the field that is most likely the things that are going to be gone the turn I com in on. The important thing to think about in a DOA list is prioritizing your threats knowing that your opponent will get one round of shooting in before you. And if you have more then one on the table I have another 8 meltas on the table and a VV squad to lay on the hurt before you can shoot. Also before you say anything further you still have to not scatter off him with your 2d6 scatter(About 1 to 5 inches on average) and you have to have a direct line of sight. In the many games I have played with Dante I have yet to loose him in a game I did not get tabled in. Almost always he is the last guy to go down, the only two exceptions were when he rolled ones on his 4 2+ armor saves and his FNP saves (My dice really hated me those two nights).

[Leksington]

Hey guys, I heard that models I field can die. Is this true? :lol:

 

Dante doesn't have Eternal Warrior. Sanguinius doesn't get to hide in a unit. Who is more vulnerable? Both! Neither! In different situations one is more vulnerable than the other (and you can take steps to mitigate the risks that they are exposed to); I don't see the reason to argue over who is more vulnerable since it is so situational.

[bloodangelguy]

Wow thank you all for the replies! I think since my tournament is a fluctuating points value I will try 3 different setups at the 3 points costs: 1250 (just libby) 1500 (libby and/or Dante) 1750 (Libby and/or Sanguinor) I will post my army (armies) in the army lists section within a day or two and you can check it out if you guys want and give opinions as to which of the two fits into my lists better. Thanks again for all the replies and keep them coming :)

[Brother Nathan]

Fist of all Dante has Surgical strike, if you read the rules you do not scatter when deep striking. This means you can put him wherever you like, so the only way he will not go where you want him to go is if you put him in the wrong place. Second of all If you play him properly he will be in your hammer unit meaning that he is not always going to be the first unit in combat. Also since he and his squad get hit and run it means you cannot be locked into combat. You will tike an initiative test against his initiative (so anything but a 6 and you get to run) and go 3d6 in ANY direction of your choosing. With this said, if you fire enough rounds at anything it will go down. You can go right ahead and concentrate everything on Dante and try to kill him while I destroy the rest of your army, or you can take out my my VV and supporting units so Dante becomes useless. Too say that Dante is overpriced and not useful is all a mater of perspective. To you and how the synergy of your list works he maybe useless however with other lists he may shine bright and true. To answer the question in the thread you have to ask yourself what works best in the list you play with. Both character work very well if used in the correct list, this list may involve on or the other or even both but it all depends on your playing style.

 

Also for the record, if you have vindicators on the field that is most likely the things that are going to be gone the turn I com in on. The important thing to think about in a DOA list is prioritizing your threats knowing that your opponent will get one round of shooting in before you. And if you have more then one on the table I have another 8 meltas on the table and a VV squad to lay on the hurt before you can shoot. Also before you say anything further you still have to not scatter off him with your 2d6 scatter(About 1 to 5 inches on average) and you have to have a direct line of sight. In the many games I have played with Dante I have yet to loose him in a game I did not get tabled in. Almost always he is the last guy to go down, the only two exceptions were when he rolled ones on his 4 2+ armor saves and his FNP saves (My dice really hated me those two nights).

 

again i didnt say dante was bad, nor even that the sanguinator was better. and yes i know that dante has pinpoint drop. that wasnt a weakness. the weakness he faces that way is that you will prettymuch always deepstrike him. and sure youll go where you want. but a good opponent will have his army placed out in such a way so as to deal with this eventuality. a plasma cannon round can easily ruin his unit. (fnp and armour ignored so youd be relying on inv saves.) your opponent would be a fool to let dante and a full unit of whatever just waltz straight into their lines. especially if they dont have a proper counter charge unit in their list that can handel it. and a scatter of about 3 inches is still gonna hit some of the unit. ord isnt that un reliable btw. it has a 1in 3 chance of instantly hitting and then when it soes scatter its 2d6-4 for most armys(ok 2 for orks, 3 for guard, cant rember do eldar have a 4 or 3...)average roll of 2d6 is a 7. 7-4 is 3. will likely still hit some of the unit. and can still scatter onto another unit too.

 

though really to be honest if im investing those points into my army i will go astrorath. he buffs the whole army and is a chaplin with a relic blade turbo... sure his fluff sucks but his rules are great(i, like many others, use him as my chaptermaster for my storm angels...)

[bloodangelguy]

My list(s) are up in the Army list section for you to check out if you please (named bloodangelguy's DOA lists)