SW Codex

[Simo429]

There are loopholes in all codecies which is what this thread is about, just because there is such a loop hole doesn't mean it should be used.

[Schertenleib]

There are loopholes in all codecies which is what this thread is about, just because there is such a loop hole doesn't mean it should be used.

 

 

Okay, I'll bite. What not use it?

 

It's not like saving such small amounts pointswise is going to be the game winner.

[JamesI]

GW probably should have put in a clause that the free weapon at 10 marines must be the cheaper of the two, but they didn't. Oh well. Its at most a small savings.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

There are loopholes in all codecies which is what this thread is about, just because there is such a loop hole doesn't mean it should be used.

 

 

Okay, I'll bite. What not use it?

 

It's not like saving such small amounts pointswise is going to be the game winner.

 

Mmmm.

 

If you have 1 Mg and I have 2, then I win, clearly.

 

If you have 20 Mg and I have 21, then the difference is small. However, all things being equal, I will be winning more if the dice are reasonably similar.

 

I'd say people know that getting 'a little bit more' is desirable and therefore leads to wins. Otherwise, if it meant nothing, why would people do it? If it means nothing, people would not do it as they can see it is a loop-hole.

What shop says buy one thing get another thing free, and allows you to take home a $200 item for free, after paying for the $5 item?

 

Whilst I have taken the argument to an extreme, it shows that what you are saying is not quite right. :)

[skoll]

but the maximum saving you can ever get is 60 points

 

and thats in every single one of 6 troop choices taking a free flamer then taking a plasma gun for free.....and honestly you've just cost your army versatility and performance. I think its blown slightly out of proportion

[Marshal Wilhelm]

but the maximum saving you can ever get is 60 points

 

and thats in every single one of 6 troop choices taking a free flamer then taking a plasma gun for free.....and honestly you've just cost your army versatility and performance. I think its blown slightly out of proportion

 

If it doesn't give you an [unfair] advantage, why are you doing it?

 

You can dismiss our claims, but if 60 pts isn't important to you, then you won't mind not taking it then, eh?

 

Grey Hunters and Long Fangs are known to be too cheap for what they do, even by Wolf players. The Runepriest is widely seen as the best bang for buck HQ in the game. Consistently we see these underpriced units getting spammed in lists. Why? Because they are too good in value to not take them.

 

Why do you need to cream on the cream of an already strong Codex?

[Mr. Danvers]

This old assault weapon issue again. I really don't understand the flak that our book gets about it.

 

We get a free 12" range (not including stationary plasma) and everyone else gets a free 24-48" heavy weapon, and we're told it's unfair. Our book just plays a different way to standard SM, that's all. Personally, I think getting a free Missile launcher that you leave behind with a few guys is more useful than a free meltagun, that doesnt get used for the turns where you have to get up into range. If we didn't get the PG/MG/Flm option, people would be screaming left right and centre about us having way too many ML shots in one turn.

 

Different books just do different things. I don't understand why BA have to get different vehicles with the Stormraven, fast engines & psychic dreads. I'm sure BT players would say that they are an assault based force? (Correct me if Im wrong, every BT army Ive played against just rushed at me) Yet, they don't get any fancy vehicles to help them into assault. The fluff of going 'The BA just tell the Mechanicus to go away' to explain it is pretty weak anyway. Why does no other chapter put Libs in dreads? etc. You get the point.

 

Normal marines get many more choices in their book that we don't get, like close combat dreadnoughts, scout landspeeders, conversion beamers and the massive cannon I can't remember the name of ;). Teleport homers and locator beacons would be nice for our pods and swiftclaws too :).

 

Yet, I continue to see people saying that our book is stupid cause we get tac squads with close range options rather than free heavy weapons and our Dev equivalent can split fire.

 

As far as the whole 'don't bend the rules arguement goes' - yes, I agree, but it's clearly not set out in a way to not take the more expensive options. The simple addition of 'may take a second weapon from this list, of cost equal or less than the first choice' would solve it. Also, I've run into way too many people that would happily stamp on your favourite model if it meant they won the game that I don't really see that 'don't bend the rules' as a point in this game anymore.

 

Probably why I only play people I already know at 40k really.....

[Wolf Lord Hallbjorn]

Every time a new codex hits the shelves, all we hear is "OMG!! THAT'S SOOOOO OVERPOWERED AND BROKEN! IT'S NOT FAIR THAT THEY CAN DO THAT STUFF AND MY ARMY CAN'T!"

 

Apparently some people want every army to be exactly the same and do the exact same things and nothing different. So, they basically want there to only be one army. People cry all the time about how this doesn't balance with that and this and that should be cheaper or more expensive because something similar in their army is a different cost. I challenge those people to completely "balance" all the armies of 40K while retaining their individuality and flavor.....it won't be as easy as you claim it should be for GW to do it.

 

Come on, guys and gals. It's a game and it was created by a group of people that tried their best to make it fair. There are as many different opinions on every conceivable issue in life as there are people on the planet. You can't make everyone happy. Sometimes you can barely make a majority happy. Either you choose to play the game or you don't. If something doesn't sit well with you, then discuss it with your opponent or tournament organizer and try to reach a suitable compromise. If you can't, then don't play. With so many things being left vague and the whole RAW vs RAI issue, 90% of gripes have to be settled on a case by case basis between the people involved. To claim that "this is the way it should be because that's how i see it" is ignorant of the fact that not everyone agrees with you. You are not always right. It happens. We're human.

 

As far as our codex being "broken" or "too cheap for what it does", I look through the vanilla marine dex and see quite a few things that we cannot do. We lost the ability to do a lot of things that the vanilla chapters can do and we gained others. It could have been like another chapter's new codex and we could have retained all "vanilla" abilities while gaining extra on top of that with little variation in cost. Our favorite troops get counter attack, different gear, and short range weaponry. Vanilla marines can split their troops and throw in heavy weapons. Vanilla marines have different sets of cool veterans. We sort of get that rolled up into one unit without the special rules. If you follow fluff, our terminators don't deep strike. Our scouts are elite and our secondary troops have the statline of a vanilla scout, which is unfortunate since they're our assault troops.

 

It's different. Not better, not worse. Different.

[the jeske]

We get a free 12" range (not including stationary plasma) and everyone else gets a free 24-48" heavy weapon, and we're told it's unfair.

when you build an identical build with chaos as you do with SW you end up with enough points to buy a whole pred. It is not just the case 2 specials .

Normal marines get many more choices in their book that we don't get, like close combat dreadnoughts, scout landspeeders, conversion beamers and the massive cannon I can't remember the name of tongue.gif. Teleport homers and locator beacons would be nice for our pods and swiftclaws too tongue.gif.

the difference is that ccw dreads suck . scout LS and beamers [and to use them you are forced to take a forge master on a bike , else it is too static] are not needed for SW armies and thunders are too situational . And no one save for RW has homers on their bikers . IF one judges other dex that way then you also forgot the so awesome venguard from the loyalist dex too.

2 specials or the option to have 3 special ccw weapons per squads without making it cost too much would be awesome in any army , no matter what kind of an army is played.

 

Yet, I continue to see people saying that our book is stupid cause we get tac squads with close range options rather than free heavy weapons and our Dev equivalent can split fire.

you get troops that do stuff . loyalist main goal in 2/3 of games is to hide , the parts that actualy work for the army to win are not troops. SW can do short range , can do assault , can do razorbuilds without buying extra models . And compering to the other close range/assault army in the game yours has better support , more options and cheaper stuff. Does that explain why people view SW dex the way they do .

BA and GK have build in flaws , that make the armies hard to play at top level . SW , almost like IG , play themselfs no matter if you play casual or top tournament level . No other army , save for BT maybe , has such a synergy like SW . Does it have units that suck ? sure . but SW dont have to use the suck units to play . A BA player cant do nothing about the cost of his units and a GK player can do nothing about his plasma problem , neither can chaos player change the fact that he has more or less 1 list with offten less then one option per slot .