Ideas for fighting G.K

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

I thought we might try to brainstorm something up for different B.A builds.

 

I myself play DoA, so... well. As you can imagine, huge succes isn't exactly had (2l/1w).

 

The win came from the introduction of a Plas H.G with a libby (FotD, shield). Getting FotD off on GK isn't that bad w LD 8, and the plasmaguns screw them good.

The squad ran 2 GKSS off the table, shoot up some purifiers and then had themselves a glorious death. Needles to say, that disruption was big enough to hand me them game.

So my tip for DoA:

 

Honour Guard, 4 x Plasmagun, 1 x Libby w. Shield + FotD, 350 points.

 

It actually works agains most armies rather well, although it might not be the prefered way to do B.A ^^

 

Any other tips from experience?

[1Drop]

Plasma cannon devs will be good I would imagine.. What about melta HG, I'm guessing they will mess them up too but having to get in closer may get assaulted and ultimately killed alot faster than plasma HG.

[liberate_tutame]

I can see why fear would be very powerful against them. And I'll echo your advice to take plasma. My tactical squad with a plasma gun, combi-plasma and Plasma cannon have done sterling work against the GK's.

 

If he takes purifiers, shooting their transport will cripple them more than the Strike Squads. So I target those, then the AC Dreads then the strike squads... Unless its an objective game of course.

[Hannibal.Lictor]

furioso dreads with dual BTs make a mess of GK. GKs wanna CC so give them something that will ruin their day. WS 6 FA 13 and you are getting an extra attack with every unsaved wound. I have dropped a 5 man paladin squad with a apoth this way. 125 poits vs 400 plus? DC dreads rock as well if you runa list with DC. They have fleet FC and an extra attack and a re still at WS 5. Out CC dreads wreck GK. SG dose alright as well so long as there are not a massive number of halberds. I have thought about giving my SG plasma pistols and seeing if I can make that work.

[1Drop]

A couple of vindicators well definitely come in useful, I know I will be taking two (I would take three if the plasma cannon devs weren't so good for eradicating GK) and just sit back and blast them to pieces. Also anything that is assaulting could really do with a storm shield, 5 cc terminators with TH/SS would do nicely also an HG with plasma and LC/SS could make a mess.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

A couple of vindicators well definitely come in useful, I know I will be taking two (I would take three if the plasma cannon devs weren't so good for eradicating GK) and just sit back and blast them to pieces. Also anything that is assaulting could really do with a storm shield, 5 cc terminators with TH/SS would do nicely also an HG with plasma and LC/SS could make a mess.

 

Don't think those will be any good, any GK unit can take it out with great ease. Vindis that is. They supply some sort of distraction though, and I guess that B.A at least have a real possibilty of getting off a shot with them.

[1Drop]

A couple of vindicators well definitely come in useful, I know I will be taking two (I would take three if the plasma cannon devs weren't so good for eradicating GK) and just sit back and blast them to pieces. Also anything that is assaulting could really do with a storm shield, 5 cc terminators with TH/SS would do nicely also an HG with plasma and LC/SS could make a mess.

 

Don't think those will be any good, any GK unit can take it out with great ease. Vindis that is. They supply some sort of distraction though, and I guess that B.A at least have a real possibilty of getting off a shot with them.

 

 

Not really, they have pretty much no long range therefore sit back and shoot... GK can take out pretty much anything if you let them, so don't let them.

[Mykra]

A couple of vindicators well definitely come in useful, I know I will be taking two (I would take three if the plasma cannon devs weren't so good for eradicating GK) and just sit back and blast them to pieces. Also anything that is assaulting could really do with a storm shield, 5 cc terminators with TH/SS would do nicely also an HG with plasma and LC/SS could make a mess.

 

Don't think those will be any good, any GK unit can take it out with great ease. Vindis that is. They supply some sort of distraction though, and I guess that B.A at least have a real possibilty of getting off a shot with them.

 

 

Not really, they have pretty much no long range therefore sit back and shoot... GK can take out pretty much anything if you let them, so don't let them.

 

Demolisher Cannons only have a 24" range, so if the Demo can hit them, the Psycannons can hit it. Frontal armor may save you from one squad, but if they can get any side shots or especially rear (interceptors most likely) you're toast.

[1Drop]

A couple of vindicators well definitely come in useful, I know I will be taking two (I would take three if the plasma cannon devs weren't so good for eradicating GK) and just sit back and blast them to pieces. Also anything that is assaulting could really do with a storm shield, 5 cc terminators with TH/SS would do nicely also an HG with plasma and LC/SS could make a mess.

 

Don't think those will be any good, any GK unit can take it out with great ease. Vindis that is. They supply some sort of distraction though, and I guess that B.A at least have a real possibilty of getting off a shot with them.

 

 

Not really, they have pretty much no long range therefore sit back and shoot... GK can take out pretty much anything if you let them, so don't let them.

 

Demolisher Cannons only have a 24" range, so if the Demo can hit them, the Psycannons can hit it. Frontal armor may save you from one squad, but if they can get any side shots or especially rear (interceptors most likely) you're toast.

 

Whoops, lol.. I didn't check what the range was for the cannon so I guess that's out. I have been outa the game for a long time and I'm currently only building my army so sorry for that rather noobish insight.

 

So what do we have with a decent amount of range on it that can cause huge damage to GK that I can use instead of vindis? More devs?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

From a DoA perspective I would use the following tactics:

 

*Vanguard vets snipe the Vindicare assassin - it's very important to take out the Vindicare as quickly as possible since he can negate invulnerable saves and snipe sergeants

*I'll still run with all melta over plasma as melta insta gibs Paladins and wounds Dreadknights on a 2+

*Drop safe behind cover - psybolt stormbolters and psycannons can trash our assault squads - overall we have better mobility and should always use this to our advantage!

*The Sanguinor is still a potent threat since the Vindicare assassin can't negate his 3++ and he has Eternal Warrior

*Probably a good idea to run a Librarian simply for the psychic hood - if Grey Knight's psychic powers go off they are uber Marines... If they don't then they are simply overcosted Marines for the most part

*Mephiston is majorly nerfed versus Nemesis force weapons and the psychic hood - leave him home up on the battle barge

*Try to avoid combat as long as possible versus Paladins with halberds or a Librarian with Quicksilver - again our mobility really helps here

*Dreadnaughts charging out of Stormravens are still an ace as Nemesis force weapons can't hurt them - Bloodfists versus Paladins and Blood Talons against most of the rest

 

G <_<

[1Drop]

From a DoA perspective I would use the following tactics:

 

*Vanguard vets snipe the Vindicare assassin - it's very important to take out the Vindicare as quickly as possible since he can negate invulnerable saves and snipe sergeants

*I'll still run with all melta over plasma as melta insta gibs Paladins and wounds Dreadknights on a 2+

*Drop safe behind cover - psybolt stormbolters and psycannons can trash our assault squads - overall we have better mobility and should always use this to our advantage!

*The Sanguinor is still a potent threat since the Vindicare assassin can't negate his 3++ and he has Eternal Warrior

*Probably a good idea to run a Librarian simply for the psychic hood - if Grey Knight's psychic powers go off they are uber Marines... If they don't then they are simply overcosted Marines for the most part

*Mephiston is majorly nerfed versus Nemesis force weapons and the psychic hood - leave him home up on the battle barge

*Try to avoid combat as long as possible versus Paladins with halberds or a Librarian with Quicksilver - again our mobility really helps here

*Dreadnaughts charging out of Stormravens are still an ace as Nemesis force weapons can't hurt them - Bloodfists versus Paladins and Blood Talons against most of the rest

 

G

 

How would a regular dread with multimelta and bloodfist fair?

[angel of justice]

tactical squad, with plasma cannon and plasma gun with a priest in some cover so you get a save against the occasional rending psycannon shot.

 

Flamestorm baals and redeemers work well since strength 6 ap 3 templates roast them well and they dont have to worrry about melta guns.

 

Storm raven lascannon, tempest missile launcher blood strike missile alpha strike against psyfileman dreadnoughts.

 

Drop Pod dread with frag cannon melta gun blood fist in his back

 

Priests Feel no pain is a huge advantage against grey knights and should be abused to its fullest.

[1Drop]

tactical squad, with plasma cannon and plasma gun with a priest in some cover so you get a save against the occasional rending psycannon shot.

 

Flamestorm baals and redeemers work well since strength 6 ap 3 templates roast them well and they dont have to worrry about melta guns.

 

Storm raven lascannon, tempest missile launcher blood strike missile alpha strike against psyfileman dreadnoughts.

 

Drop Pod dread with frag cannon melta gun blood fist in his back

 

Priests Feel no pain is a huge advantage against grey knights and should be abused to its fullest.

 

When you said 'they don't have to worry about melta' you did just mean the LRR right and not the Baal? I'm sure melta will end a Baal won't it?

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

tactical squad, with plasma cannon and plasma gun with a priest in some cover so you get a save against the occasional rending psycannon shot.

 

Flamestorm baals and redeemers work well since strength 6 ap 3 templates roast them well and they dont have to worrry about melta guns.

 

Storm raven lascannon, tempest missile launcher blood strike missile alpha strike against psyfileman dreadnoughts.

 

Drop Pod dread with frag cannon melta gun blood fist in his back

 

Priests Feel no pain is a huge advantage against grey knights and should be abused to its fullest.

 

When you said 'they don't have to worry about melta' you did just mean the LRR right and not the Baal? I'm sure melta will end a Baal won't it?

 

G.K have no meltaguns. Well, atleast none of their P.A or TDA units. Also, the M.M dread wouldn't bring anything useful against G.K.

 

On a related note, dreads will have to be suicide units against G.K. We can assume most of their squads have at least a single NDH as they cost five points. Yeah baby, str 10 hammers for 5 points.

[1Drop]

tactical squad, with plasma cannon and plasma gun with a priest in some cover so you get a save against the occasional rending psycannon shot.

 

Flamestorm baals and redeemers work well since strength 6 ap 3 templates roast them well and they dont have to worrry about melta guns.

 

Storm raven lascannon, tempest missile launcher blood strike missile alpha strike against psyfileman dreadnoughts.

 

Drop Pod dread with frag cannon melta gun blood fist in his back

 

Priests Feel no pain is a huge advantage against grey knights and should be abused to its fullest.

 

When you said 'they don't have to worry about melta' you did just mean the LRR right and not the Baal? I'm sure melta will end a Baal won't it?

 

G.K have no meltaguns. Well, atleast none of their P.A or TDA units. Also, the M.M dread wouldn't bring anything useful against G.K.

 

On a related note, dreads will have to be suicide units against G.K. We can assume most of their squads have at least a single NDH as they cost five points. Yeah baby, str 10 hammers for 5 points.

 

When I face GK I'm just gonna tailor a list for long range as much as possible I think, it seams to be their only weakness.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

tactical squad, with plasma cannon and plasma gun with a priest in some cover so you get a save against the occasional rending psycannon shot.

 

Flamestorm baals and redeemers work well since strength 6 ap 3 templates roast them well and they dont have to worrry about melta guns.

 

Storm raven lascannon, tempest missile launcher blood strike missile alpha strike against psyfileman dreadnoughts.

 

Drop Pod dread with frag cannon melta gun blood fist in his back

 

Priests Feel no pain is a huge advantage against grey knights and should be abused to its fullest.

 

When you said 'they don't have to worry about melta' you did just mean the LRR right and not the Baal? I'm sure melta will end a Baal won't it?

 

G.K have no meltaguns. Well, atleast none of their P.A or TDA units. Also, the M.M dread wouldn't bring anything useful against G.K.

 

On a related note, dreads will have to be suicide units against G.K. We can assume most of their squads have at least a single NDH as they cost five points. Yeah baby, str 10 hammers for 5 points.

 

When I face GK I'm just gonna tailor a list for long range as much as possible I think, it seams to be their only weakness.

 

There are tournaments and such, and those of us who like to keep a single list xD Wouldn't bet on out-ranging them either, as you'd the get smacked by their psyfle-men dreads and interceptors. I don't think that B.A have the firepower to outshoot them, and if so, most of us don't have the proper models (B.A tactical squad say what?). I do however believe in Flamestorm Baals. Always wanted two of those, and might as well get them now. Their true greatness lies in that the will almost always get to fire.

[1Drop]

Well everytime this convo comes up on here outshooting them as they have very little long range is always what comes up, 'sit back and shoot them to bits' is what is always said so I find it hard to believe we can't do this.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

Well everytime this convo comes up on here outshooting them as they have very little long range is always what comes up, 'sit back and shoot them to bits' is what is always said so I find it hard to believe we can't do this.

 

We have the joyous problem of having our best shooting in devastators and dakka-preds. Daka-preds are swatted like flies by psycannons, and devs by psybolt ammo.

Our real shooting chance is by taking plas-tacs and plas-devs. Both these unit are notoriously bad in 5th (or rather not worth it), and would make us such against pretty much anything else. They have a horde, you've got 4 plascannons. Great. I don't tailor lists to beat a specific army. It will bore you opponent to death, and you'll never use the list again. That is why I suggested the plasma-hg, as they do nasty things and output decent ammount of accurate, hardly dangerous-to-themselves shot. It's a unit some use anyway, and why I had one built. Codex creeping, is just creepy xD

[1Drop]

Yeah I know what you mean about tailoring a list to beat a certain enemy. I'm hoping my HG with meltas, powerclaws and storm shields might be some use against them, what do you think? I am planning on making some plasma HG too cos I want them for MC hunting so I will definitely use them against GK.

[Brother-Captain Lucius]

I absolutely hate the way everyone wants to put plasma into their lists now that Grey Knights have hit the table in force. I have been using my raven lists to great effect and i don't even have 1 Plasma weapon in my army. What everyone forgets is that they are still marines and have people been putting mass plasma into their lists to face other marine armies? No.

[angel of justice]

Well everytime this convo comes up on here outshooting them as they have very little long range is always what comes up, 'sit back and shoot them to bits' is what is always said so I find it hard to believe we can't do this.

 

We have the joyous problem of having our best shooting in devastators and dakka-preds. Daka-preds are swatted like flies by psycannons, and devs by psybolt ammo.

Our real shooting chance is by taking plas-tacs and plas-devs. Both these unit are notoriously bad in 5th (or rather not worth it), and would make us such against pretty much anything else. They have a horde, you've got 4 plascannons. Great. I don't tailor lists to beat a specific army. It will bore you opponent to death, and you'll never use the list again. That is why I suggested the plasma-hg, as they do nasty things and output decent ammount of accurate, hardly dangerous-to-themselves shot. It's a unit some use anyway, and why I had one built. Codex creeping, is just creepy xD

 

I think that tactical squads and devastator squads are strong choices that wont handy cap you no matter what army you play against , 4 smalls blast templates at strength 7 ap2 is still pretty good against hordes or MEQ, and massed bolter fire with plasma is going to do damage against hordes and MEQ it wont do anti tank but there are other things in the codex that do that much better for a time tactical s were not worth it because assualt squads could pretty much eat anything because of furious charge, feel no pain and the amount of close combat nastiness an assault squad could put out, however now that they can strike at a higher initiative and ignore armour and ignore feel no pain other option's are now more attractive because the playing field has changed.

[Zeller]

Blood Talon dreadnoughts. Done.

 

Beat them at their own game. They move defensively while firing their guns? We'll do the same with our fast tanks. Vindicators are also good. They're really not that different from traditional marines. Just don't charge them unless you've got a lot of DC or they don't have halberds. I've obliterated their dreadknights with DC and traditional AT fire.

 

My only experience is against TDA heavy lists.

[1Drop]

What about stenguard, poison rounds, heavy flamer? Or is this another idea that GK will just crush :) ?

[SamaNagol]

24 inch range is ample for Vindicators. Psycannon really are not a serious threat seeing as they need 6s to pen and BA can easily outmaneuvre GKs. You might lose a 145pt Vindicator to an Interceptor Squad, but that tight formation of PA GKs is going to get absolutely obliterated next turn and costs a darn sight more than 145 pts. It is a poor trade. And GKs don't have the manpower to do bad trades.

 

+1 for Furioso Dreads. AV13 laughs at Grey Knights without Hammerhand turned on. WS6 makes it hard for them to hit even with Hammerhand on.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

I'm starting to think I will have to expand my army into having turn 1 prescence now.

 

Currently I use 2 RAS with meltas, the mentionend Honour Guard, a Sang Guard unit and some V.V's.

 

I'll probably opt out of pure DoA and cram in some Baals and Furiosos. They can do stuff the rest of my army can't, namely beat hordes and P.A to submission without suffering losses.