combat squads and grand strategy

[henrywalker]

if i have a squad of say purifiers and i use grand strategy to make them troops and i combat squad them are both squads then scoring units? i'm pretty sure they are but i thought i'd get opinions

 

cheers

[RedemptionNL]

Already asked a few times, but yes. Grand Stategy is done before deployment, Combat Squadding is done during deployment.

[Thaelion Hexis]

How about deepstrike and combat squadding? Deepstrike in as seperate units?

[RedemptionNL]

If the Blood Angel and Space Marine FAQ are anything to go by, you can't Combat Squad units held in Reserves.

[Brother Valerius]

The wording on the FAQ is a bit iffy. It can be read as either "squads that are placed in reserve may not be broken down into combat squads while in reserve", or "squads that are placed in reserve may not be broken down into combat squads at all". I'm inclined to say it should be read as the former, as a) squads that come out of a Drop Pod explicitly may combat squad, and b: that question was related to deploying half in a pod and half from normal reserves.

[Master_Matteo]

The wording on the FAQ is a bit iffy. It can be read as either "squads that are placed in reserve may not be broken down into combat squads while in reserve", or "squads that are placed in reserve may not be broken down into combat squads at all". I'm inclined to say it should be read as the former, as a) squads that come out of a Drop Pod explicitly may combat squad, and b: that question was related to deploying half in a pod and half from normal reserves.

 

Q: Can you take a Drop Pod with a 10-man squad and

then put a combat squad in it, deploying the other combat

squad on the table, or leave it in reserve but not in the

Drop Pod? (p69)

A: No, because squads that are placed in reserve may not

break down into combat squads.

 

 

this is straight from their faq, so i see this as meaning that you may no longer combat squad a squad that comes in via drop pod. so i was wondering where it says "explicity" they may combat squad when being deployed?

 

i do understand the question in the faq is askin g about a 10man squad split into 2, with one being deployed and the other comming in. but i'm still wondering where it says a drop pod squad can combat squad when comming in.

[Brother Valerius]

this is straight from their faq, so i see this as meaning that you may no longer combat squad a squad that comes in via drop pod. so i was wondering where it says "explicity" they may combat squad when being deployed?

 

First, to be clear, it's only explicitly stated for drop pods (not all forms of coming on from reserve). I just happen to think that the explicit statement of such means we should interpret the FAQ ruling in the way I said.

 

The explicit statement is in Codex: Space Marines under the Combat Squads rule (p. 51): "The one exception to [aforementioned explanation of how combat squadding works] is a unit that arrives by Drop Pod. The player can choose to split such a unit into combat squads when it disembarks from the Drop Pod."

 

Because of that, the ruling in the FAQ doesn't mean you can't combat squad a squad that arrives via Pod. You could argue that all other squads held in reserve may not be broken into combat squads, but I think it's a bit contradictory to interpret the FAQ this way given that we know that Pod squads are held in reserve, and can combat squad. It seems clear enough to me that the intent is not to prohibit squads put in reserve from utilizing combat squads at all, but to prohibit breaking down into combat squads while still in reserve.

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

The wording on the FAQ is a bit iffy. It can be read as either "squads that are placed in reserve may not be broken down into combat squads while in reserve", or "squads that are placed in reserve may not be broken down into combat squads at all". I'm inclined to say it should be read as the former, as a) squads that come out of a Drop Pod explicitly may combat squad, and b: that question was related to deploying half in a pod and half from normal reserves.

 

Calling it a bit iffy is a massive understatement. There is literally nothing in their one line answer which lets you determine which of these interpretations is correct. As written, it is ambiguous. One would have to make assumptions to come to one conclusion or another.

[CheezeFezt]

The FAQ only means

1) you can't split a 10-man unit into 2 combat squads. Then deploy the 1st squad on the 1st turn, while leaving the 2nd squad in reserve along with its dedicated transport to be deployed later. And

2) you can't split a 10-man unit into 2 combat squads, both held in reserve, then roll for each of them separately.

 

The Marine dex p 51 "The decision to split the unit into combat squads, as well as which models go into each combat squad, must be made when the unit is deployed."

 

So the 10-man unit is held in reserve as one unit. You roll for reserve as one unit. When they deploy from reserve, they then can split them into combat squad, per dex which say you split when the unit is deployed. This doesn't run afoul of the FAQ since they are not split while in reserve.

 

So for the Grand Strategy, you can make a 10-man purifier squad a scoring unit, keep the 10-man purifier in reserve, when they deployed, split them into 2 5-man combat squad, each count as scoring unit.

 

 

 

I wonder if GW erred and FAQ against the 4th ed combat squad (decision to split made during initial deployment, so unit held in reserve can no longer split into combat squad).

[nurglez]

the reason they mention the drop pod, is because you deploy when you leave the drop pod, as opposed to deploying when you come on the board.

 

As mentioned above, combat squading happens at deployment, so you cant combat squad and deploy half the squad on the board and keep the other half in reserve.

 

You can keep a 10 man terminator squad in reserve to deep strike, then when they come on you can combat squad them and deploy them to 2 locations.

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

Cheeze and nurglez, I agree with your interpretations, but they are interpretations. If GW had any sense they would be more clear so interpretation issues like this would not arise... I mean you can't avoid interpretation confusion entirely, but reserves and combat squading would be trivially easy for them to explain in more detail.

[nurglez]

I disagree, personally. It states that you combat squad when you deploy. The quote about drop pods is regarding deploying 1 half of a combat squad and reserving the other half, which is illegal. so we fall back to the original part of the rules, you combat squad when you deploy.

[CheezeFezt]

Cheeze and nurglez, I agree with your interpretations, but they are interpretations. If GW had any sense they would be more clear so interpretation issues like this would not arise... I mean you can't avoid interpretation confusion entirely, but reserves and combat squading would be trivially easy for them to explain in more detail.

 

Well, it's really have to do with how to read the FAQ

 

Q: Can you take a Drop Pod with a 10-man squad and then put a combat squad in it, deploying the other combat squad on the table, or leave it in reserve but not in the Drop Pod? (p69)

 

A: No, because squads that are placed in reserve may not break down into combat squads.

 

The context of this question is splitting up the squad and deploying at different time. The answer is in reference to the question. So context say the answer is squads may not break down while in reserve. I don't see why the answer needs to read as a global statement, squad in reserve may never break down, especially when the dex wording is very clear -- one break down when one deploy. Sure, if one read the answer with context, one may take the answer to say squad my not break down ever.

 

The dex is not vague at all. So I don't see when the faq should override the dex?

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

The context of this question is splitting up the squad and deploying at different time. The answer is in reference to the question. So context say the answer is squads may not break down while in reserve. I don't see why the answer needs to read as a global statement,

 

Yes! Context! Which means this is your entirely reasonable OPINION, which I agree with by the way. However, the answer as written does NOT specify the duration of the restriction. We have to infer it. It is certainly possible that the FAQ answerer gave an answer which was broader in scope than the question asked, it is also possible (since it has happened in FAQs before) that the answer creates a new restriction that supercedes the codex (units placed in reserves may not combat squad at all that game).

 

I think it is far more likely that the morons at GW were imprecisely restating the codex rule but again, the crappy ass one line answer is completely silent on the duration of the combat squadding restriction.

[nurglez]

But squads that reserve and then combat squad are not broken down into combat squads until they arrive, at which point they aren't in reserve.

 

I can see where you are coming from, and I normally play devils advocate as well and see both sides, but I just disagree with your interpretation of the faq.