Possessed in the next codex

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I know there are other threads discussing future Chaos Codices, but I want to specifically discuss possessed marines. How should they be in the context of 5th edition, and considering the limitations of their kit?

 

Currently, they are an overpriced elite assault unit. They are set apart from others of their type by their 5++ and str5. Most other MeQ assault units have only str 4, but often WS 5. Lots of other MeQ CC specialists can get invulnerable saves, but it's usually on only a few models in the squad as it comes from individual wargear pieces. Possessed don't have any gear customization at all, which makes sense given that they get a random special rule. Unfortunately, that special rule is bad.

 

I have often seen it suggested that possessed be able to choose which power they get in the form of buying a rule for X points per model. This is a decent enough idea, but I think the unit has more potential than that.

 

From the fluff, we know that possessed are not gun users. I think the rules should continue to reflect that. In several of the places they appear, they serve as scout units (Word Bearer novels) and also in The First Heretic their speed is mentioned. This is only sort of mirrored in the rules, in that scouts and fleet are possible results. However, I think to really represent the unit, they should always have something faster going.

 

I would like to see Possessed perform radically different from other MeQ CC specialists. I think the best way to do this is to make them Beasts. This gives them Fleet and a 12" charge, but means they cannot ride in transports. Let them be the Chaos fast moving, non-mechanized scout unit/infiltrator. Give them a slight price discount off whatever they would be to compensate for how exposed they would be. Have them start with just 1 CC weapon and a 5++. For options, let the player be allowed to pay x amount of points per model for any combination of scouts, infiltrate, move through cover, and stealth. For weapon options, they can stay with just 1 CCW (cheap option), take a 2nd CCW (still cheap) Crushing claws (rending), Talons (re-roll to wound) or power weapons. This would also reflect the in-kit options.

 

Setup like this, they could be used a outflankers or infiltrators to harass with varying levels of offensiveness depending on if you want a squad to just tie up heavy weapon teams or one actually capable of taking down tough targets. No transport would mean you needed to screen them well and would give them a different role from normal CC troops. The option to run them cheap but with stealth could make them a screening unit (like DE mandrakes). Running squads behind your vehicles could also make for effective counter-chargers.

 

What ideas do you all have?

[AoC]

Why not make them behave in way linked to what daemons possess their bodies ? Also, they use guns, at least some of them.

[Agent Purple]

They should get a bonus depending on the mark they have.

 

Undivided

Scout and +1 strength

 

Khorne

Furious Charge and power weapons

 

Slaneesh

Rending attacks and fleet

 

Nurgle

Poisoned attacks, feel no pain, and slow & purposeful

 

Tzeentch

Doombolt shooting attack (counts as ranged weapon and not a psychic power)

[Sangneur]

Personally I would like them to become an elite version of daemons, with armour specifically. They can either be possessed by:

1. Furies and receive +1 strength, wings and a 5+ save.

2. Daemonettes, and receive fleet, rending, +2 I and a 5+ save.

3. Tzeentch, receive doombolt as a ranged attack, and a 4+ inv. save.

4. Khorne, receiving a power weapon, +1 weapon skill and attack, furious charge and a 5+ inv.

5. Nurgle, receiving a +1 toughness, poisoned attacks, and feel no pain, and a 5+ inv. save.

 

Along with these I'd like them to keep their bolt pistols for the extra attack and have the ability to deep strike.

 

Edit: these options should be priced individually, but I'd also think that an option to select one at random for a reasonable cost would be fluffy, and compensate for the possibility of incomparability.

[Kristoff]

I think a combination of these ideas would be the best route to take.

 

The motive powers should be purchasable options in one list:

• Jump Infantry
  
• Beast
  
• Scout
  
• Infiltrate
  
• Daemonic Deep Strike
  

 

The Marks/Icons should provide other USR options as well as stat buffs:

• Chaos Glory: +1 Strength & Eternal Warrior
  
• Slaanesh: +1 Initiative & Fleet
  
• Khorne: +1 Attacks & Furious Charge
  
• Nurgle: +1 Toughness & Feel No Pain
  
• Tzeentch: 4+ Invul & Inferno Bolts
  

 

Then the weapons would be upgrades on the last list:

• Rending
  
• Power Weapons
  
• Monstrous Creature
  
• Power Fist
  
• Winds of Change/Daemonic Fire (or whatever they're going to call it)
  
• If Tzeentch
  
  • Doom Bolt
    
  • Bolt of Change (or whatever they're going to call it)
    

  [*]etc

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Chaos Glory: +1 Strength & Eternal Warrior

 

Implying that they should have more than 1 wound? That would be interesting. Or did you mean something other than EW?

[Archon of Skulls]

I actually like the way they were handled in the previous codex. They had several different options for demonic abilities, and further opportunities from a Mark. They had S5 and 5++ and, surprisingly, four points cheaper. They could not take veteran skills though, which was the main focus of the 3.5 Chaos Codex, I feel. Further, if given the Mark of Tzeentch, they had the Sorcerer Ability for free.

[Heru]

The biggest issue with the current possessed, in my opinion, is that you roll for their ability after deployment. Though I would like to see them get a proper redo for the next Codex, with none of this random ability nonsense.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Definitely get rid of the randomness. It was one of the major points mentioned in the designer notes of the previous codex that people disliked random Possessed, and wanted control over it. For some reason, they decided that people using a unit again was a bad thing, and changed it back...

[The Prophet]

They have always been random, which is fun, but I guess it could be army list options instead. But more fun if it's 3 rolls on the chart like before.

 

If random, it should be rolled for before deployment so that you have a chance of taking their gifts into tactical consideration.

[Kristoff]

Chaos Glory: +1 Strength & Eternal Warrior

 

Implying that they should have more than 1 wound? That would be interesting. Or did you mean something other than EW?

 

I couldn't think of anything else, to be honest, but other than providing defense against ID weapons (which would still wound)... You're right. I really was grasping at straws.

 

They have always been random, which is fun, but I guess it could be army list options instead. But more fun if it's 3 rolls on the chart like before.

 

If random, it should be rolled for before deployment so that you have a chance of taking their gifts into tactical consideration.

 

The last codex you purchased an ability for the Possessed, and there was nothing random about them. In the 2.0 Codex, they didn't even exist. So always is a bit extreme.

[Clewz]

I think a possessed hq unit (or an option for the lord to be possessed) would be cool to have aswell

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Another option, would be to have possession be an upgrade, not a specific unit type. Something any HQ or aspiring champion could take, or that any member of a chosen squad could take (making them like the current possessed squads.) If this is the case, then possession COULD be a random roll on a chart of special rules. It would be a gamble. It would cost a medium amount of points, and possibly grant abilities that were worth more or less than you paid. Have it be a cheap but unreliable way to pick up some special rules. Of course, it should be rolled before deployment.

[Frater Uriah]

Another option, would be to have possession be an upgrade, not a specific unit type. Something any HQ or aspiring champion could take, or that any member of a chosen squad could take (making them like the current possessed squads.) If this is the case, then possession COULD be a random roll on a chart of special rules. It would be a gamble. It would cost a medium amount of points, and possibly grant abilities that were worth more or less than you paid. Have it be a cheap but unreliable way to pick up some special rules. Of course, it should be rolled before deployment.

I think a possessed hq unit (or an option for the lord to be possessed) would be cool to have aswell

I think these are good ideas. It would mean you could play something along the lines of the Exalted from AD-B's Soul Hunter and Blood Reaver (I think this is kind of what he is), a Possessed Chaos Lord.

[AoC]

Personally I would like them to become an elite version of daemons, with armour specifically. They can either be possessed by:

1. Furies and receive +1 strength, wings and a 5+ save.

2. Daemonettes, and receive fleet, rending, +2 I and a 5+ save.

3. Tzeentch, receive doombolt as a ranged attack, and a 4+ inv. save.

4. Khorne, receiving a power weapon, +1 weapon skill and attack, furious charge and a 5+ inv.

5. Nurgle, receiving a +1 toughness, poisoned attacks, and feel no pain, and a 5+ inv. save.

 

Along with these I'd like them to keep their bolt pistols for the extra attack and have the ability to deep strike.

 

Edit: these options should be priced individually, but I'd also think that an option to select one at random for a reasonable cost would be fluffy, and compensate for the possibility of incomparability.

Why just daemonette, plague bearer, horror or bloodletter ? Possessed can be possessed by other daemons, too. Every god have many of them.

 

Also, why just furies for undivided ? I feel that undivided daemons need to be explored (more types of them have to gain in-game rules).

 

Yeah, possessed as squad members, or even as lone wo...possessed sound like a good option to explore, just like possessed as warp navigators sounds cool.

[Rik Riorik]

Possessed definetly need a niche to fill. And a lot of the ideas here are quite excellent, because as they are, basically being more expensive and less powerful Berzerkers is not a very good niche.

[Sons of Horus]

The possessed IMO were never written in the rules to meet their full potential. The idea is an amazing one since you could have these astartes transformed in an unlimited number of ways by possession. I don't think they should be random I just think they should have one of the most options for customization out of all the units in the game because of their nature. I agree with the long list of abilities and bonuses/wargear that can be purchased instead of rolling dice after deployment.

[the jeske]

if possessed then not as a unit . single dude something like SW lone wolf , then he can even be random . normal dude d6 on same table they have now , X pts roll 2 , X+Y pts 3 etc . on double he takes a wound [only INV or no inv but then 2 starting W] , triples etc he dies . Random in a chaotic way , not over powered [still a meq with 1-2 W] . even rolling scout makes sense . no combination is out right bad [but power weapon rending is over kill].

[Lexington]

I was talking about this exact thing with another Chaos player the other day, and I think we hit on a pretty good idea. Possessed, at the moment, are difficult to put into a list because you just can't actually predict what sort of role they'll be able to fill. At the same time, the 3.5 'Dex's mechanic of simple upgrades is unsatisfying as well. Possessed shouldn't just be some predictable halfway house between Icon-Bearing Chaos Marine Squads and Cult Units - they're supposed to be a high risk/reward unit.

 

It'd take up more page space, but I really think it'd be cool to pick some kind of unit "role," then roll on a table for the kind of stat bonuses or special rules they get. Great stuff at the upper levels of the chart, but at the lower end of things, it'd actually be detrimental in some way. They'd probably still not be a popular choice for tournament lists (really, no good Chaos list should be - too much randomization), but they'd see a lot more table time elsewise.