1Drop Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Another thing that I am racking my brain over at the moment and could really do with some support from you guys with is Baal predator weapon load out... Assault cannon and heavy bolter sponsons or flamestorm cannon and heavy flamer sponsons (heavy flamer or no heavy flamer?) I would like to know what the benefits of each loadout is as I really like both but don't know too much about them! Ultimately I wanna have both in my army but as baals work best in pairs I can't run 2 of each otherwise I would do that and the problem would be solved... Maybe two asscan and one flamestorm? But then what about my MM attack bikes! So I can safely say that running two of one or the other is probably the best option so I need to pick one. So yeah, if anyone prefers one to the other then why do you prefer it? I basically just wanna know what each loadout is better suited for and ultimately which I will get the most out of in a mech orientated list!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gv0zD Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 TLAC and HB sponsons. They rock! Can kill loads of infantry and can crack tanks. With Flamestorm you reduce range dramatically. So in order to bring the pain you need to get as close as possible, so generally no sponsons are required. But again, TLAC is more flexible weapon and is more preferable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel of justice Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Assault cannon and heavy bolters give you 10 shots as soon as its in range 24 - 36 inch range that is effective against infantry monstrous creatures and side armour. +weight of high strength shots +rending +twin linked +outflank lets you potential get side or rear armour shots If you take the flame storm cannons you have to get with in melta range to deal damage so there is a large potential that you will loose the tank if your flame storm baal gets imbolisied its a mobility kill because unless your within flamer template range there's no threat. +flamestorm cannon kills marines and all power armour reliably +template *side flamer sponsoons are hard to get good shots with so usually not advisable *i would consider giving a flamestorm baal with a Hunter killer missile so you got something to do first turn when your moving up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Drop Posted May 9, 2011 Author Share Posted May 9, 2011 So it looks like TLAC and HB sponsons are the way to go. I might make a third with flamestorm cannon for taking out GK though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korloth Darkwolf Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 I take TLAC and HB always. If you're in range for the flamer template then something is certainly in range of you to either melta or assault. The TLAC/HB can take out most infantry and most armour so is, in my opinion, far more flexible. The Flamestorm is more specialised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt. Blood Donator Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 I take I.C and H.B sponsons, because I'm crazy like that. If you think about it, it makes perfect sense. Bolters shoot for the first turn, then whatever can goes second turn. Two template sponsons aren't going to hit the same target anyway. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain Angel Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 If you feel adventurous like me, you can magnetize, so you can do it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 i dont think i would ever take heavy flamer sponsons except with the apoc formation. heavy bolter sponsons if any. they arnt cheap so if you need to shave points look there but you get what you pay for with them. now flame storm vs tl assault cannon... well thats mostly situational. outflanking behind armour, assult cannon, wraithlord/ independant character/ unit spread out in case of templates agan assault cannon. units like devistators bunched up in cover, flamestorm. of course theres loads ive missed ther but really it depends on what you face and how you play. its only a bad option if you fail to get the most out of it becasue of the way you play or the way your opponent plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Adams Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 if I am taking 1-2 Baals, I go TLAC and HB's, if I take 3, i put a flamestorm on one. Never have found any use for the HF sponsons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Sky Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Twin linked Assault Cannon and Heavy bolter sponsons all the time. I have yet to try the flamestorm cannon, but it feels like a one trick pony weapon. Flamer sponsons are a waste, compared to the utility brought by a pair of bolters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsven Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 I have had found the TLAC HB's great at eliminating squads and MC's. I have however toyed with the idea of using the flamestorm cannon on one if I get the chance. The fact that the flame storm cannon can take out a squad of marines on twos and denying them armor saves sounds pretty sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firedrake28 Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Twin-liked assault cannon turret and heavy bolter sponsons all the way. Heavy flamer sponsons are useless and the flamstorm cannon necessitates getting too close to enemy melta weaponry for it to be worthwhile, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taranis Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 I have seen an excellent tutorial on YouTube on magnetising a Baal Predator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsven Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 I have seen an excellent tutorial on YouTube on magnetising a Baal Predator. I have magnetized mine all of my preds, its nice to be able to change my configurations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fury Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 The BBQ Baal and the Dakka Baal are very different in play-style. If you are running an Alpha-strike list (i.e. maximum destruction on turn 1) then the BBQ Baal is pretty damn good. You can scout move and be inside the enemy's deployment zone on turn one to fry a squad with the flamestorm. The Hflamers are pretty useless as you need to move max speed turn one to get within range, and then most likely more than 6" in turn 2 for another target. It's a great weapon but needs to be supported by other first turn threats, like a handful of drop pods holding dreads and DC and a stormraaven and attack bikes boosting up the flanks for impending doom on turn 2. If you are not trying to Alpha-strike, then the Dakka Baal is a great all-round killer. Very versatile and a threat to everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baba Lem Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 BBQ up front. Two Dakka Baals in the backwater, cleaning up left and right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teemoki Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 I'm new but here's how I see it... ;) TL AsC + HB is > Flamestorm option from a general point of view. They are more versatile at doing everything; light av, light infantry, to even medium and heavy av with the AsC as a last option. The amount of shots for 145 points is amazing and with 1 on each side of the board you deny a lot of hiding room with your scout + 6" move and fire everything movement. But, since I kind of get bored looking at all AsC everywhere since I even run some RB's with AsC I want 1 Flamestorm Baal. So it is purely an aesthetic not wanting to look at all the same stuff reasoning for me...if I wanted to be the most competitive all rounder which I do...but can't stand looking at so many AsC...I would probably go with the AsC + HB for all 3. Depending on the army/setup/deployment I see the Flamestorm being used 2 ways: 1) Counter assault squads and deter them from coming closer by staying behind and making them try to get through your AV13 while the rest of your army tear them apart. 2) (preferred better way) Moving up 18" during scout, popping smoke and moving 12" and burning the backline heavy ranged squads. Or positioning around transports your going to pop or have already popped. The best loadout I see with the Flamestorm is pretty much what everyone is saying: 1) (MY preferred method) Just the Flamestorm cannons. I don't want to waste points on HB's when my Baal IS going to be in melta range to the rest of the army after it burns it's targets. Also the reasoning of moving up and firing HBs turn 1 doesn't work IMO. Your turn 1 after your scout you should be burning whatever you want already. 18" scout (12" away from enemy) then 12" movement and 8" template. That's a lot of range...Plus you only get to fire 1 sponson HB after you move 12" towards your target, if that's your plan. 2) Flamestorm cannons and HB sponsons. HF templates are awesome but they have been hard for me to hit the same squad as the turret with. HBs at least don't have this problem and can aid in putting more wounds into whatever your burning. However with the reasoning above, I don't like putting sponsons on the Baal and prefer to keep it a cheap, deadly and fast pressure cooker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Twin-liked assault cannon turret and heavy bolter sponsons all the way. Heavy flamer sponsons are useless and the flamstorm cannon necessitates getting too close to enemy melta weaponry for it to be worthwhile, I think. The effectiveness of the TLAC is drastically reduced against targets in cover, HF can have a place there. The same goes for HB on the flamestorm, if you need to stand back a turn or two you'll at least have the option to shoot those bolters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firedrake28 Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Twin-liked assault cannon turret and heavy bolter sponsons all the way. Heavy flamer sponsons are useless and the flamstorm cannon necessitates getting too close to enemy melta weaponry for it to be worthwhile, I think. The effectiveness of the TLAC is drastically reduced against targets in cover, HF can have a place there. The same goes for HB on the flamestorm, if you need to stand back a turn or two you'll at least have the option to shoot those bolters. Absolutely, but you can run heavy flamers on Razorbacks for no cost and don't sacrifice a battle tank to do it. In my experience at least, I don't need a flamestorm cannon to drive enemies out of cover. A single Razorback with heavy flamer carrying assault marines with a hand flamer and flamer (I run this unit in my 1,750 point list) is more than good enough and is quite affordable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Drop Posted May 10, 2011 Author Share Posted May 10, 2011 Yeah I think I may go for one of each to start with as I really do like both flamestorm and TLAC setups, while the TLAC and HB sponsons is an all-rounder and very versatile the ability to ignore cover, armour and burn and entire squad to death is too good.. I'll have the flamestorm charging up first with the dakka Baal on one flank and attack bikes down the other. Plus, my stormraven and dakka predators will be all hitting them pretty quick, Alpha Strike sounds like my sort of plan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firedrake28 Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Yeah I think I may go for one of each to start with as I really do like both flamestorm and TLAC setups, while the TLAC and HB sponsons is an all-rounder and very versatile the ability to ignore cover, armour and burn and entire squad to death is too good.. I'll have the flamestorm charging up first with the dakka Baal on one flank and attack bikes down the other. Plus, my stormraven and dakka predators will be all hitting them pretty quick, Alpha Strike sounds like my sort of plan! Just be careful, judging by this post your list may be a bit unfocused. A flamestorm Baal, an assault cannon Baal, dakka Preds and a Stormraven are sort of all over the place. Having a lot of Predators is well and fine but if they're not overly synergistic you can rob yourself of some effectiveness. Just my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Drop Posted May 10, 2011 Author Share Posted May 10, 2011 Well what are your thoughts? The dakka preds are just a thought and I was originally gonna go with two dakka baal's! The stormraven is to get my hammer unit into play fast and the baal's and attack bikes were to charge up the flanks and take some heat off the SR! I'll also have Dante and melta + cc HG deepstriking right away to destroy the biggest threat to my SR and all my scoring will be 5 man RAS in las/plas RB's apart from my sniper scouts! I am actually probably just gonna rake devs rather than dakka preds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firedrake28 Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Well what are your thoughts? The dakka preds are just a thought and I was originally gonna go with two dakka baal's! The stormraven is to get my hammer unit into play fast and the baal's and attack bikes were to charge up the flanks and take some heat off the SR! I'll also have Dante and melta + cc HG deepstriking right away to destroy the biggest threat to my SR and all my scoring will be 5 man RAS in las/plas RB's apart from my sniper scouts! I am actually probably just gonna rake devs rather than dakka preds. Well, I don't think that dakka preds (meaning Predators with autocannons and heavy bolters) are great in a Blood Angels army because we have access to the Baal Predator which does the same job better in most cases (though it does cost more points, so there may be some cases where the dakka pred would be a better buy). I personally run three Baal Predators at 1,750 points. The Storm Raven is a personal preference thing. What is this hammer unit that you plan on transporting? Attack Bikes are excellent if you're running a mech army since they can comfortably fit behind Rhino-sized vehicles and not get shot. I don't have any experience using Dante, though I think a more focused role for your Honor Guard would be beneficial. Your scoring units sound great, I've been considering that same Razorback loadout myself - just haven't got around to converting it yet as I don't have the bits needed. :lol: Not a fan of the Scouts, but if they work for you keep 'em. Devastators can definitely work, though I feel like in a mech list Dreadnoughts are better, though since you're playing hybrid they should do pretty well. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 I have seen an excellent tutorial on YouTube on magnetising a Baal Predator. If it's the one I saw he even says that he didn't bother magnetising the weapons in the sponsons as he can't imagine any situation in which he would use the heavy flamers! Anyhoo, I tend to go with either TLAC only or TLAC and HBs. I have however had some success with the Flamestorm, when outflanking. Managed to come on in the right place near a big juicy squad of marines bunched up in cover. Quickly got the marshmallows out and enjoyed them with toasty marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Drop Posted May 10, 2011 Author Share Posted May 10, 2011 I'm playing more mech than hybrid, I only have the HG deepstriking (although if I take snipers and devs that's more marines on the board) in the stormraven I'll have 7 DC, DC dread with talons and lemartes (I also have a cc terminator unit that I will run with a chaplain and corbulo and possibly a Libby furioso but I can't fit them both in at around 2000 points so it's one or the other for the minute or both at higher points games) I have actually thought about drop podding a fragnaught and some stenguard too at some point. I haven't played in years and I'm just building this army up at the moment so as far as alot of the choices go I can change them as I haven't bought them yet (baal's, dakka preds, vindicators) I won't play until I have it all finished or near completion cos I hate playing with unfinished models but I'm not worried about learning that I don't like the play style I have models for as that's why I chose BA, to get in there and mess stuff up and I like the idea of using fast vehicles too (I've always liked vehicles in 40k but don't have that much experience using them) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.