Mordrak Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 I've been thinking about wound allocation especially with the new Paladins for the Grey Knight Codex... I made a post about it on my Grey Knights of Titan blog...the main thing I've been wondering is whether you guys think this is cheese or just good tactics For example a 10 man Paladin squad loaded out like this... Banner Psycannon W/Sword Psycannon W/Halberd Halberd Sword Falchions Apothecary Stave Hammer Incinerator Has the potential to actually take 10 wounds before losing a model...stick Draigo on with it and you have an even greater potential especially with ID weapons. I'm not a fan of 'Deathstar' units per se and would never really field a unit such as this (i'm more of a purist :lol:) but my main question is does this kind of tactica scream Gorgonzola or just good planning?? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229423-wound-allocation/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Sasha Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 I can't speak for the efficiency of the list, but I would have no problem with it being cheesy. To me, a small headcount elite army like a Paladin-rich GK one should feel like a super-kill team, a classic team movie, or a hand-picked bunch of specialists. As such, I would expect very little uniformity in a squad, so 10 unique guys fits the part very well. The fact that it takes advantage of a game mechanic is just something else I will have to deal with on the table. If you had the option to do this sort of thing with troops models, and abused it, maybe I could see your point, but like the discussion thread about 3 Psyfleman Dreads, I think it makes great movie-style games. That being said, if you are going to do this, you are duty-bound to paint them as individuals, name them, re-model them after heroic games etc! No slapping together without imagination! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229423-wound-allocation/#findComment-2752674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
imzra Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 so far i've been playing with this list (1750) 10 pallies X 2 1 hammer 2 swords 3 halberds (or sometimes i change to 2 hammers and 2 halberds) 2 halberds with psycannons 2 halberds with MC psycannon as much as it is not the best efficient way to abuse wound allocation i find it a ton more friendly than what i initially played which was 10 pallies X 2 1 banner 1 apothecary 1 hammer 1 MC hammer 1 sword 1 halberd 1 halberd with psycannon 1 MC halberd with psycannon 1 halberd with MC psycannon 1 MC halberd with MC psycannon i've always considered myself to be a friendly player and when i first tried out those wound allocation shenanigans i find it very taxing to keep track of the wounds and more importantly the faces which my friends usually make when i start to allocate the wounds. they usually believe me when i do this and that and i myself have to admit to sometimes getting it wrong due to the huge number of dices/token right beside every single model, especially when you have to move them. things do tend to get mixed up. also since my community is largely populated by friendly (non-abusive-power-gamers) i find that abusing the wound allocation to the fullest is somewhat unsporting and usually confuses both players, not to mention the new players. although in a tourney setting i dont mind if anyone takes advantage of this. for me, my cup of tea is a max of 5 types for wound allocation. i find it very manageable and less confusing and i believe it just sits on the borderline of being lame lol. although i sometimes do feel kinda lame having 5 types for WAC but well i guess thats what an 'all and only' pally list have in terms of advantage. just my 2 cents Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229423-wound-allocation/#findComment-2752683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordrak Posted May 9, 2011 Author Share Posted May 9, 2011 Commander Sasha Posted Today, 11:23 PM I can't speak for the efficiency of the list, but I would have no problem with it being cheesy. To me, a small headcount elite army like a Paladin-rich GK one should feel like a super-kill team, a classic team movie, or a hand-picked bunch of specialists. As such, I would expect very little uniformity in a squad, so 10 unique guys fits the part very well. The fact that it takes advantage of a game mechanic is just something else I will have to deal with on the table. If you had the option to do this sort of thing with troops models, and abused it, maybe I could see your point, but like the discussion thread about 3 Psyfleman Dreads, I think it makes great movie-style games. That being said, if you are going to do this, you are duty-bound to paint them as individuals, name them, re-model them after heroic games etc! No slapping together without imagination! I love that idea Sasha almost like an old WWII movie...A Bridge too far anybody lol i've always considered myself to be a friendly player and when i first tried out those wound allocation shenanigans i find it very taxing to keep track of the wounds and more importantly the faces which my friends usually make when i start to allocate the wounds. they usually believe me when i do this and that and i myself have to admit to sometimes getting it wrong due to the huge number of dices/token right beside every single model, especially when you have to move them. things do tend to get mixed up. also since my community is largely populated by friendly (non-abusive-power-gamers) i find that abusing the wound allocation to the fullest is somewhat unsporting and usually confuses both players, not to mention the new players. although in a tourney setting i dont mind if anyone takes advantage of this. for me, my cup of tea is a max of 5 types for wound allocation. i find it very manageable and less confusing and i believe it just sits on the borderline of being lame lol. although i sometimes do feel kinda lame having 5 types for WAC but well i guess thats what an 'all and only' pally list have in terms of advantage. just my 2 cents I completely agree with you Imzra as I love a friendly game with my mates around a beer on lazy Sunday afternoons, the thing is especially if you go to or have been to the tournament scene this kind of configuration is rife, just wondered if I was the only person who thought it teetered on the brink of being an impressive dairy product...Cheestrings if you will lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229423-wound-allocation/#findComment-2752697 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecapn226 Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Haven't ork biker nobz been using this very tactic for a while now? It's cheesy, but it works. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229423-wound-allocation/#findComment-2752707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Its pretty cheesy I think, which I'm sure commander sasha would find ironic considering how often I use it. It's a game mechanic, and something I lovingly refer to as "wound allocation shenanigans". However, I think its as cheesy as wiping out a whole squad of troops just because you can see an arm and a leg of 1 model in the squad. or any of the other slightly annoying things we can do with the rules. Especially considering that some forces can really abuse it (nob bikers, TWC, Paladins, WG termies etc) while others cant do it much if at all (chaos, nids, tau, necrons etc). I consider it part of the game, and so I play to it (its also annoying to use, do I lose the powerfist or do I lose the combi melta? I want them both!). My pallies are mostly equipped for wound allocation shenanigans, but considering I have 17 models at 1500 points, I need each squad to be capable of fulfilling different roles, hence the difference of equipment :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229423-wound-allocation/#findComment-2752726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Hey Nurglez Tau Crisis suits can wound allocation with the best of them But yeah in my group some really do not get the concept of this method of survivability but heh I tried to teach them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229423-wound-allocation/#findComment-2752864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prathios Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 I actually think that in an army with as low a model count as the GK any amount of wound allocation abusing is fine. We have incredibly expensive, highly customizable units. This means using lots of wound allocation to our advantage, the rules exist to help out units like ours. I think you should use them. More than likely unless you just thin halberds are the greatest thing known to man you wont be able to avoid a certain level of allocation abusing. (Note: I use the word abusing for lack of a better term. I don't actually find it abusive. I know a lot of people don't like it, but it doesn't bother me at all.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229423-wound-allocation/#findComment-2752888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfire Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 It screams expensive points sink that can only move 12" a turn (with a good run roll), or 6" with 24" shooting. The little I've seen of pally GK locally is that they lose by getting ignored and outmaneouvered. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229423-wound-allocation/#findComment-2752908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zagman Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Some may call it cheesy, but IMO it is the only thing that really makes the paladins worth their points. I run DriagoWing and have done very well with it. Wound allocation doesn't do much against ID anyway which is the biggest threat facing paladins. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229423-wound-allocation/#findComment-2752998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 It's why I don't really consider it cheesy. But I do always refer to it as wound allocation shenanigans. I've only used my Draigo wing once and it was awesome fun. Wound allocation shenanigans helps it survive. And they even use an example of it in the rule book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229423-wound-allocation/#findComment-2753428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedalus Templarius Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 What page is the example on? Is it just where they talk about putting wounds on identical models, or is it something different? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229423-wound-allocation/#findComment-2753435 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Pgs 25+ 26 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229423-wound-allocation/#findComment-2753473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibious Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 I will add that even our models without multiple wounds, gain survivability from having different equipment. Thanks to the overkill. Example your squad of 5 Strikes (Justicar died earlier) took 12 wounds and is ready to make saves. Fate did not look to kind on you and you see 3xones and 2xtwos. A squad equiped exactly the same with have to share out the 5 wounds and will be wiped. However a squad of uniquely equiped Strikes could have multiple members dying 2-3 times over leaving 1-2 other men survive the attack. Dont knock it till you try it -Gib- Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229423-wound-allocation/#findComment-2754582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drunk Guardian Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 What I wonder about the whole setup is why not apply the exact same setup to a 10 man Terminator squad? Obviously you lose 2xPsycannons but you also save 200 (275) points in the process. You lose very little from a shooty perspective (also makes Psybolt Ammo more worthwhile), you don't have to fear ID anymore, and the drop in wounds is not enough to suddenly become a vulnerable unit, while having enough points leftover to field an entire extra unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229423-wound-allocation/#findComment-2754759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 that brings up the debate between paladins and terminator squads, which has had a few posts I believe. Basically, a paladin squad can suffer 5 wounds and still remain at full effectiveness, while a regular terminator squad will be at half effect from suffering 5 wounds. It all boils down to your play style. I love the idea of paladins, and I have a logan wing list if i want to run an army of single wound termies. I wont try and convince people that paladins are competitive, but it really is down to the player :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229423-wound-allocation/#findComment-2754942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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