Howling Banshees

[tednificent]

I guess the obvious answer is to shoot them and shoot them. My Eldar friend uses psykers to give them fortune and doom. What are some tactics/units to throw at these guys? Initiative 10 and counter attack (fairy dance or something) is just so nice.

 

My initial thoughts are to send a combat squad into them to eat the initiative 10 and counterattack - then multi assault them next turn, but with all those power weps I am not sure a combat squad would survive.

 

Thanks in advance

[teemoki]

I guess the obvious answer is to shoot them and shoot them. My Eldar friend uses psykers to give them fortune and doom. What are some tactics/units to throw at these guys? Initiative 10 and counter attack (fairy dance or something) is just so nice.

 

My initial thoughts are to send a combat squad into them to eat the initiative 10 and counterattack - then multi assault them next turn, but with all those power weps I am not sure a combat squad would survive.

 

Thanks in advance

 

I would do as you advised. Shoot and more shooting. I would not want to assault really anything that has fortune AND doom AND will strike before whatever I throw at it... >____>

[Leonaides]

rough guideline- you ought to be able to manage at least 1 round of shooting at them before you have to engage them- dont :cussfoot around, hit them hard till there's only 5 or 6 left. Then, bait them with an expendable combat squad, you might get lucky n kill a couple, some of your guys might even survive! Then either close range rapid fire them to death, or if any of your guys survived and you cant shoot them, send in a good sized squad, 5 men may not be enough for this. Dont bother sending in anything other than basic troops, no vv or terms, you just play into his hands. If for some reason this still doesnt kill them, but they're down to only a couple of models, ignore them. 2 banshee's aren't much of a threat to even a combat squad.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

I usually survive by shooting them with a RAS and then charging. A single banshee has like 0.18% of a chance to actually kill a marine. They're crap.

[knife&fork]

For a small combat squad the answer is to flame them. If you can get the initiative you should be able to get 4-8 models under the template. This together with a couple of bolter shots should reduce the squad to a point where it's just about harmless.

[angel of justice]

could always throw a blood talon dread at them.

[Baba Lem]

Or any dread for that matter.

 

Does your opponent footslog them, or do they ride in a Wave Serpent?

 

A heavy flamer ought to turn them to ashes too.

 

And don't overrate their abilitiy to dish out damage, they're only Str 3 after all, despite their PWs.

[Gv0zD]

Haven't played vs eldar for a long time, but heavy bolters coupled with bolter drill of tact squad usually helped me a lot. As Leonaides said, don't charge them with VV or termies, as this is what your opponent wants.

[Leonaides]

throw any dread at them in a pinch and you just need to stop them... Unless they have haywire grenades?

[Baba Lem]

The only Eldar unit that comes with Haywires are Swooping Hawks. No other unit can purchase them. And even then, grenades only hit an operating dreadnought on a roll of 6 in close combat. The highest strength you can have in a Howling Banshee unit is the Exarch's Executioner with Strength 5. One should look out for the Farseer however when using a Dread, their Hagun Zar/Singing Spear are Str 9 versus vehicles.

[knife&fork]

And don't overrate their abilitiy to dish out damage, they're only Str 3 after all, despite their PWs.

 

They shouldn't be underestimated either. Negating armor saves (and FNP) is a biggie. S3 PW is more dangerous to marines than a heavy bolter shot or a S7 big choppa attack.

 

(That's assuming no cover, invul or FNP)

 

 

EDIT: I haven't played against Striking Scorpions since 2nd ed, what makes them dangerous? Statwise they just seem like weaker assault marines.

[Valkyrion]

Shoot them, dread them, don't let them charge you.

 

Striking Scorpions have 4 S4 attacks on the charge with a higher I than you and 3+ save.

Thats better than your assault squad in assault output, but with a lower toughness.

So assuming they each fire their pistol and then charge you that's 50 S4 attacks, ten hitting on 3's and 40 on 4's.

 

For 160 points.

[Baba Lem]

And don't overrate their abilitiy to dish out damage, they're only Str 3 after all, despite their PWs.

 

They shouldn't be underestimated either. Negating armor saves (and FNP) is a biggie. S3 PW is more dangerous to marines than a heavy bolter shot or a S7 big choppa attack.

 

(That's assuming no cover, invul or FNP)

 

 

EDIT: I haven't played against Striking Scorpions since 2nd ed, what makes them dangerous? Statwise they just seem like weaker assault marines.

 

That's right - Scorpions can be compared to your usual Assault Marine without JP. While faster to strike, they lack the toughness. The can have a hidden fist at Str 6 and WS 5 and three attacks, which adds to their MEQ appeal, whereas their usual application is cutting through hordes. You can really take them with a dread, as they too lack punch versus armour. And without Fleet, they're slower than the Banshees too.

[Redo]

I find that Banshees should not be underestimated...especially with Fortune or Doom. Yet I also find that a simple tactical squad can usually dish out enough rapid fire death to tidy them up and make assault a risky business for them. Though I usually attempt to rapid fire with one unit and then charge an assault unit. "To be sure, to be sure"

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

I thought that we had established a long time ago tha Banshees no longer pose a real threat in 5th?

 

For the awesome price of more than an assault marine, you get a 4+ model with T3/S3 and a power weapon. Even on the charge they don't average a wound on a marine each. Death Cult Assasins however will be a real threat, as soon as GK players get over their purifiers and paladins. Those can at least have raiders and charge out of it.

 

Regardless, both are fought in the same way. Pop transport, shoot at it. Banshees you can charge if there's only five or six left, D.C assasins not so much.

[knife&fork]

I thought that we had established a long time ago tha Banshees no longer pose a real threat in 5th?

 

Compared to what? Firestorm cannons, assault terminators, melta and plasma spam? The problem is getting them into combat with something, once in there they do pretty well. Against FNP MEQ (pretty common in BA lists) a single, non buffed, banshee will average better on the charge than a non TL AC salvo.

[Brother Kovash]

Anything with a higher initiative and power weapons can be a threat, especially with fortune and doom cast on them. And I'm pretty sure they have assault grenades, so even camping inside of some ruins doesn't help you.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

I thought that we had established a long time ago tha Banshees no longer pose a real threat in 5th?

 

Compared to what? Firestorm cannons, assault terminators, melta and plasma spam? The problem is getting them into combat with something, once in there they do pretty well. Against FNP MEQ (pretty common in BA lists) a single, non buffed, banshee will average better on the charge than a non TL AC salvo.

 

They'll also die horribly after they've killed 4.3 marines. I've never seen a Howling Banshee squad get the drop on a blood angels army since our new codex came out, as they are not particualy mobile (sure, wave serpents get around, but it's not like they'll go 12" and charge out of them). You always know when they're coming, and blowing the wave serpent up kills a couple of them just like that, adding insult to injury. For Blood Angels, I find banshees to be scary only because of 3rd edition resentment, when they steamrolled through everything we had. Now we have much more of it as all our units are cheaper (7 points per assault marine), more mobile and hit faaaaar harder. A RAS with F.C that get the charge on banshees wipes them, taking 4 or 5 casualties to 10 of them, assuming they are at full strenght. And that's an elite choice off the table.

[knife&fork]

I thought that we had established a long time ago tha Banshees no longer pose a real threat in 5th?

 

Compared to what? Firestorm cannons, assault terminators, melta and plasma spam? The problem is getting them into combat with something, once in there they do pretty well. Against FNP MEQ (pretty common in BA lists) a single, non buffed, banshee will average better on the charge than a non TL AC salvo.

 

They'll also die horribly after they've killed 4.3 marines. I've never seen a Howling Banshee squad get the drop on a blood angels army since our new codex came out, as they are not particualy mobile (sure, wave serpents get around, but it's not like they'll go 12" and charge out of them). You always know when they're coming, and blowing the wave serpent up kills a couple of them just like that, adding insult to injury. For Blood Angels, I find banshees to be scary only because of 3rd edition resentment, when they steamrolled through everything we had. Now we have much more of it as all our units are cheaper (7 points per assault marine), more mobile and hit faaaaar harder. A RAS with F.C that get the charge on banshees wipes them, taking 4 or 5 casualties to 10 of them, assuming they are at full strenght. And that's an elite choice off the table.

 

Regular assault marines don't hit that hard, even with furious charge they are just barely better than the non-buffed banshee, and they'll still go first. Getting FC likely required a 75 pts investment as well. There's no denying Banshees really suffer from mobility issues and expensive transportation though.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

Underestimating these ladies is one of the biggest mistakes a player can make when fighting Eldar. They'll go before you, they'll reroll to hit and reroll to wound if your opponent has any sense at all. They'll massacre any squad they get into melee with, unless (MAYBE) it's an all-TH/SS squad. The solution is to make them a priority target. Down their transport, and when he bails his fire dragons out of theirs to give the ladies a new ride, blow that one up too.

Shred them with gunfire. I know, you or I might not be too high on ammo with our fully decked out assault list, but it has to be done.. somehow. Because these chicks are ready for some action. And I hope you brought your baals.

 

Oh.. A dreadnought is good too, but then I couldn't make the... the baals joke.. :wacko:

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

I thought that we had established a long time ago tha Banshees no longer pose a real threat in 5th?

 

Compared to what? Firestorm cannons, assault terminators, melta and plasma spam? The problem is getting them into combat with something, once in there they do pretty well. Against FNP MEQ (pretty common in BA lists) a single, non buffed, banshee will average better on the charge than a non TL AC salvo.

 

They'll also die horribly after they've killed 4.3 marines. I've never seen a Howling Banshee squad get the drop on a blood angels army since our new codex came out, as they are not particualy mobile (sure, wave serpents get around, but it's not like they'll go 12" and charge out of them). You always know when they're coming, and blowing the wave serpent up kills a couple of them just like that, adding insult to injury. For Blood Angels, I find banshees to be scary only because of 3rd edition resentment, when they steamrolled through everything we had. Now we have much more of it as all our units are cheaper (7 points per assault marine), more mobile and hit faaaaar harder. A RAS with F.C that get the charge on banshees wipes them, taking 4 or 5 casualties to 10 of them, assuming they are at full strenght. And that's an elite choice off the table.

 

Regular assault marines don't hit that hard, even with furious charge they are just barely better than the non-buffed banshee, and they'll still go first. Getting FC likely required a 75 pts investment as well. There's no denying Banshees really suffer from mobility issues and expensive transportation though.

 

Since the F.C comes from a bubble, I probably had that anyway.

I guess that Assault Marines hit banshees (w. F.C) as hard as the banshees hit them, 0.5 x 0.833 x 0.5 = 0.21... vs. the bashees 0,165 chance to hit and wound. So slightly harder xD Then there is the Executioner and Power Sword/Fist as well. Getting charged by them however, is hardly something you want. Ever. But kinda hard not to dodge.

 

The rule of thumb agains banshees is pretty much "anything goes, as long as it doesn't have a jump pack and costs 30 or more points, or is a terminator". The exact opposite of pretty much any other elite unit, which are best handled by other elites. Then there is shooting them as well.

 

All in all, the Eldar really sort of need a new codex (not Necron need). Their units simply aren't cost efficient any more, and have terrible mobility in spite of fleet. I imagine that if a banshee retains it currents stats in a new book, they'll drop a point or three, for there is no reason for them to exist now that they are severly outdone by D.C.A. But they should still be handeled with some care, as they will eat shiny nipple-men =)

[knife&fork]

Since the F.C comes from a bubble, I probably had that anyway.

I guess that Assault Marines hit banshees (w. F.C) as hard as the banshees hit them, 0.5 x 0.833 x 0.5 = 0.21... vs. the bashees 0,165 chance to hit and wound. So slightly harder xD Then there is the Executioner and Power Sword/Fist as well. Getting charged by them however, is hardly something you want. Ever. But kinda hard not to dodge.

 

....

 

All in all, the Eldar really sort of need a new codex (not Necron need). Their units simply aren't cost efficient any more, and have terrible mobility in spite of fleet. I imagine that if a banshee retains it currents stats in a new book, they'll drop a point or three, for there is no reason for them to exist now that they are severly outdone by D.C.A. But they should still be handeled with some care, as they will eat shiny nipple-men =)

 

Different standards I guess, I just don't think <5% is a huge difference. :)

 

Give them a PDF! :teehee:

 

Just dropping the points wouldn't help with the big issue, mobility. Eldar just need better/less expensive transports.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

Not the greatest of differences indeed =) You are probably right about a PDF fixing eldar. They barely had a good year with their new rules, and the everything smashed most of their builds. Mechdar can still put up a fight, but require tremendous skill compared to the good old razorspam. So then, ways to handle Banshees:

 

1: Shoot them

2: Dread them

3: Assault them with crap

 

Most B.A armies have options 2&3, some have option 1, and others are fortunate enough to have all three.

[Losfer Werds]

Flamer and heavy bolter wielding tac squad I'd imagine...pretty sure this has been said before. What about DC?

[Morollan]

Flamer and heavy bolter wielding tac squad I'd imagine...pretty sure this has been said before. What about DC?

 

DC still get hit with a load of sharp things before they can do anything and FNP doesn't help. On the charge though they will probably still devour the entire Banshee squad even after taking casualties.