Grey Knight movement tactics

[veidin]

Hey all I just want some opinions on things because day after day I wrack my brain on lists/numbers/etc and I cannot settle on a list. I play 1850 mostly and prefer pure GK so no Inquisitorial troops. Also I prefer running Crowe with Purifier type lists so I center my army around that.

 

The biggest headache that has gone through my mind is how to disrupt castles or high end shooting armies like IG. I agree with many here that GK are a very midfield shooting army. However, when you have pie plated raining down and high volume of high str low AP fire coming how do you optimize an all comers list to deal with it.

 

My first thought was a teleporting Dreadknight, but then Im sacrificing a H support slot (I like to run a LR as well with a Libby for support) so that would mean only 1 Psyfleman Dread. Otherwise perhaps a Stormraven, but Im not sold on it's survivability plus its a large flying bullseye.

 

How would your standard Razorback/Purifier army list handle massed fire from higher AV vehicles is my question? It seems like a rough ride to roll up with 5 or so Razorback to get to the enemy and destroy the artillery. I just cant seem to get a good list without reducing my troops to like 15 guys which is super low for 1850. Crowe, Libby, Vindicare, Dreadnought, LR, Dreadknight all chew up points real fast so Im stumped. :(

 

Any thoughts or opinions on how others handle these type of things Id be really appreciative. :)

[lorider2]

Quick question - are all 5 razors getting smoked before you get remotely close, or is the problem once you get out and shoot you are being torn to pieces with return fire?

[number6]

You don't need anything too fancy. Sounds like you've already got everything you need to make any army fear you. Maybe you just don't have enough, though.

 

HQ

[150 pts] Crowe

 

Troop

[145 pts] 5 Purifiers, 2 psycannons, hammer

[50 pts] Razorback, psybolts

[145 pts] 5 Purifiers, 2 psycannons, hammer

[50 pts] Razorback, psybolts

[145 pts] 5 Purifiers, 2 psycannons, hammer

[50 pts] Razorback, psybolts

[145 pts] 5 Purifiers, 2 psycannons, hammer

[50 pts] Razorback, psybolts

[145 pts] 5 Purifiers, 2 psycannons, hammer

[50 pts] Razorback, psybolts

[145 pts] 5 Purifiers, 2 psycannons, hammer

[50 pts] Razorback, psybolts

 

Heavy Support

[145 pts] 5 Purgators, 2 psycannons, Justicar w/hammer

[50 pts] Razorback, psybolts

[145 pts] 5 Purgators, 2 psycannons, Justicar w/hammer

[50 pts] Razorback, psybolts

[140 pts] 5 Purgators, 2 psycannons

 

Total: 1850 pts

 

There. :) There's enough firepower to rip through any amount of vehicles or infantry or monsters. And enough assault potential to cause real headache as well. Drive to the midfield, dismount, open fire. Ouch!

[veidin]

Thanks 6 :P

 

You really think Purgators for the H support choices as opposed to Dreads? Why? Especially with them only kitted for 2 cannons instead of 4. I think I have 12 or 14 psycannons at home to spamming them wont be a problem, Im just hesitant to not field something heavier.

 

lorider,

 

Im not having issues persay. Ive run a few different lists all successful, but they havent clicked in my mind when I look at them. I dont get the feeling of "This is my list!" Nothing has felt right yet. My issues are all hypothetical which I know means nothing, but Im a planner so I analyze everything. ;) Im concerned with facing a strong mech IG force since they are quite popular. If they go first many Razors are blown up and lots of troops slogging to get to midfield and bring their guns to bare.

 

I ran this list as a silly thing to try out. Lot of high point models though, but it actually worked decently. 15 troops though is super light and again the click in my brain isnt there.

 

Crowe

Libby, shroud, sanc, rift, titan, 3 skulls

 

Vindicare

 

5 Strikes 1 hammer, 1 cannon

5 purifiers, hammer, 2 halbs, 2 cannons

5 purifiers, hammer, 2 halbs, 2 cannons

 

Psyback

 

SR melta, las, hurricane, light

 

LR, melta, psybolt, light

Psyfleman Dread

Dreadknight, teleporter, G sword, incinerator

[Lord Cuthbert]

I really think that Number 6 has the right of it. Although I agree that a Psyfle Dread is a better option than a 2 PsyC Purgation squad, the Purgs are one of the better Heavy choices.

 

Why run a LR? LRs are intended to deliver troops up close for assaults, hence the assault ramps. That is the last thing that GKs really want to do, with majority WS 4 and S 4 these guys fight and die like Tac Marines regardless of NFWs (news flash GKs are not WS 5 S 6 anymore). Yeah HH is nice to boost their Strength, but your opponent knows that and will try and squash it every time with a hood, runes, shadows, etc.... Same for the Raven, there are ways to build a combat list and it is very fragile, only then would I recommend bringing a LR or Raven.

 

Psycannons hurt.... bad! Bring as many as you can, set up in cover and mow down everything you can. LRs routinely blow up to PsyCs if you bring at least 4.

 

The assassins are okay and the Vindicare is likely the best with the ability to down any Vehicle, the biggest problem is for Dawn of War missions. Foot sloggin' the Vindicare will probably eliminate two turns of usfulness, I expect a DoW type scenario in every Tournament I play at.

 

The main fear you have is 3++, usually this means THSS Termies and that unit will wreck any unit the GKs can bring. But any old 3++ unit (Sisters, Crusaders, Vanguard Vets) can tar pit a GK unit, eliminating the PsyCs.

 

So stay at range and pound with the PsyCs. Get the transports popped and force all those armour saves, you can only pass so many.

[veidin]

Agreed Cuthbert.

 

So how bout running a Libby? Without the proper transport he's foot slogging which sucks. He brings a lot of utility so worth running foot slogging or better off not even running one? I've had awesome success with the Libby so its hard to break the habit of not fielding him.

 

Also every game the Vindicare has died quick so I was on the fence about him, but truth told Ive yet to face full mech forces where he would really shine so still not sure. The DoW scenario though I see your point and Im less sure on bringing him now.

[Daedalus Templarius]

I like running a LRR filled with a Draigostar/libby, but I don't know if I'd take it if I wasn't running a Draigostar. I wouldn't just fill it with regular terminators or anything. Although in my 2500pt list, I have a LRR filled with Draigo+paladins and a LRC filled with a Libby+paladins... eh, its fun.

 

Vindicare is great sometimes, but I get the feeling another Psyrifle Dread might have advantages depending on what you are facing. Like Tau, the vindicare's 1 shot is probably going to get disruption-podded off, where as the 4 twinlinked shots from a Psyrifle dread, one or two are bound to make it through if you manage to hit with them all.

 

I usually take a Psyrifle and Vindicare, but I might take 2 Psyrifles next time, not to mention if you keep them decently close to your pressure force, casting psychic powers against them are now -4LD.

[veidin]

So how about:

 

Crowe

 

Ven Psyfleman Dread

 

5X5 purifiers, hammer, 2 cannons, 2 halberds

5 Psybacks

 

2 Psyflemen Dreads

Dreadknight, teleporter, G Sword

 

Plenty of firepower to pop transports as well as the Dreadknight to harrass backfield or pop high AV like LR's.

[number6]

You really think Purgators for the H support choices as opposed to Dreads? Why? Especially with them only kitted for 2 cannons instead of 4. I think I have 12 or 14 psycannons at home to spamming them wont be a problem, Im just hesitant to not field something heavier.

Yes I do think the Purgators are the right choice. Although, now that I look at it, instead of the unmounted purgator squad, I think I would exchange that for a psyfleman dread. 5 pts you can throw onto something else now. :)

 

Anyway, YES to Purgators. They synergize perfectly with the rest of the list. No unit stands out as the obvious one to remove. They're all roughly equivalent. What's an opponent to prioritize? Using purgators makes your list truly just a bunch of Lego blocks that all work similarly. You get to decide when/where/how to use them to maximize your threat. You can count on all of your units doing what you want. There is no lynchpin.

 

4 psycannons on purgators is overkill, if you ask me. You just don't need that many guns in one unit. These aren't heavy weapons or single shot multi-meltas, lascannons, or missile launchers. Taking 4 psycannons makes the unit more expensive for very little real-world gain in the shooting phase yet significant hampering in the assault phase. It also makes it stand out as an obvious MUST DESTROY target for your opponent. Yet you also don't have any wounds you can lose on the unit without costing you something important.

 

As for heavier weaponry: you don't need it. The old Daemonhunters had a problem with both range AND heavy weaponry. Not only were the old DH armies limited to 24" range, but they had no mobility to help them close the gap and still allow them to shoot. Nor did they have any kind of heavy weaponry of any kind. The new GKs have no such problems. Rhinos -- or Razorbacks, in the case of many lists -- take care of closing the range gap so 24" isn't a problem. And psycannons are now truly heavy, anti-armour/anti-MC weapons with a bonus assault mode and an additional bonus as incredible anti-infantry gun, too. It is the single best gun in all of 40K, a legitimately effective Swiss army knife of a gun. You don't actually need any other gun in your arsenal. At least, not if you build your list right.

 

It isn't the Str 8 that makes psyflemen dreads great. Nor the twin-linking. It's the 48" range. But if your army works without requiring 48" range guns ... I say take more psycannons! They're better than autocannons any day of the week. And the Crowe list I put up doesn't need the 48" range. Hence the purgators.

[Gentlemanloser]

No unit stands out as the obvious one to remove. They're all roughly equivalent. What's an opponent to prioritize?

 

Well, since you ask! :)

 

The unit thats;

 

Scoring

2A base so more deadly to assault (potentially with cheaper weapon upgrades if you want to stick a few Halberds in)

Have a CC and anti Horde equalizing Psychic Power

 

:)

[Something Wycked]

No unit stands out as the obvious one to remove. They're all roughly equivalent. What's an opponent to prioritize?

 

Well, since you ask! :cuss

 

The unit thats;

 

Scoring

2A base so more deadly to assault (potentially with cheaper weapon upgrades if you want to stick a few Halberds in)

Have a CC and anti Horde equalizing Psychic Power

6 priority targets? That's a bit much XD

[embalancer]

No unit stands out as the obvious one to remove. They're all roughly equivalent. What's an opponent to prioritize?

 

Well, since you ask! :P

 

The unit thats;

 

Scoring

2A base so more deadly to assault (potentially with cheaper weapon upgrades if you want to stick a few Halberds in)

Have a CC and anti Horde equalizing Psychic Power

6 priority targets? That's a bit much XD

 

But that's what makes it so much fun as your standing there and they're not sure which unit to go for and when they pick a unit you go "you sure thats the one you want to pick?"

[Magical Pinata]

You really think Purgators for the H support choices as opposed to Dreads? Why? Especially with them only kitted for 2 cannons instead of 4. I think I have 12 or 14 psycannons at home to spamming them wont be a problem, Im just hesitant to not field something heavier.

Yes I do think the Purgators are the right choice. Although, now that I look at it, instead of the unmounted purgator squad, I think I would exchange that for a psyfleman dread. 5 pts you can throw onto something else now. :D

 

Anyway, YES to Purgators. They synergize perfectly with the rest of the list. No unit stands out as the obvious one to remove. They're all roughly equivalent. What's an opponent to prioritize? Using purgators makes your list truly just a bunch of Lego blocks that all work similarly. You get to decide when/where/how to use them to maximize your threat. You can count on all of your units doing what you want. There is no lynchpin.

 

4 psycannons on purgators is overkill, if you ask me. You just don't need that many guns in one unit. These aren't heavy weapons or single shot multi-meltas, lascannons, or missile launchers. Taking 4 psycannons makes the unit more expensive for very little real-world gain in the shooting phase yet significant hampering in the assault phase. It also makes it stand out as an obvious MUST DESTROY target for your opponent. Yet you also don't have any wounds you can lose on the unit without costing you something important.

 

As for heavier weaponry: you don't need it. The old Daemonhunters had a problem with both range AND heavy weaponry. Not only were the old DH armies limited to 24" range, but they had no mobility to help them close the gap and still allow them to shoot. Nor did they have any kind of heavy weaponry of any kind. The new GKs have no such problems. Rhinos -- or Razorbacks, in the case of many lists -- take care of closing the range gap so 24" isn't a problem. And psycannons are now truly heavy, anti-armour/anti-MC weapons with a bonus assault mode and an additional bonus as incredible anti-infantry gun, too. It is the single best gun in all of 40K, a legitimately effective Swiss army knife of a gun. You don't actually need any other gun in your arsenal. At least, not if you build your list right.

 

It isn't the Str 8 that makes psyflemen dreads great. Nor the twin-linking. It's the 48" range. But if your army works without requiring 48" range guns ... I say take more psycannons! They're better than autocannons any day of the week. And the Crowe list I put up doesn't need the 48" range. Hence the purgators.

 

 

Artillery will really screw with this army... such as bazies, defilers, or any other g weapons and tau... the list could use a more mobile unit, like interceptors or tech marine with Orbital strike relay... The tech can also bolster defenses... great for just sitting there with all the purgators.... just a thought

[Grimtooth]

Str 8 is what makes them great. We don't see an abundance of str 7 rifledreads with vanilla marines as missile launcher or lascannons are much better. Being str 8 and 48" makes the psyrifle the go to long range fire support platform for GK.

[veidin]

Thanks everyone for the opinions and advice I really appreciate it. I will more than likely drop the Land Raider Im fielding, the Libby and Vindicare for a straight up Crowe/Purifier/Dread build.

[Gentlemanloser]

6 priority targets? That's a bit much XD

 

Well then, out ofthose 6, strategy and currently flow of the battle dictates targets. ;)

 

They're all simialr, so you're free to prioritise on other factors, not whether your gun is the best choice to hit this unit or the next. ;)

 

So you take the unit thats;

 

1)Threatening you the most

2) Scores/contests an objective you want

3) is in position to take a beating

 

Or the like.

 

Ah the freedom! B)

[Cmdr Shepard]

You don't need anything too fancy. Sounds like you've already got everything you need to make any army fear you. Maybe you just don't have enough, though.

 

HQ

[150 pts] Crowe

 

Troop

[145 pts] 5 Purifiers, 2 psycannons, hammer

[50 pts] Razorback, psybolts

[145 pts] 5 Purifiers, 2 psycannons, hammer

[50 pts] Razorback, psybolts

[145 pts] 5 Purifiers, 2 psycannons, hammer

[50 pts] Razorback, psybolts

[145 pts] 5 Purifiers, 2 psycannons, hammer

[50 pts] Razorback, psybolts

[145 pts] 5 Purifiers, 2 psycannons, hammer

[50 pts] Razorback, psybolts

[145 pts] 5 Purifiers, 2 psycannons, hammer

[50 pts] Razorback, psybolts

 

Heavy Support

[145 pts] 5 Purgators, 2 psycannons, Justicar w/hammer

[50 pts] Razorback, psybolts

[145 pts] 5 Purgators, 2 psycannons, Justicar w/hammer

[50 pts] Razorback, psybolts

[140 pts] 5 Purgators, 2 psycannons

 

Total: 1850 pts

 

There. ;) There's enough firepower to rip through any amount of vehicles or infantry or monsters. And enough assault potential to cause real headache as well. Drive to the midfield, dismount, open fire. Ouch!

 

Your use of purgators is quite interesting. Most of GK players simply ignore them. I'm getting very curious to test this list against a SW opponent at my local store. He claims his long fangs are able to blast away any expensive GK unit before it can harm his lines. I never had the chance to play against him with my GK but this list have a target count that will make very difficult for Space Wolves to neutralize any threat before the 18 psycannons get in range....

[number6]

Your use of purgators is quite interesting. Most of GK players simply ignore them. I'm getting very curious to test this list against a SW opponent at my local store. He claims his long fangs are able to blast away any expensive GK unit before it can harm his lines. I never had the chance to play against him with my GK but this list have a target count that will make very difficult for Space Wolves to neutralize any threat before the 18 psycannons get in range....

That is exactly the point of the list. You saturate your opponent with targets. And with your shooting, too. :)

[Cmdr Shepard]

Your use of purgators is quite interesting. Most of GK players simply ignore them. I'm getting very curious to test this list against a SW opponent at my local store. He claims his long fangs are able to blast away any expensive GK unit before it can harm his lines. I never had the chance to play against him with my GK but this list have a target count that will make very difficult for Space Wolves to neutralize any threat before the 18 psycannons get in range....

That is exactly the point of the list. You saturate your opponent with targets. And with your shooting, too. :)

I have to play ASAP... I'm getting really curious to see how it performs.... I only needs few more razorbacks. PAGK are not a problems since I have about 60 of them but I have to acquire more razorbacks.

 

45 PAGK and 8 vehicles at 1850 pts.... Many GK opponent expect a 15-25 models list and that army of purifiers will be a shocking surprise.

 

Thanks for the inputs, Number 6

[veidin]

The only issue I see is wouldnt that list yield a large number of kill points to the enemy? Many MSU lists fall short in the tournament scene due to enemies racking up kill points.

[number6]

The only issue I see is wouldnt that list yield a large number of kill points to the enemy? Many MSU lists fall short in the tournament scene due to enemies racking up kill points.

I've played Tau for years -- including in Tournaments -- and before the most recent FAQ update all those drones off my vehicles gave up tons of KPs. My 1850 pts army had 19 KPs available for the taking! ;) But I didn't "auto-lose" KP games just because I had so many easy KPs for the taking.

 

MSU armies are designed for efficient killing. That doesn't equate to being easily killed.

 

I think people "metagame" the KP issue waaaaay too much. Just build a killy army and you'll win your games. It's just that simple.

[veidin]

The only issue I see is wouldnt that list yield a large number of kill points to the enemy? Many MSU lists fall short in the tournament scene due to enemies racking up kill points.

I've played Tau for years -- including in Tournaments -- and before the most recent FAQ update all those drones off my vehicles gave up tons of KPs. My 1850 pts army had 19 KPs available for the taking! <_< But I didn't "auto-lose" KP games just because I had so many easy KPs for the taking.

 

MSU armies are designed for efficient killing. That doesn't equate to being easily killed.

 

I think people "metagame" the KP issue waaaaay too much. Just build a killy army and you'll win your games. It's just that simple.

 

Haha understood! Thanks again 6

[Daedalus Templarius]

I kinda wish I had more rhino/razorbacks now, instead of 4 Landraiders. I might be able to change up my lists a bit better, lol.

[veidin]

A question about purgation squads. Im sure this has been posted before but figured Id ask here since were discussing stuff. Can the atral aim be used to shoot units inside transports? I don't see any limitation saying no, but am not sure about it.

 

And I hear yah Daedalus I bought 8 Razorbacks a month ago because I had a feeling they would be needed haha. I had 3 LR's from old school GK water warrior builds :)

[veidin]

A question about purgation squads. Im sure this has been posted before but figured Id ask here since were discussing stuff. Can the atral aim be used to shoot units inside transports? I don't see any limitation saying no, but am not sure about it.

 

And I hear yah Daedalus I bought 8 Razorbacks a month ago because I had a feeling they would be needed haha. I had 3 LR's from old school GK water warrior builds :)

 

ignore my question read the astral aim rule and says no haha im dumb