Brother Captain Kezef Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 You clearly aren't a competitive BA player or you would know it is such a bad unit. This kind of thing is what REALLY anoys me about today's 40k playerbase. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229596-grey-knights-best-of-the-best-of-the-best/page/2/#findComment-2756009 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 You clearly aren't a competitive BA player or you would know it is such a bad unit. This kind of thing is what REALLY anoys me about today's 40k playerbase. Second that Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229596-grey-knights-best-of-the-best-of-the-best/page/2/#findComment-2756012 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eorek Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 As a fellow BA player I must agree the greyknights are giving usa hard time... can't melée them due to I6 s5 force weapons... can't shoot them due to s5 stormbolters/psycannons... and their s8 riflmen are nasty... For a doa/mechanized assault BA force Beating a halbeard GK list is very very hard / impossible(depending on armies ofc)... My answer for the grey knights with my BA is: Blood talons... and lots of them. Keep a librarian nearby for psychic-hooding. Baals also work well. though another problem is thefact that s8 riflemen dreads/vindicare assassins can handle armour 13 (our baal/furioso dreads) If you want to you could try the BA razor spam... 6 5 man assault squads with razor backs, 3 baals, 3 preds and 2 librarians providing coversave... But feels lame remaking ones whole army... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229596-grey-knights-best-of-the-best-of-the-best/page/2/#findComment-2756108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 I got really depressed when I'd be reading a thread that was about how Grey Knights had achilles heels that could be exploited, and then a GK player would come on and explain how GKs are the best codex ever and I was retarded for playing my original army and not upgrading to the best marines. EVERYBODY KNOWS THE GREY KNIGHTS ARE THE BEST MARINES! :P IT IS HERESY TO CLAIM OTHERWISE! :) But feels lame remaking ones whole army... If army lists built from a new codex have that much of an inherent advantage against your current army list, the problem isn't the power of the new codex. It's your army list. Balanced all-comer's army lists built before the advent of the GK codex are still capable of taking on the new GKs without any changes. If your army isn't so capable, then by definition it is neither balanced nor an all-comer's army list. The basic rules of 40K have been static for two years, and no codex has introduced game-breaking mechanics that radically alter the landscape. Balanced army lists bring a strong presence to all three phases of the game: movement, shooting, assault. It is likely that the problem is that your army is too focused on just 1 or 2 of those game phases at the expense of the other phase(s). That leaves your army open to exploitation by the rock to your scissors and to any truly balanced army ... such as the GKs, which unlike most other armies are inherently decent in all three game phases and don't require focused building to accomplish that balance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229596-grey-knights-best-of-the-best-of-the-best/page/2/#findComment-2756137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt. Blood Donator Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 You clearly aren't a competitive BA player or you would know it is such a bad unit. This kind of thing is what REALLY anoys me about today's 40k playerbase. Second that Third that. Besides, the flamestorm baals are great against MEQ. Two of them will seriously screw up you opponents target priority, as they will be in their face turn 2. The need to kill 6 marines to make back their points. No one expects them to survive a whole battle, and aren't a load of suck if opponent gets turn 1, as they can smoke during the scout move. They're probably the first and only flame-tank that GW has ever done which is viable. Kudos GW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229596-grey-knights-best-of-the-best-of-the-best/page/2/#findComment-2756201 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 i was at a toruney recently and a BA player turned up with 3 baals in FA, 3 preds in HS and 3 dreads in elite.. took 2 five man squads in razorbacks and mephy at 1750.. it did very well! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229596-grey-knights-best-of-the-best-of-the-best/page/2/#findComment-2756256 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adir Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 i was at a toruney recently and a BA player turned up with 3 baals in FA, 3 preds in HS and 3 dreads in elite.. took 2 five man squads in razorbacks and mephy at 1750..it did very well! ...and thats my problem with the BA list! I see variations on this particular theme all the time. At least GK have a variety of good builds (one of which is not razor spam). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229596-grey-knights-best-of-the-best-of-the-best/page/2/#findComment-2756323 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tessius Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Hey timff8! Don't put your Blood Angels down because even though the Grey Knights have a ton of cool toys they are still very balanced when you play with them. Sure for 20 points GK's get a force weapon/stormbolter marine...but at range he dies just as easily as your cheaper marine, which really hurts after you loose a squad. Here's a good example! My 2k list is 3 stormravens, 3 squads of paladins and draigo. I played a tyranid player and just inhaled his tervagaunt thing (the one that spawns little critters) with my mindstrike missiles. My shooting shredded his guants but then I hit his unit of warriors with bone swords, lash whips and they had some big "prime" warrior in there. I couldn't pass any psycic tests on 3d6 and my initiative was 1... I had to throw 2 units of paladins and draigo against this 325+ point unit in close combat A lot of people are freaking out about the Grey Knights but just play them, the low model count, lack of meltas.....and other stuff makes them totally playable against. oh and the whole "you're clearly not a competitive blood angels player" comment is the kind of stuff that rots the internet...+++ FLAMING REMOVED BY ORDER OF THE INQUISITION +++ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229596-grey-knights-best-of-the-best-of-the-best/page/2/#findComment-2756384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 I played a tyranid player and just inhaled his tervagaunt thing (the one that spawns little critters) with my mindstrike missiles. http://i56.tinypic.com/14l6c5z.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229596-grey-knights-best-of-the-best-of-the-best/page/2/#findComment-2756499 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tessius Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 LOLOLOLOL Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229596-grey-knights-best-of-the-best-of-the-best/page/2/#findComment-2756519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabadin Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 but then I hit his unit of warriors with bone swords, lash whips and they had some big "prime" warrior in there. I couldn't pass any psycic tests on 3d6 and my initiative was 1... I had to throw 2 units of paladins and draigo against this 325+ point unit in close combat Just get back in the ravens and shoot the unit away, equipped that way they can't even glance AV12. Failing that, 1 brotherhood banner makes that unit disappear real quick ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229596-grey-knights-best-of-the-best-of-the-best/page/2/#findComment-2756577 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt. Blood Donator Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 i was at a toruney recently and a BA player turned up with 3 baals in FA, 3 preds in HS and 3 dreads in elite.. took 2 five man squads in razorbacks and mephy at 1750..it did very well! ...and thats my problem with the BA list! I see variations on this particular theme all the time. At least GK have a variety of good builds (one of which is not razor spam). Blood Angels have many viable builds, inluding but not limited to: DoA Nipplewing (perhaps not against GK) kirby's blood rodeo Razorspam from hell Mech A much more belivable hybrid option than C:SM (RAS, FNP-bubbles and fast rhino-chassis helps here) And possibly a few more. They can also MEQ-spam better than any other list, due to priests. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229596-grey-knights-best-of-the-best-of-the-best/page/2/#findComment-2756590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Why should I bother trying to assault an army that gets force weapons on everything? GK are not an assault army . It is easier to break them in hth then kill them by shoting , specialy for BAs. also if Force weapons are such a huge problem for you , then stop using mefisto. Why should I bother trying to out-maneuver an army that can just shoot me to death first? Dont play doa it was a failed army concept to begin with . other option is to live with that. only good non mecha lists in w40k 5th ed are shoty. And why oh why taking characters, when ANY Grey Knight can just instantly kill them? then take unimportant cheap ones for just support or take ones like sang , who cant be ID. Is there any reason NOT to quit now and save myself the embarassment of trying to play against Grey Knights? If you didnt learn how to play with BA since the dex came out , considering there were both IG[shotiers then BA] and SW[which can either be shotier or out assault BAs] then it is probably a good time to quit. This. It might seem a little harsh, but it's the truth. Jumpers already had horrible matchups and GK is another one; they're not competitive, simple. GK punish more builds which were already bad (or had issues at least); like Mechdar, Deamons, Chaos, Nids and Orks. It does slightly depend on the GK build though. Against other proper armies GK are balanced. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229596-grey-knights-best-of-the-best-of-the-best/page/2/#findComment-2756599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
timff8 Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 Thanks to all who responded; I am very, very pleasantly surprised with the support I'm getting here, as opposed to just GK players yelling at me for, honestly, being frustruated, and telling me to play the game and that I suck. I have my one main build that is DoA, and that has four units with at least two meltas each, and three dedicated units kitted with storm shields, so I can melta vehicles reliably and the VVets can surprise-assault vehicles and PFist them. The shields have in my experience bounced plenty of PW attacks from units that I have assaulted and not killed(admittedly not many), so I hope they can do the same against Gks and the few remaining PW hits after a successful charge. I'm working on a hybrid list with vindis and preds, and I have two furiosos so work in, so with some practice they can work well, i think. Thanks a ton to all who have posted, again. And to the few who said I was whining and should delee this thread, it's purpose is done, so you can stop worrying about me sucking up space with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229596-grey-knights-best-of-the-best-of-the-best/page/2/#findComment-2756683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tessius Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 but then I hit his unit of warriors with bone swords, lash whips and they had some big "prime" warrior in there. I couldn't pass any psycic tests on 3d6 and my initiative was 1... I had to throw 2 units of paladins and draigo against this 325+ point unit in close combat Just get back in the ravens and shoot the unit away, equipped that way they can't even glance AV12. Failing that, 1 brotherhood banner makes that unit disappear real quick ;) yea I just really wanted to get into assault, and the damn banner failed his saves cuz my opponent did so many wounds =(, next time I'm def running away from that unit and just mowing them down with my guns Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229596-grey-knights-best-of-the-best-of-the-best/page/2/#findComment-2756684 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Fellow Angel you will need to mech up and Spam Fast Vindis and VAS to deal with dreads and snipers these things hurt the GK player however suck out the flavour our army. After a few games Vindis are needed the str 10 ap 2 large blasts hurt everything reliably and the VAS (vanguard) are there to combat their dreads and vindicares we cannot really do our usual play style Priests get picked off and then a smart GK player can move about while peppering units with str5+ assault weapons so we now have to protect our men in metal boxes while we attempt to shoot them to death. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229596-grey-knights-best-of-the-best-of-the-best/page/2/#findComment-2756735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 You clearly aren't a competitive BA player or you would know it is such a bad unit. This kind of thing is what REALLY anoys me about today's 40k playerbase. Fair point however when someone's only response to this person's question is "All I have to say is this; Outflanking/Scouting Flamestorm Baal Predators" Then I feel my response is somewhat warranted. 1, The truth is it is a horrible unit and doesn't see competetive play and we are trying to help a BA player who is failing with his attempts to kill GKs not plunge him into further losses. 2, The Grey knights are better equipped than nearly all armies to deal with unit. skulls stop it from scouting, grey knights fight from the midfield where an out flanking baal that turns up on turn 3 (and yes the average is turn 3) cannot get to to use it's main gun when it comes on. 3, The baal must get close and GKs have the best anti tank weapon within 24" other than a melta. 4, Terminators do not care about baals and compact armies such as GKs (it doens't really get much more compact than them) just spread out so the damage done by the flamestorm IF it ever managed to get into to range would be minimal maximum 3 guys if propperly spaced out. Someone asks for legitmate help and instead of people taking the time to provide well thought out advice, they put forward nonsense which helps no one. So I stand by my words, feel free to chastise me all you like. Regards, Crynn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229596-grey-knights-best-of-the-best-of-the-best/page/2/#findComment-2756873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 im sorry crynn i dont know you but im going to have to disagree with everything you said... indeed everything you reprisent and whats wrong with the internet side of our hobby.. lets start with you win loss record.. no-one is that lucky, nor indeed that good unless they are clubbing baby seals.. the fact that you have a published win loss record says heaps that i wont go into. Every post ive seen from you recently drips with venom and is insulting to others.. if i were a mod i would chastise you.. as im not all i can say is bad form sir, and leave it at that. this idea that certain unit types are just bad is complete nonesense, in top tier armies you do get levels of 'optimum' units and builds but the baal is actually very useful.. to say that it is rubbish is an opinion your entitled to.. but to criticise and insult someone for having a differing opinion is socially and morally unacceptable. you argue that the baal doesnt see competative play, but ive already posted that i was at a tourney recently and a BA player ran 3.. he never left the top tables. either im lying or you have to open up to the possibility that your wrong and they can do well competatively. you then argue that the GK are the best army to counter the baal, whilst this 'may' be true (im unconvinced tbh) no-one should ever build an army solely to face GK.. you cant tailor in tournaments so we cannot advocate it for competative play, even friendly games. plus although we see alot of lists containing skulls, in practise only about half turn up to the table with them.. perhaps its a local meta thing, i dont know. but skulls dont stop outflank and if the enemy decide to run down the middle then youve essentially corralled them and are controlling play... how is this a bad thing. you have to stop thinking in black and white, i find it hard to believe you have such an impressive win record with such a negative view of 'alternative' tactics Someone asks for legitmate help and instead of people taking the time to provide well thought out advice, they put forward nonsense which helps no one. So I stand by my words, feel free to chastise me all you like. You state this yet post insults instead of constructive criticism.. ill say again, bad form sir, bad form. lets bring this back on topic shall we.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229596-grey-knights-best-of-the-best-of-the-best/page/2/#findComment-2756906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 On the topic of Win/Loss/Draw records, beyond the utter rubbish they represent (one, who actually keeps honest tallies, and two, who on the internet actually believes them?), a good player going up against good opponents should in fact have a relatively even distribution of wins and losses, and in point of fact should rack up a fair number of draws. Secondly, I stand with GC08 on this one; it is rare, particularly with Space Marines, to simply rule out a unit as useless. Everything has a place, and given the fast, aggressive in-your-face army that the Blood Angels is, it is quite a foolish player indeed who automatically rules out a unit as great as the Baal Predator. It's got an amazing statline, wrapped in a Fast vehicle, that Scouts! Are you kidding me? My Wolves would kill to have a tank like that! Does it suit your gameplay? It may not. Can everybody use it well? I rather doubt it. But in armies that the Predator synergizes with, it can be a valuable asset for very little expenditure in points (and the fact that it sits in the Fast Attack section instead of Heavy Support is just fan-freakin-tastic). Are there armies that the Baal will struggle against? Absolutely. But on the other hand there are also armies that it will excel against. And as GC08 says, one cannot expect to always face Grey Knights. And tailoring to beat a specific opponent does not a good player make, especially if one has to consider the competitive tournament environment, where more often than not balanced all-comers list optimized for every possible scenario/situation will do far better than WAAC power-gaming lists. Will a tailored BA list trounce Grey Knights? More than likely. But it will also probably stand a good chance of being crushed by every other army out there, which makes it a one-dimensional list and one that will flounder in a competitive environment! To provide "constructive" assistance, I will echo what others have already put forth in this thread: Don't worry about necessarily building a list that will absolutely wreck Grey Knights. Yes, they can get a lot of shiny toys and fancy gubbins, but they pay through the nose for them. And honestly, a Grey Knight is no harder to kill than a Space Marine, and costs more for it. They pack impressive short range, but are not as assaulty as most people think they are, and it can be far too easy to cripple a Grey Knight army (because they have far fewer units, the loss of one hurts them a lot more than, for example, a Blood Angel player losing a unit). Just build a list designed to handle the various missions in the game, and equipped to handle any opponent you might face. Concentrate on the objectives, and you'll find you have far less of a hard time dealing with Grey Knights than you think you will. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229596-grey-knights-best-of-the-best-of-the-best/page/2/#findComment-2756928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Appolgies in advance I couldn't get the quotes to work so I had to copy the post. "im sorry crynn i dont know you but im going to have to disagree with everything you said... indeed everything you reprisent and whats wrong with the internet side of our hobby.." Fair enough, I have no problem with that and thank you for being being very polite (unlike myself) on your following opinions. "lets start with you win loss record.. no-one is that lucky, nor indeed that good unless they are clubbing baby seals.. the fact that you have a published win loss record says heaps that i wont go into." Absolutely a fair call, and I do agree with what you are saying here in terms of what it says about someone. Honestly I do. Only because on this forum I am faceless have I posted my win loss record as sometimes and I do mean sometimes it adds weight to a point you may put across presuming they believe your Win Loss record which I'm sure many people don't. In regards to that statistic, what you are saying is perfectly logical and the only way I can give those numbers any merrit is by showing you the tournament results I have for this year. Indeed many games I have played in is like 'clubbing baby seals' as you put it however this isn't because I seek it out it is because unfortunately I have to club 3-5 baby seals in order to play the father seal at the end of any tournament. for 2011 my tournament results are 15/0/1 W/L/D my one draw was against the person who won that particular tournament and funnily enough a drew using a baal (no flamestorm) and if you like I can verify this in a personal message. only about half of those games are tournament games, others are played at my local GW and are all over 1000pt games as that helps to mitigate luck (smaller the game the more luck is involved). Other than that I can't really do much to validate it However I will say on forums where people know me I do not post my win loss record and I can send you other forums where my record isn't posted, but hear I can be faceless and I don't really care if people label me a :cuss. "Every post ive seen from you recently drips with venom and is insulting to others.. if i were a mod i would chastise you.. as im not all i can say is bad form sir, and leave it at that." Again I would agree, partially. Most of the time I would say that it is not the case, however lately the only forum I've posted in I have been like that in response to someone specific though I will just leave it at 'I don't suffer fools well' It can make me come across arrogant. (maybe the truth) "This idea that certain unit types are just bad is complete nonesense, in top tier armies you do get levels of 'optimum' units and builds but the baal is actually very useful.. to say that it is rubbish is an opinion your entitled to.. but to criticise and insult someone for having a differing opinion is socially and morally unacceptable. you argue that the baal doesnt see competative play, but ive already posted that i was at a tourney recently and a BA player ran 3.. he never left the top tables. either im lying or you have to open up to the possibility that your wrong and they can do well competatively." You miss read what I wrote for a baal is a fantastic unit when equipped correctly. My comment was specifically against a baal with a flame storm cannon, I doubt the person on the top table was running three of them. In regards to 'critisizing and insulting' the person, I think that is a little harsh my words were, "you must not be a competitive player" I think you are making those words to be a little harsher than they actually are. "you then argue that the GK are the best army to counter the baal, whilst this 'may' be true (im unconvinced tbh) no-one should ever build an army solely to face GK.. you cant tailor in tournaments so we cannot advocate it for competative play, even friendly games. plus although we see alot of lists containing skulls, in practise only about half turn up to the table with them.. perhaps its a local meta thing, i dont know. but skulls dont stop outflank and if the enemy decide to run down the middle then youve essentially corralled them and are controlling play... how is this a bad thing. you have to stop thinking in black and white, i find it hard to believe you have such an impressive win record with such a negative view of 'alternative' tactics" This is quite off the mark mate. I never stated skulls stop outflanking I said they stop scouting. In regards to outflanking I said that a good GK player will aim to hit the middle of the board with his army and thus by the time the baal comes on it will not be in range with its 12 inch move to flame the grey knights. You miss read my post sir. As for not tailoring the army, I said to do no such thing. Although the question was specifically relating to GKs all I said was don't take something which I would hardly call tailoring especially seeing that my belief is that a flamestorm baal is indeed an average to bad unit. So taking into the fact you miss read what I wrote I will leave the last part of your sentence alone, if you think my understanding of tactics is narrow that is your opinion to hold. Also as a GK player I always take a few skulls, I think you will see they become rather mandatory in lists. Someone asks for legitmate help and instead of people taking the time to provide well thought out advice, they put forward nonsense which helps no one. So I stand by my words, feel free to chastise me all you like. "You state this yet post insults instead of constructive criticism.. ill say again, bad form sir, bad form." The person was given bad advice, I stated otherwise, I should have listed my reasons then and there, I did not, which I take the blame for. I still believe that stating, "all i can say is falmestorm baal....." is about as usefull as an airconditioned motorcycle, agreed my response was not exactly a level above that and for that I appologise. (again I don't suffer fools, my flaw I know and you may call me the fool) "lets bring this back on topic shall we.." Yes lets indeed get this back, If you would like to contiue this please feel free to PM me I do not take offense to anything you wrote, other than some miss reading of my words everything you said had merrit. I can send you my recent tournament placings and scores if you would like, I cannot do much mroe to verify things than that. Regards and Appologies Crynn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229596-grey-knights-best-of-the-best-of-the-best/page/2/#findComment-2756942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 On the topic of Win/Loss/Draw records, beyond the utter rubbish they represent (one, who actually keeps honest tallies, and two, who on the internet actually believes them?), a good player going up against good opponents should in fact have a relatively even distribution of wins and losses, and in point of fact should rack up a fair number of draws. True, but would you agree there are many more average to bad players than their are good players? Indeed my 4 losses and 7 of my draws were against really good players however most tournament aren't full of them infact what I would classify as a good player maybe makes up 1 in 20 players. Secondly, I stand with GC08 on this one; it is rare, particularly with Space Marines, to simply rule out a unit as useless. Everything has a place, and given the fast, aggressive in-your-face army that the Blood Angels is, it is quite a foolish player indeed who automatically rules out a unit as great as the Baal Predator. It's got an amazing statline, wrapped in a Fast vehicle, that Scouts! Are you kidding me? My Wolves would kill to have a tank like that! I was speaking speciafically of a baal with flamestorms, you chose to read what I said incorrectly. Also AB mech list which is where most baals find their place are not super agressive lists in fact they generally kite more often than completely engage enemies. It is a foolish spacewolf player who comments on a unit he is obviously lacking expertise in. Does it suit your gameplay? It may not. Can everybody use it well? I rather doubt it. But in armies that the Predator synergizes with, it can be a valuable asset for very little expenditure in points (and the fact that it sits in the Fast Attack section instead of Heavy Support is just fan-freakin-tastic). 100% true again my comment is specifically for opn with a flamestorm. To provide "constructive" assistance, I will echo what others have already put forth in this thread: Don't worry about necessarily building a list that will absolutely wreck Grey Knights. Yes, they can get a lot of shiny toys and fancy gubbins, but they pay through the nose for them. And honestly, a Grey Knight is no harder to kill than a Space Marine, and costs more for it. They pack impressive short range, but are not as assaulty as most people think they are, and it can be far too easy to cripple a Grey Knight army (because they have far fewer units, the loss of one hurts them a lot more than, for example, a Blood Angel player losing a unit). Just build a list designed to handle the various missions in the game, and equipped to handle any opponent you might face. Concentrate on the objectives, and you'll find you have far less of a hard time dealing with Grey Knights than you think you will. 100% agree Regards, Crynn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229596-grey-knights-best-of-the-best-of-the-best/page/2/#findComment-2756953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leksington Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Jumpers already had horrible matchups and GK is another one; they're not competitive, simple. They are not competative? At all? I never knew I was playing at such a disadvantage. I'd love it if you could write to everyone I've every beaten and let them know I did it with 1 arm tied behind my back. :rolleyes: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229596-grey-knights-best-of-the-best-of-the-best/page/2/#findComment-2756964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Jumpers already had horrible matchups and GK is another one; they're not competitive, simple. They are not competative? At all? I never knew I was playing at such a disadvantage. I'd love it if you could write to everyone I've every beaten and let them know I did it with 1 arm tied behind my back. :rolleyes: He is not saying they are horrible just that they have horrible matchups of which grey knights is one. This is true, very true. They can be very good however their are lists that they will just fall apart to that are not uncommon in tournament play. I would personally never take a DOA list in a highly competitive tournament because of this reason. DOA is a lot of fun however. Regards, Crynn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229596-grey-knights-best-of-the-best-of-the-best/page/2/#findComment-2756973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I love the arrogance, it does tickle me. It's one thing to address a person's comment by setting down clear, concise arguments. However people love to make sweeping, insulting, statements based on THEIR biased, personal viewpoints. A classic example is Crynn's "you are obviously not a competitive player". I give him full marks for managing to insult EVERY BA player who enjoys using Baals in one sentence. This is the problem with the internet. For every person willing to give clear, friendly advice you get another who wishes to simply hold court, stroke is epeen and become (in their eyes at least) the expert on all things. The trick is to treat the trolls with the contempt they deserve and move on. As for the op, there are a few things I don't like about the BA's when I'm playing GK's and why, should help you. FNP bubbles: These are nasty, giving you two saves and unless my Psycannons roll 6's you are most likely to survive my fire as you close in. Talon dreads: Now I have a psycannon spam list for a reason, buggers like these being on top of the list. However with a bit of clever thinking and careful moves you can get a talon dread into CC and when that happens I just write off whatever it's charged. Stormravens are your friend here, if the other guy has been helpful then an ouflanking 'raven can deploy the talons straight into combat. Vindicators: Keep these bad boys hidden untill the paladin deathstar comes close then have a little word in their shell-like. One shot and you can wipe out the single most expensive unit in a deathstar-GK list. The thing with BA's is not to blindly charge, pick your fights and engage on your terms. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229596-grey-knights-best-of-the-best-of-the-best/page/2/#findComment-2757141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Jumpers already had horrible matchups and GK is another one; they're not competitive, simple. They are not competative? At all? I never knew I was playing at such a disadvantage. I'd love it if you could write to everyone I've every beaten and let them know I did it with 1 arm tied behind my back. :) Hush, you'll ruin his delusional paradise Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229596-grey-knights-best-of-the-best-of-the-best/page/2/#findComment-2757143 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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