Blood Talon Dreadnought

[Joasht]

My Blood Talon bits came in the mail and I have a spare Dread lying around, but I'm not entirely sure whether its best to make him a Furioso, or a Death Company Dread. I have not read their codex entries in a while (I generally don't play Dreadnoughts :X), but I recall the DC Dread is marginally more killy and less susceptible to supression, but the Furioso has that magical AV13.

 

And yes, this is assuming I do play normal Death Company :P

 

Thanks!

[JamesI]

assuming you are already using DC, go with the DC dread.

 

The ignores shaken/stunned is great and he has more attacks and built in FC.

[Morollan]

Only problem I've found with Blood Talons is that one wepon destroyed really gimps the Dread completely.

[Morticon]

Whats your delivery system?

 

If its a pod or on foot, then go Furioso.

 

If its storm rave, then go DC.

[Gv0zD]

That's a good question. I'm trying to include dread to my army, and wonder how... I'd say DC is a monster, although Furioso has better armor, it takes Elite slot and lacks some tasty rules. However, I'm not going to take Stormraven in near future, so I was thinking of Dropodding it. Sure, with Rge USR it can be kited, but it's not necessary you drop it in front of the enemy - it's a good way to place it where you want (behind objects blocking LoS, or behind your advancing transports).

 

Ayway, I'm wanna try it. StormRaven is too expensive to take it in my mech lists, while DC dread is very desired :woot:

[Korloth Darkwolf]

I always run my DC dread with talons and heavy flamer. I use a furioso with frag cannon and magna grapple and melta gun on blood fist.

 

The furioso I drop pod in and it's aimed at tank or heavy troop first turn to slow the enemy down and limit the anti av aimed at the rest of my list. As long as I can make back the cost of the furioso its a result for me.

 

The DC dread gets dropped from a stormraven along with DC marines so its aimed purely at troop killing, though it does have the melta gun if needed.

 

I use the furioso as the tank hunter due to the better AV and control over where it goes.

The DC dread is just left to chase and kill whatever it can.

 

So for me it's always talons for the DC dread.

[Hannibal.Lictor]

Furioso you have 13 FA and WS 6. DC Dread 12 FA WS 5 and an extra attack and FC oh and fleet (fleet and dual BTs is win) I run one of each, Blobbie armies and the DC is fun. Kill consolidate kill conslidate....Pretty nuts. Drop someones 10 man Grey Hunters in one Assault Round. Good times., or better yet those Termies.

[1Drop]

I always run my DC dread with talons and heavy flamer. I use a furioso with frag cannon and magna grapple and melta gun on blood fist.

 

The furioso I drop pod in and it's aimed at tank or heavy troop first turn to slow the enemy down and limit the anti av aimed at the rest of my list. As long as I can make back the cost of the furioso its a result for me.

 

The DC dread gets dropped from a stormraven along with DC marines so its aimed purely at troop killing, though it does have the melta gun if needed.

 

I use the furioso as the tank hunter due to the better AV and control over where it goes.

The DC dread is just left to chase and kill whatever it can.

 

So for me it's always talons for the DC dread.

 

That's exactly how I go although I modeled my DC one with the magna-grapple just for aesthetics really, I knew it wasn't gonna be popping armour but it looks good and if I have points to throw away then maybe I'll use it in conjunction with the melta. But, the DC Dread is primarily for mashing squishies! I don't have my furioso until next week but that's gonna be with fragcannon (I just wrote fagcannon by accident, hahaha, sorry) magna-grapple and fist for taking an armour and heavy troops. I think il give the furioso a heavy flamer for toasting squishies and my DC D has heavy flamer and melta.

[dadieau]

For me it comes down to the organization of the army. We have so many cool things in our elite slots that I am constantly saying to myself oh shoot I don't have any elite slots left, I can't use that. Either use up an elite slot or throw in a death company, nothing is free.

[Descendant of Dante]

I use a DC Dread w/ Talons and Magna-grapple. The Meltagun and Magna have the Strength to pop a high AV vehicle that gets in my way. 5 strength 7 Talon attacks on the charge get just about everything else. Flamer seems like a waste of points to me unless your playing against large horde armies on a regular basis. Fleet and Furious Charge are what sets them apart from the Furioso.

I pod him in first turn either close enough to pop a tank or just pop smoke for survivability.

[Brother Nathan]

Q, can he pop smoke and run?

[Descendant of Dante]

Pop smoke in movement phase ;)

 

Run in shooting phase :o

 

Smoke is left behind :)

 

= No :)

[Joasht]

Great to see a discussion brewing, thanks for the replies all.

@Mort: To be honest I was thinking more in the lines of a Drop Pod, I don't own a Stormraven and frankly that model makes me want to cry just looking at it.

[SamaNagol]

The Furioso is very very difficult to kill in combat even with Power Fists and Thunder Hammers.

 

The Death Company dread will kill more and is much better on the charge (Which with Fleet it should be able to get), but is only AV 12 so is a lot less survivable

[Whitefireinferno]

People always mention the AV 12 on the DC dread heh I do not like looking at it as a disadvantage I like to think of it as being a bonus since it is immune to the Lance rule :rolleyes: But on the Subject I prefer the DC dread over the Furi for sheer killyness but both do have their merits.

[SamaNagol]

Then there's the 'Death Company Tax' you have to pay to unlock the DC Dread as well

[Morollan]

The Furioso is very very difficult to kill in combat

 

Until you meet a Monstrous Creature and your Dread turns into an expensive pile of spare machine parts with a light smearing of amniotic goo.

[appiah4]

The Furioso is very very difficult to kill in combat

 

Until you meet a Monstrous Creature and your Dread turns into an expensive pile of spare machine parts with a light smearing of amniotic goo.

 

WTH is your Furioso doing locked in combat with a MC?

 

Also, a Furioso with Fists charging a MC has a very good chance to kill it. 1 38 Melta 2 S4 SB shots at WS4 before charging at I with 4A that ignore armor at S10 and WS6. Even better if you get Red Thirst.

 

You will be forcing a terrible number of wounds/saves on it.

 

I pity that MC.

 

Come to think of it, why NOT charge a furioso at an MC?

 

Blood Fist Furioso in a pod FTW :)

[Morollan]

The Furioso is very very difficult to kill in combat

 

Until you meet a Monstrous Creature and your Dread turns into an expensive pile of spare machine parts with a light smearing of amniotic goo.

 

WTH is your Furioso doing locked in combat with a MC?

 

Also, a Furioso with Fists charging a MC has a very good chance to kill it. 1 38 Melta 2 S4 SB shots at WS4 before charging at I with 4A that ignore armor at S10 and WS6. Even better if you get Red Thirst.

 

You will be forcing a terrible number of wounds/saves on it.

 

I pity that MC.

 

Come to think of it, why NOT charge a furioso at an MC?

 

Blood Fist Furioso in a pod FTW ;)

 

Firstly, I don't generally choose to assault an MC but a decent opponent can tie you up in combat long enough to get his MC's in there. As I tend to play a lot against Tyranids and Daemons, there's quite a few MC's about!

 

The main point however is that in order to kill a MC you need to remove its wounds one by one. That can take a while. It, on the other hand, only needs (potentially) to hit you once.

[appiah4]

Firstly, I don't generally choose to assault an MC but a decent opponent can tie you up in combat long enough to get his MC's in there. As I tend to play a lot against Tyranids and Daemons, there's quite a few MC's about!

 

The main point however is that in order to kill a MC you need to remove its wounds one by one. That can take a while. It, on the other hand, only needs (potentially) to hit you once.

 

Well, I disagree. Even an MC with S8 will only get a chance to outright KILL your AV13 Furioso only 1/6*1/3= 1/18 of the time, so it's roughly 6% chance of killing your dreadnought per turn. Combine that with accumulating weapon destroyed results etc, it will statistically, LIKELY kill your dreadnought in 5+ turns.

 

Your Furioso hitting at S10 with 4 attacks at WS3 a round will likely inflict AT LEAST 2 wounds each turn. Even if you did not shoot before charging or get the charging bonus attacks, you will kill that MC before it kills you.

 

AV13 and Blood Fists are GOOD. I'd almost always prefer them over AV12 and Blood Talons + FC. You can reliably kill EVERYTHING with them.

[Morollan]

Firstly, I don't generally choose to assault an MC but a decent opponent can tie you up in combat long enough to get his MC's in there. As I tend to play a lot against Tyranids and Daemons, there's quite a few MC's about!

 

The main point however is that in order to kill a MC you need to remove its wounds one by one. That can take a while. It, on the other hand, only needs (potentially) to hit you once.

 

Well, I disagree. Even an MC with S8 will only get a chance to outright KILL your AV13 Furioso only 1/6*1/3= 1/18 of the time, so it's roughly 6% chance of killing your dreadnought per turn. Combine that with accumulating weapon destroyed results etc, it will statistically, LIKELY kill your dreadnought in 5+ turns.

 

Your Furioso hitting at S10 with 4 attacks at WS3 a round will likely inflict AT LEAST 2 wounds each turn. Even if you did not shoot before charging or get the charging bonus attacks, you will kill that MC before it kills you.

 

AV13 and Blood Fists are GOOD. I'd almost always prefer them over AV12 and Blood Talons + FC. You can reliably kill EVERYTHING with them.

 

I think your maths is a bit off. At the suggested S8 vs AV 13 you have a 26/36 (72%) of penetrating, and one third of those will destroy your dread. That's just under 25% chance per hit of destroying the dread and most MCs have multiple attacks. That doesn't take into account glances (another 4/36 per hit) or the accumulation of Weapon Destroyed and Immobilised results.

[appiah4]

I think your maths is a bit off. At the suggested S8 vs AV 13 you have a 26/36 (72%) of penetrating, and one third of those will destroy your dread. That's just under 25% chance per hit of destroying the dread and most MCs have multiple attacks. That doesn't take into account glances (another 4/36 per hit) or the accumulation of Weapon Destroyed and Immobilised results.

 

How come? To penetrate he has to roll S8+D6 > AV, no?

 

EDIT: Ahh, MC roll 2D6 to penetrate, sorry.

 

Redoing the math:

 

Chance of penetrating per hit at S8 is 72%, wrecking is 1/3 that so rougly 24% per hit. You are correct. But please do consider that he's not likely to hit a WS6 dreadnought very reliably. He should land about 2 hits a turn max, that's about 50% chance of killing it off.

 

I would still shoot and charge the MC I think. Shooting would likely take 1 wound off, and the charge with 4A at I4 S10 and WS6 will likely kill it off.

 

If you can't kill it, you'll lose the dread about half the time, but the MC will not have many wounds left. If it can't kill you back, you'll kill it next turn. Still good use of 150pts IMO.

[Brother Nathan]

that depends on the mc. a fex will easily rip a dread appart if it survives long enoughto hit it. and most mcs will hit on a 4+, never mind rerolls to hit etc... really id want it down to 2, maby 3 wounds mostbefore id want to send a dread at it.

though surely a blood talon dread would do just as well on the charge due to lightening claws and the extra attacks by succesful wounds? of course the tougher the mc the less reliable the harder that will be but you can always get furious charge...

[1Drop]

I use a DC Dread w/ Talons and Magna-grapple. The Meltagun and Magna have the Strength to pop a high AV vehicle that gets in my way. 5 strength 7 Talon attacks on the charge get just about everything else. Flamer seems like a waste of points to me unless your playing against large horde armies on a regular basis. Fleet and Furious Charge are what sets them apart from the Furioso.

I pod him in first turn either close enough to pop a tank or just pop smoke for survivability.

 

Yeah I need ze flamers, my brother has a MC heavy nid splinter fleet and other than him being my main competition the meta of my area is actually very varied and there's alot of everything! I've found that making extra flamer guys just to go into units instead of my usual melta ones is gonna be a very wise decision (I hear you say 'why not magnetise' for fluff reasons, I have melta specialsts and flamer specialists etc, every member of my army is a character in their own right so not magnetising for most stuff)

[Joasht]

Speaking of flamers....do you guys actually upgrade to one? I was thinking, if given a Drop Pod, I might be able to (almost suicidally) drop at point-blank range and get some shooting out of it, but its pretty dangerous.