Psilencer

[JasoX]

So how about psilencer and gatling psilencer? would you take them against non-daemons? sure they got heavy 6/12 compared to psycannons heavy 4/1. But no rending and only Str 4.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

In all honesty you are better off with the Psycannon.

 

The psilencer is one of those weapons GW throws in from time to time that are just for fluff purposes and have no real use in a list.

[501st]

definatly go for the psycannon, the psilencer means you have to stand still and when you got an army as compact as Knights you got to keep moving and Psycannons can fire as assault weapons as well

[RedemptionNL]

Even against Daemons the Psycannon is better than the Psilencer in almost every way. Only in stuff like T3 single-wound models without an armour save does the Psilencer do slightly more damage.

 

The Gatling Psilencer is okish, but the army is already brimming with anti-infantry firepower in almost every squad, so you have to wonder if it's worth its hefty pricetag.

[Chengar Qordath]

Even against Daemons the Psycannon is better than the Psilencer in almost every way. Only in stuff like T3 single-wound models without an armour save does the Psilencer do slightly more damage.

 

The Gatling Psilencer is okish, but the army is already brimming with anti-infantry firepower in almost every squad, so you have to wonder if it's worth its hefty pricetag.

Of course, most Daemons don't have armor saves.

 

The Psilencer is yet another demonstration of why bits of wargear that are only useful vs. one particular army doesn't work. There's not much reason to ever take one in a list that's not being tailored to fight Chaos Daemons, which makes them fairly useless for any all-comers list. Incinerators are better at killing infantry, and Psycannons can do just about as well while also being far more flexible.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

I'd say the gatling one is better for the GK than the heavy psycannon, mostly due to the latter being sort of... fail.

[number6]

Two problems with the psilencer.

 

1. It's a Heavy weapon. You can't move and shoot with it in an army built upon the premise of mobile firepower. Psycannons have an Assault mode, psilencers are Heavy only. This is reason enough to dump it.

 

2. It's only an OK anti-infantry weapon in an army bristling with stormbolters. Oh, and psycannons do a number on infantry as well. Fail #2 for the psilencer.

 

As for the gatling psilencer:

 

1. A heayv psycannon is likely to get as many or more wounds on MEQs as it is. Plus it can put the hurt on MCs and vehicles. The gatling psilencer can't do either.

 

2. A heavy incinerator will get more kills than a psilencer because of higher strength, cover denial, and anything-but-MEQ AP.

 

Either psilencer is pretty well worthless. Which is sad. It would be nice to have to actually make decisions and choices. But there is none. Take psycannons. Always. Every time. Skip the psilencer every time. Always,

[breng77]

2. It's only an OK anti-infantry weapon in an army bristling with stormbolters. Oh, and psycannons do a number on infantry as well. Fail #2 for the psilencer.

 

This

statistically Psilencers are worse than Psycannons in almost every way

Against T4 Psilencers average 2 wounds in 1 round of shooting (0 if they move on non-relentless models)

Against T4 Psycannons average 2.2 wounds in 1 round of shooting (1.11 if the unit has moved.)

[Zagman]

Simply put, No. The Psycannon is superior in every regard.

[The Rose Princes]

the only time i've seen psilencer work better is hold an objective while being rushed by hormagaunts.... so a 1 in 200 situation the psilencer wins, so just stick with the psycannon and lament your poor choice once in 200 times.

 

i think you'll live.

[spu00sed]

If I could take two on a dread knight then I would take them, and the dread knight.

[Zhukov]

No, not worth it as its not a Psycannon; sad but true. I can see someone arguing for an incenerator maybe; but a psilencer: Nah. Usually there are exceptions to everything...but maybe not even in this case lol...

 

Psycannon gives you the needed AT and is better against most other things too; the 10 points you save doesn't change anything. (always view upgrades in respect to the total squad cost and other options you forego)

[embalancer]

realistically what would make the psilencer be a workable weapon?

[RedemptionNL]

realistically what would make the psilencer be a workable weapon?

 

I suppose it could have been given a longer range or been made a Blast weapon to make it distinct from the other weapon options.

 

Hmm, yeah, that would have probably been my ideal loadout options; switch the psilencer and psycannon models, make the psilencer a Heavy or Assault Blast weapon, and for the Dreadknight a Heavy Psilencer that shoots a large blast, with a Heavy/Gatling Psycannon that shoots longer range, higher strength or better AP psycannon shots or something. Alas, it was not ment to be. :rolleyes:

[breng77]

the only time i've seen psilencer work better is hold an objective while being rushed by hormagaunts.... so a 1 in 200 situation the psilencer wins, so just stick with the psycannon and lament your poor choice once in 200 times.

 

Even in that case on average you are killing ~.44 more guants per Psilencer, hardly a large difference.

 

realistically what would make the psilencer be a workable weapon?

 

1.) Allow it to make use of Psybolts, this would at least make it some what worth while on termies.

2.) make it an assault weapon.

3.) Make it cheaper than a Psycannon, in all cases.

[RedemptionNL]

Even in that case on average you are killing ~.44 more guants per Psilencer, hardly a large difference.

 

Actually, unless the target is in cover, they both kill an average of 2.222 gaunts. ;)

[Brother Knight]

I'd go as far as saying that Psycannons are the best gun in the game, why would you want to pay the same points for 2 more shots on termies or 2 more shots when stood still with PAGK that aren't anywhere near as good as strength is lower, AP none existant and don't rend?

Questions like this are sometimes superflous...

[Gibious]

realistically what would make the psilencer be a workable weapon?

 

Rending and Ignor Invulnerables insteand of 2+ vs deamons.

 

----------------

 

-Gib-

[Darkmagi]

I hate to burst your bubble but the psilencer always wounds daemons on a 4+ so yet another negative for it.....

[number6]

realistically what would make the psilencer be a workable weapon?

That's a tough one. What kind of firepower do GKs really need if we're going to accept that they get stormbolters and the new psycannons already? There's very little there lacking. And what is missing is easily supplied either by vehicles or non-GK specialists, or both. Thus was the DH army designed of old, thus is the new GK army designed today. Consistency. ;)

 

What is cool about the psilencer is that it is fluffed as a purely psychic weapon, "shots" being nothing other than focused bursts of raw psychic might. Thus, the fact that it is limited to a generally ineffective anti-infantry role (at least in comparison with stormbolters and psycannons) saddens me, and strikes me as a result of a lack of imagination on the part of GW.

 

While the GKs have spectacularly effective mid-range firepower, what GKs themselves don't have access to is long range, heavy (i.e., anti-armour) firepower. I think it would have been neat if the psilencer had multiple firing modes, reflecting the ability of the wielder to focus his psychic powers through the weapon in different ways (and also mirroring the unique firing modes of the psycannon; why not make that a theme for the GKs, eh?). And why couldn't at least one of those firing modes be a reasonable long-range weapon? Including a long-range anti-armour weapon? Would it be "breaking" the GKs to provide such a thing? I don't think so.

 

For example, if the weapon had the following profiles -- pulled from off the top of my head -- I think you could at least make a case for including at least some psilencers in the army.

 

Range 24", Assault 6, S5, AP -

Range 36", Heavy 1, S8, AP 1

 

Price this accordingly, and I don't think it's a clear winner over the current psycannon. For both anti-infantry and anti-armour purposes, the two weapons have their advantages and disadvantages. Rather, it gives you choices in how you wish to equip and employ your GKs. For example, now there's a reason to consider using psilencers on Purgators and not just psycannons. Nor do I think a purgation squad equipped with these neo-psilencers comes out clearly ahead of psyflemen dreadnoughts. Psyflemen are mobile and have longer range and should (presumably) also cost fewer points, so while it might seem like these neo-psilencers make dreads useless, it only means you have another option to consider employing when you want long-range firepower in your army, a choice that has an impact on your entire army list design and its tactics.

 

Huzzah for choices!

 

That's really the problem with the current psilencer. It just isn't a viable choice for really any purpose, including the one it was presumably designed for. :D

 

FWIW, there are a gazillion other profiles that could be added/exchanged for this concept of a purely psychic gun. Some other examples, just off the top of my head:

 

Range 6", Assault 1, S6, AP 1, Lance

Range 24", Heavy 1, S3, AP 2, Large Blast (You're attacking minds in an area of effect, say)

Range 36", Heavy 2, S4, AP -, Blast, twin-linked (You're setting off explosions or creating a temporary vacuum in an area near enemies, say)

 

And so on and so forth....

[Hackbar]

^ This

 

Ever since the leaked codex first hinted that the psilencer was a kind of beam weapon (the purgation squad's fluff mentioned them firing beams, and that doesn't fit the psycannon or incinerator) I had hoped that GK might finally have been given some sort of effective anti-tank weapon. I assumed this would be a short or medium ranged melta or, more likely, lance weapon that would round out the GK weapon choices and make weapon selection interesting.

What we got instead is a joke.

 

The psilencer is a weapon that only shines compared to the other options if the dice (both yours and your opponent's) absolutely love you. If you can be sure you will hit and wound with every shot, and your opponent will fail every save, then the psilencer might possibly be worth it, but even with loaded dice the psilencer can be negated simply by staying outside the 24" bubble or sending something AV11 or higher at it.

[Gentlemanloser]

As Number6 said in both his posts really.

 

Give it Longer Range, And if we can't get Melta, then make the heavy version a Lance...

 

Although I disagree slightly with;

 

1. A heayv psycannon is likely to get as many or more wounds on MEQs as it is. Plus it can put the hurt on MCs and vehicles. The gatling psilencer can't do either.

 

The Gatling Psilencer can put the hurt on Daemonic MCs, like DPNs.

 

Of course, they'll still get a save, with it being the spectacular AP-, but at least you ignore the Daemonic Toughness. :devil: