Fruioso's

[Redfinger]

I am still in the midst of trying to figure my list for my 1750 tourney coming up, I have some odd FOC restrictions, basically I am limited to 2 options per slot, and only 3 of the same troop type, I can have 6 troop selections, but cant spam ASM's for example. Anyway I had put a couple of lists up a few weeks back but never got any feed back, so I thought I would bring the discussion here to talk about the effectiveness of Furioso's in a list.

 

For those who are interested, here in the link to the lists I posted;

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...5&hl=ashton

 

Anyway...I have been doing a lot of research and I have noticed that people tend to run no furioso's or to spam them and turn their list into a dread drop army...But where is the middle ground? What are some effective ways to run 1 or 2 Furioso's.

 

Of course there is the SR option and the Wings option for Librarian's, but in my opinion I find the SR to be a risky endeavor, that is a lot of points put into one spot and that scares me.

 

So what other options are there, how can it been done effectively?

 

Ashton

[1Drop]

I love the whole SR thing but I know what you mean, if it was a tournament I'd probably be apprehensive about it. I'm not gonna act like I'm giving you advice as I'm an amateur, I'm just gonna watch this thread to hopefully get some more all important tactics myself. All I could tell you, you will probably already know!

[Brother Nathan]

if your doing a hard and fast army a dread in a pod can work wonders. recently i ran one in a pod alongside 2 outflanking baals and 2 depstriking assault squads and ill tell you they caused carnage. if you do this though yoll want a magna grappel to geive you that little extra chance of doing something if you get the chance vs armour. sitting there for a turn if you miss with your melta sucks. (saying that my dreads grappel mised every shot but his melta didnt... ;) )or you could of course smoke but that depends on situation. as for which dread... if you have death co id take that one if not normal unless you cant afford the foc slot. then again my mutimelta dread always did well...

[Redfinger]

if your doing a hard and fast army a dread in a pod can work wonders. recently i ran one in a pod alongside 2 outflanking baals and 2 depstriking assault squads and ill tell you they caused carnage. if you do this though yoll want a magna grappel to geive you that little extra chance of doing something if you get the chance vs armour. sitting there for a turn if you miss with your melta sucks. (saying that my dreads grappel mised every shot but his melta didnt... B) )or you could of course smoke but that depends on situation. as for which dread... if you have death co id take that one if not normal unless you cant afford the foc slot. then again my mutimelta dread always did well...

 

 

Where you just running the single dread pod combo? Or did you have other pods so that you could choose when your dread dropped? The type of list I was thinking of running is the one that is in the link.

 

Ashton

[Brother Nathan]

single pod was what i did. if i was doing more i would need 3pods so that it actually gives me 2 pods first turn. unfortunatly i hated painting the pod so much im not buying another if i can help it. of course my play involves fighting a sob gunline mech list with 3 excorcists and my main objective was to shut the down quick and i got first turn and we were playing nightfighting so my dread simply couldnt get hit and did pod righ behind an excorcist parking the pod inbetween terrain in such a way as to block the dual melta sisters squad comming to thir rescue. i know it wont always work but it did.

[Redfinger]

Well three pods is what I am actually thinking of running, I am just not sure how to do it effectively.

 

Ashton

[Brother Nathan]

well if i was doing it, 2 pods with furisos and then another pod from somewhere thats not important, like tacticals who can deploy normally and still have their pod come in whenever. maby out fit that pod with th missile things and keep the others plain just to confuse the enemy. and try and drop the pods to slow stuff comming after he dreads. of course this probably depends alot on the rest of your force as if the rest of your army is stand back and shoot the dreads will likely be overwhelmed quickly, but if you are all straight in their face they will likely make mistakes and die quickly...

[SincaiN]

I love the Dreads but haven't been all that impressed. When they get into combat they destroy all which is nice :D but half the time they are just running up to something and get there right as it dies. Or they are guarding a close objective. A good example of it which was pretty funny but still left me feeling "damn if this guy could only get into combat". My friend was running a squad of Berserkers at me, My Dread and AC/HB Baal are there. My Baal is pouring lead into them for one turn then he's getting close but then next turn the Baal takes them down to 1 Sgt. The Dread melts his face off with his Melta. Was funny but a let down. The only times I've really ever got him into the fight quick was when I dropped him out of the SR but the SR didn't last the round and the dread after wiping out a squad was rendered weaponless and then killed. So he got his kicks in quick but then went out in a blaze of glory.

 

I've included at least one Dread in my lists for the last year and I can't really say he's ever been a game changer. Sorry to say really.. a Tourney is coming up at a local game store and I'll probably leave him out to see if I miss him.. though that being said I just ordered the new kit haha .. oh well.

 

But if you were going three pod 2 Dread and 1 Tac .. Go for taking out some important vehicles drop the 2 dreads down and place the pods to get cover as best as you can without blocking yourself in (or if you don't want to get charged you could if say a Thunder Squad of Termies is near), hop out and try to kill something important. Grapple it over to you to give better cover if it didn't die and is needed, Melta away. Your oppponent now as something very serious to deal with really quick so it could distract them from opjectives or your RAS coming over. The Tac Drop could come in for support or to grab an Obj if needed. Thats usually what I do with pods but typically I use one squad of DC to drop in and lay into an important squad.

 

Your list looks pretty fun though .. GL :D

[Redfinger]

you know the other idea that I have been having is just to take 2 Librarian Dreads, forgo the pods all together and let them jump their way up the field.

 

Ashton

[teemoki]

I'm new to 40k and BA in general having started up just recently but I am thinking of writing a small SR tactica from my experiences with them...look for it soon. Hopefully it will help calm your "too much points in an AV12 shell" fear which I had at the start as well. Seems like a lot of people react the same way to it. Which is extremely understandable. I was the exact same ^__^;

[Brother Chris]

I always have a furioso, and start with it on the table. Have now added a DC dread. I love them but whether they are nore effective than something else with the same points. My deep-strikers are jump-packed troops, so I wouldn't consider putting a furioso in a drop-pod. It takes too much effort to get them where you want them, when we have descent of Angels.

[SamaNagol]

Your StormRaven only needs to survive for 1 turn. Then it has made its points back. Its not that much of a gamble.

[1Drop]

you know the other idea that I have been having is just to take 2 Librarian Dreads, forgo the pods all together and let them jump their way up the field.

 

Ashton

 

How successful is flying Libby furioso's up field, it's an interesting strategy and one I wouldn't mind trying it myself!?

[Firedrake28]

This list doesn't operate under any special FOC restrictions, but hopefully it'll at least give you some inspiration.

 

Librarian with Fear and Shield

 

Sanguinary Priest with lightning claw

 

2x Furioso Dreadnoughts melta, heavy flamer, blood talons, extra armor

 

2x Assault Marines with power weapon, infernus pistol and meltagun

 

1x Assault Marines with power weapon, hand flamer and flamer

 

2x Razorbacks with twin-linked assault cannons

 

1x Razorback with twin heavy flamer

 

3x Baal Predators with assault cannon and heavy bolter sponsons

 

2x Dreadnoughts with two twin-linked autocannons

 

1/750/1,750

[liberate_tutame]

How successful is flying Libby furioso's up field, it's an interesting strategy and one I wouldn't mind trying it myself!?

 

Not hugely, you need Might of Heroes for those extra attacks, and you have to have Wings, so that means you forego Shield. They are easily shutdown by Shadow of the Warp and Eldar, and they'll be the first thing eaten by melta.

 

They are fun, and a useful psychic hood, but without a meltagun they are limited to Blood lance taking up a valuable psychic power as their shooting or reliance on assault to do damage, and they just don't have enough attacks to really make them worthy of 175 points.

 

They are fun, true. Though I've found my fragnought is a far effective choice in a drop-pod then a Libby furioso.

[Redfinger]

How successful is flying Libby furioso's up field, it's an interesting strategy and one I wouldn't mind trying it myself!?

 

Not hugely, you need Might of Heroes for those extra attacks, and you have to have Wings, so that means you forego Shield. They are easily shutdown by Shadow of the Warp and Eldar, and they'll be the first thing eaten by melta.

 

They are fun, and a useful psychic hood, but without a meltagun they are limited to Blood lance taking up a valuable psychic power as their shooting or reliance on assault to do damage, and they just don't have enough attacks to really make them worthy of 175 points.

 

They are fun, true. Though I've found my fragnought is a far effective choice in a drop-pod then a Libby furioso.

 

 

As effective as it may be what is your delivery system? That is what I am struggling with. SR's are not an option, walking on....meh...to much chance there.

 

I have a problem with the argument of a Dread being "the target of every melta out there" this is a true statement, but it is always going to be the case. If you are close enough to assault, which a dread should be doing, then you are close enough to get a blast of melta in the face....Since that is a factor that will be faced regardless, then let's minimize the amount of damage that can be done to the dread for the previous round in which the dread is walking/flying up to the target.

 

Ashton

[liberate_tutame]

As effective as it may be what is your delivery system? That is what I am struggling with. SR's are not an option, walking on....meh...to much chance there.

 

I've tried out all of the delivery systems, and I've found the best is without a doubt the drop-pod, simply because there is no defense (bar the Grey Knights Warp Quake) to the Drop-pod assault. As you said, drop-pod armies have major weaknesses and I find these are largely mitigated by taking only three drop-pods. Why not just take one? Well, one works fine, very nicely, but I find that the second one allows me to successfully threaten an enemy flank, whereas one would only be an annoyance. With three I have a range of deployment options open, as compared to the Stormraven for example.

 

I have found the Stormraven an effective delivery device, but it is too fragile and too expensive for what it is. I would only ever use it if I used Blood Talon DC dreadnoughts, and even then, after the first combat (even with fleet) a clever opponent can kite them, and the Stormraven becomes a souped up Landspeeder. I find the Stormravens tend to limit my army tactically rather then give me freedom. I'm trapped into playing an extremely aggressive way. After all a Stormraven's greatest ability is as a Fast Skimmer Assault vehicle for troops AND dreadnoughts, not as a gunboat, and a Stormraven's greatest enemy is the lascannon has a mighty range of 48" (yes there are weapons like Railguns, but I'm talking about its most regular problem). Whereas with drop-pods I can use them to block line of sight/movement, and deploy the Dreadnoughts normally as a large counter-threat to anything that get close to my mech lines, I can drop-pod one later in the game. As I said, I have a range of options.

 

I do hurt in the kill-points game, but I find that even there, the extra kill points are a price worth paying for alpha-strike and tactical options.

 

I have a problem with the argument of a Dread being "the target of every melta out there" this is a true statement, but it is always going to be the case

 

You're absolutely right. It's a lazy argument to make. But I think what I mean is that Wings will get the Librarian Furioso just far enough to be melta'd in the face by whatever units he has on the frontlines before he has done anything useful. Drop-pods have the advantage of surprise in that regard if you know what I mean. But this is just what I have found effective.

 

They might work best in pairs with Might and Wings running beside one Razorback with a Libby and one Razorback with a Sang. Priest giving them that delicious I5 and 5+. The other option that I see as viable is in a drop-pod with Lance and Might. I don't think Shield is worth it, even in this case, and at 210 it is an costly choice for a unit that is basically less effective then the humble fragnought.

[Redfinger]

I agree w/ all your saying...Did you see the list I posted? It is running 3 pods w/ 2 dreads. What are your thoughts?.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=226795

 

Ashton

[appiah4]

I've also been trying to decide between different dreadnought builds for my army and my conclusion is this:

 

The only thing a DC Dread has going for it is that it doesn't occupy an Elites slot. Other than that, everything it has are CONS:

 

It has Rage

It has AV12

It has WS5

It can't take Frag Cannons

 

So unless you have no Elites slots left, I'd never go with a DC Dread.

 

If you go for a regular furioso, I'd take the fists over claws anytime because losing a claw very, very ciritically cripples your unit.

 

That said, I love dreadnoughts and I plan to have 3. 1 Regular with Assault Cannon, Storm bolter, 1 Fisty Furioso (Frag Cannon, Melta -> Heavy Flamer, Melta swappable, magnetized) and 1 Claw DC Dread (Heavy Flamer, Melta).

[liberate_tutame]

everything it has are CONS

 

Well it has the extra attack, furious charge as well as better extra armour. Fleet is also excellent for extra range when you are disembarking, with the large dreadnought base your disembarking and assault range from a Stormraven is at least 9" and averages around 12". It's also pretty cheap and take up a troops slot rather than an elite.

As I said, I think it is certainly the best way to use the Blood Talons. But as you said they are terribly vulnerable to a single arm being taken off and it gimps them completely. I personally wouldn't run the dreadnoughts without fists (unless it was as above), you absolutely want that certainty when hitting tanks that you are going to be pen'ing anything that hits.

[SamaNagol]

It has a much greater charge range. It has more attacks. It has Furious Charge. It's marginally cheaper.

 

I quite like them

[shatter]

None shall stay my wrath!

[1Drop]

None shall stay my wrath!

 

Gotta love it... DC Dreadnaughts are probably the scariest thing in the 40k universe after the Bloodthirster.

[Liberame]

I roll double libby dreads with wings and shield. I play with a high amount of armour with pred/rhino spam. The dreads just keep up with the rhinos and preds to provide them with a 5+ cover save if I don't have any smoke launchers left. My dreads tend to have a 4+ cover from the rhinos they are protecting and help assist with anything my assault squads are charging. Eldar are an issue yes, but I havent had too many issues with shadows of the warp. And I didn't really need the extra attacks from might of the ancients to make them useful.