Dark eldar = bane of the GK?

[Lesek]

I'm no Dark Eldar expert but surely there's a leadership dropping ability in that list that you could use alongside it?

[Marshall_Brant]

Yea I'd say it's actually the opposite; GK are the bane of DE. The crucible only affects one model at a time.

 

GK can move and shoot faster and harder. Even the basic troopers with a minimal upgrade can down the heaviest DE vehicle, while the reverse is not true.

 

I take it you haven't read the rules for the CoM?

 

Every psyker within 3D6" of the bearer must pass a leadership test or be removed from play as they go stark raving mad. No saves of any kind are allowed.

 

The DE have a lot of lance weapons to counter heavy tanks. Also the Ravager can move at cruising speed and still fire all it's Dark Lances. When equipped with retrofire jets it can deep strike. Night shield means your non template/barrage weapons have their range reduced by 6".

 

IMHO I think the Dark Eldar would hit faster and harder then the Grey Knights.

 

I'm no Dark Eldar expert but surely there's a leadership dropping ability in that list that you could use alongside it?

 

Skimming through my DE 'dex I do not see one.

[Whitefireinferno]

The DE still hit Harder and Faster the the GK will the only problem is the if that Fails the DE have very little ability to last with their paper planes and wet paper armour the GK have as good as a shot as any Marine army to take the Glass hammer of the Dark Elfdar. In my experence the DE have not changed much from their old methods of Raider and ravager spam and Now Venom(I think) and ravager spam and If the they haven't won in the first two turns they are not likely to easily pull a win out of their asses.

[Chaplain Declis]

I've been playing a few Gray Knights armies, and I've found that the Dark Eldar are very nasty against them. But Dark Eldar have some units that shouldn't be used, and some glaring weaknesses.

 

For example, a Talos is no longer as amazing, since they can instant-death them. Plus, the Power Weapons ignore Feel No Pain.

 

And yes, foot-slogging Dark Eldar is now pointless, since they can take Psybolt Ammunition which will wound on 2+. That, and their weapons will often wound on a 2+ as well. So the Gray Knights will have no trouble putting wounds on Dark Eldar.

 

Also depressing is the high initiative that the Gray Knights have makes some units such as Warriors/Wracks/Incubi pointless, especially Incubi since there only protection being 3+ Armour Saves and Feel No Pain, which get ignored.

 

But a Reaver Jetbike squad is very good, especially with Cluster Caltrops against the Inquisitorial Henchmen, once you bust them out of their Chimeras/Rhinos.

 

It certainly helps that Wyches come with a rather interesting 4+ Dodge save which has helped me save more wounds than should be allowed.

 

My point being that Dark Eldar have a way of dealing with the Gray Knights rather well.

[Haunter!]

Even the basic troopers with a minimal upgrade can down the heaviest DE vehicle, while the reverse is not true.

The same could be said for any flavor of marine, really. I've had a raider fall to bolt pistol fire before.

 

The only situation I see the CoM being particularly useful is when you throw it down with multiple units hit. It seems that you only need to graze a single model to force the Justicar to test. However, you need to specifically hit an IC to force them to test. I could see it being pretty nasty if four of your Justicars and your HQ all died in the same shot. The real damage is lowering the leadership of the squads. It has potential, but it's a lot like a battlewagon's deff rolla; you should be able to see it coming and get out of the way.

 

The Dark Eldar's real tool against the Grey Knights is Lady Malys with Wyches. Immunity to psychic powers for the whole squad? Yes please! 4++ on the entire squad? I'll take it! Make Brotherhood Champions and Purifiers look like chumps while you make Librarians flat out mad. Hammerhand still hurts though. Then again, rule one of the Eldar is to pick your fights carefully and work together. Friendship is magic!

 

Also, Liquifier Guns and Disintegrator Cannons. Nasty to all flavors of power armor.

 

GKs have a lot to deal with DE though, so the fight is far from one sided. Psybolt ammo, hammerhand, rad grenades (well, they ruin EVERYONE'S day), and infinite power weapons are no walks in the park to deal with when you have flak armor on your entire army. Remember, at the end of the day, anything that kills a guardsman will kill a Dark Eldar.

[Liberame]

I'm no Dark Eldar expert but surely there's a leadership dropping ability in that list that you could use alongside it?

 

Vehicle upgrade, Torment Grenade Launchers, within 6" of vehicle suffers -1 to leadership, doesnt stack

[Cmdr Shepard]

Yea I'd say it's actually the opposite; GK are the bane of DE. The crucible only affects one model at a time.

 

GK can move and shoot faster and harder. Even the basic troopers with a minimal upgrade can down the heaviest DE vehicle, while the reverse is not true.

I have to agree. The crucible is very "chance sensitive": 3D6 can be not enough to affect the desired number of models at the desired time. Beside GK have a Space Marine LD, from 9 to 10. It's not easy to fail such test. It can happen, of course but still not easy.

 

GK shooting capabilities are devastating for DE. I played DE several times since the new codex release and I have recently played a couple fo games against them with my GK and I had no problem. Sometimes I didn't have to bother about CC. I just unleashed a torrent of ranged fire, what DE hate most ;)

[Prathios]

Immune to plasma is a bit of an exaggeration; you have to buy a specific, not that commonly used, HQ and then buy a piece of wargear that's of questionable utility in an all-comers list.

 

Alright, fair enough but it still means that plasma weapons are useless against them if the army is set up the right way.

The problem is that the text in the codex didn't specifically state whether this only applied to the things which suffered the plasma rule or are specifically noted to be plasma pistols/rifles/cannons. To my knowledge plasma isn't a rules specific quality of a weapon like melta weapons.

This means that it's actually possible to argue the effect covers things like Tyranid bio-plasma and covers a good chunk of the Tau arsenal (pulse weapons, burst cannons, kroot rifles for example).

 

Also consider that the wargear turns any plasma weapons fired at it as if they were BS1. Meaning that things like Leman Russ Executioners are useless if the Grey Knight player you're facing has prepared for them and it's reasonable to expect anything carrying it to survive a shot from a Stormblade. Along with anything else within twelve inches of an inquisitor carrying a plasma syphon.

 

Actually just for effect, Pulse, weapons, burst cannons, and kroot rifles are not plasma based. Pulse weapons fire tiny pellets at hypervelocity, burst cannons fire something similar, and kroot use flintlock rifles and other primitive weapons. In some cases Tau have upgraded their stuff to hit harder but all three of these weapons are still solid projectile. (It's based on railgun tech.)

[death_incarnite]

i deffinately agree that kroot rifles arent efected but and i quote "pg 29b Pulse rifle

the pulse rifle uses an introduction field to propel a particle, which reacts by breaking down to create a plasma pulse as it leaves the barrel" so it does use plasma technology, think a gun with major recoil, also vespid use laser not plasma, if you read from the armoury burst cannon is effected, plasma rifles, all pulse weaponry, but when someone mentioned projecting a shell at hyper velocity thats rail guns not pulse weaponry, and lastly plasma and ion are two completely different beasts

[Lord_Caerolion]

Nope, even the kroot rifles have been upgraded by the Tau to fire a plasma charge. They used to be primitive solid-shot weapons, but now they have special bullets.

[Prathios]

Nope, even the kroot rifles have been upgraded by the Tau to fire a plasma charge. They used to be primitive solid-shot weapons, but now they have special bullets.

 

So much for my theory that tau weapons had consistent depictions lol.

[jeffersonian000]

Oddly enough, the new GK codex actually defines plasma weaponry in the equipment section as plasma pistols, plasma guns, and plasma cannons on pg58, just as they define flamer weapons on pg56, and melta weapons on pg 57. Yet they avoided defining daemons this time around. Thanks again, Ward!

 

SJ

[Massaen]

A member of B&C recently won a tournament with Witch Hunters, which is a 3rd edition codex.It really can be a challenge to face these codices.

 

Thats me! I love my Sisters of Battle! I also won the 2004GT with my pure grey knights... looking forward to the next event in August to see if can get them back into 5th ed!

[Spacefrisian]

Oddly enough, the new GK codex actually defines plasma weaponry in the equipment section as plasma pistols, plasma guns, and plasma cannons on pg58, just as they define flamer weapons on pg56, and melta weapons on pg 57. Yet they avoided defining daemons this time around. Thanks again, Ward!

 

SJ

 

 

Pretty clear only the Plasmapistol/ gun/ cannon are effected, no mention of any other plasmaweapon (besides most weapons are by a type of plasma and one main rule should be that fluff and Rules arent the same.)

[Whitefireinferno]

Heh if someone tried to push the issue of basicly All Tau stuff being effected by tha anti Plasma wargear thing. I would half expect one of three things happening,

 

1) Table flip followed by yelling

 

2) Dread socking

 

3) being "that guy" from now on

 

Your realise it gives examples of what it effects Plasma Pistols, Plasma guns and Plasma cannons. So of the Tau weapons all I see it effecting are the Plasma Rifle and even then you could argue it. As for the other weapons since when does it tell you that you are to look to the Fluff of the weapons to denote if it is plasma or not.

[Gentlemanloser]

Well, wouldn't it have been nice for the UPS to work off of a 'rule' (like say Melta...) instead of some ambiguous fluff. Are Plasma Guns Plasma weapons? Really? How so? Thier name?

 

If we start using names to determine rules, we open a can of worms.

 

I would have been better to either give 'Plasma' weapons a descriptive rule, or do something like make the UPS work on any weapon that 'Gets Hot' for example.

 

Now there's no blurring fluff with rules.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Well, that's the thing, plasma rifles and bio-plasma should be affected to (although I agree that while pulse weaponry is technically plasma weaponry, they shouldn't be affected, just so that you don't get a dreadsock to the head), but the rules are entirely ambiguous. Hopefully it'll be answered in the FAQ, whenever that comes out.

[Whitefireinferno]

I would rule it as anything with plasma in its name So that would include Plasma rifles and Bio Plasma since it is giving you at least a key word to go off because as it stands it really only effects marines Sisters and Guard however using the Word Plasma does not really do a great deal to half the other armies Like the Eldar's but it really could go either way due to the lack of a grounded Plasma rule.

[Gentlemanloser]

Names are dangerous things to base rules on.

 

For example, if you had a Unit called 'Tyranid Hunters', would they be subect to any unit that had Prefered Enemy: Tyranids, as they have Tryanid in thier name?

[Crynn]

Just off topic.

 

I have found that indeed it is grey knights that give dark eldar a very hard time.

Venerable and normal psyflemen dreads are just too effective at killing their paper planes and they don't really care about lances. purifyers just hurt with i6 and purifying flame. str storm bolters allow every unit to demech dark eldar. I have personally used interceptors with an incierator and killed (with storm bolters as well) 12 witches in cover in a single turn using the 30" jump. Shrouding is amazing, rerolling 1's to wound is actually very good as are psycannons. As long as GK's have some ranged anti tank so they cannot be kited, I am finding them a breeze versus DE.

 

Regards,

 

Crynn

[BrotherWasted]

The only thing that is remotely scary is a squad of Incubi rocking up on one of your Strike Squads. Storm Bolters wreck raiders even without Psybolt Ammo, don't forget all those Psycannons that will be cutting down both the Raiders, but every single squad in their book aside from Incubi and a select handful of others. By the time they get to combat you should have wiped out two units or so, in my experience.

[Chengar Qordath]

Another thing of note for vs. Dark Eldar, one of the main GK weaknesses (low model count) can actually be beneficial against the DE. One of the things Dark Eldar can do very well is use their mobility pick off any isolated units and/or tear into your army's flanks. Smaller GK forces mean fewer opportunities to do so. Also, fewer units = fewer chances to get Pain Tokens.

[Crynn]

Another thing of note for vs. Dark Eldar, one of the main GK weaknesses (low model count) can actually be beneficial against the DE. One of the things Dark Eldar can do very well is use their mobility pick off any isolated units and/or tear into your army's flanks. Smaller GK forces mean fewer opportunities to do so. Also, fewer units = fewer chances to get Pain Tokens.

 

These are very good points and people seem to forget that there are actually some advantages to small compact armies. Kill points is the obvious one however both these points above are true as well. Good post sir.

 

Regards,

 

Crynn

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think DE can do well versus GK as they are geared towards killing MEQ. Dark light weapons are the bane of Paladins and they can spam S8 easily. Poisoned weapons and S8 is going to work well versus NDK. The biggest issue for DE versus GK are psyflemen.

 

G :devil:

[Gentlemanloser]

These are very good points and people seem to forget that there are actually some advantages to small compact armies. Kill points is the obvious one however both these points above are true as well. Good post sir.

 

I've played our Deldar player twice (he runs twin WWP Hemo's and Incbi, Wyches, Talos, Beastmasters, etc).

 

First game I got tabled by end of turn 3. There were some bad rolls, like failing a Moral test from losing a CC to a Talos, and as I'd pulled back from the WWP I was close to my table edge and promptly ran off the board.

 

Second game, I won a Kill Point mission by a substantial advantage, even thoguh it went to 7 turn and by the end of the game all I had left were two Rhino's and a Razorback. :devil:

 

He just couldn't get to those three before the end of 7 to table me (altohugh he had very little left himself!).