Dan The Deamon Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Just wanted to ask a quick question to see where everyone is standing, using the current C:CSM book, against all of the new armies and builds creeping up. Are the grey knights giving us a hard time in any department? out-shooting us, better in combat? what's the consensus on mixing it up with Dark eldar? I know they've been out for a while, but where do our strengths lie as these new threats begin to creep up on us. I'm pretty far removed from gaming, as I live hours from any stores, and my current gaming group doesn't mix it up a whole lot. I do aim to build lists based off units i think are fun, sometimes my "fun" units tend to be competitive (Daemon prince, zerks, autocannon havocs) but i strive to create lists that are original, and unique. So when i'm using my crazy dreadnoughts, watered down raptors, and estranged anti-termicide terminator squads, i can't always fall back on the tried and true lash/plague/oblit spam to solve my problems. Without turning this into another wishlist/whine-fest, i'd like to hear and see some of the lessons and tricks people are learning and using against these new threats. Reserving against shunt threats? Castling up against raider spam? are our older builds behind the times? What's going on in the long war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 out-shooting us, yes better in combat? that depands , but considering they do out shot us it is not that hard to out assault us after 2-3 turns of sustained fire . Even some of the weaker builds like the terminator army give chaos a bad hair day , because we dont have good tools to deal with mass terminators . what's the consensus on mixing it up with Dark eldar? we castle and if they dont play the turn 3-4 armies they bounce of and die . but DE are one of those "balanced" armies GW did , they dont realy matter in the end game [unless someone plays 1ksons or NM , but then it is their own foult for choosing sub par builds]. Without turning this into another wishlist/whine-fest, i'd like to hear and see some of the lessons and tricks people are learning and using against these new threats. we dont have two or three viable units per support slot , so we cant realy do that . bikes or raptors dont make our armies work bettter against new armies [in fact because of the point/effectivness issues list with those work worse then the normal armies] , so there are no new tricks . We more or less play the same thing over and over again and hope that A our opponents didnt test enough/or we tested their army more B they dont know how to play and make a move that warrents a DQ or judge warning [which offten ends with them playing more safe and/or doing errors] C we bend over. Reserving against shunt threats? Castling up against raider spam? are our older builds behind the times? 2dps/plague-zerker-csm[pick mix]/oblits. only anwser we have. What's going on in the long war? nothing . no new dex in sight , time line is frozen pre 13th crusade . same old , same old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestorm40k Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Reserving against shunt threats? Castling up against raider spam? are our older builds behind the times? 2dps/plague-zerker-csm[pick mix]/oblits. only anwser we have. This pretty much sums up what I've found. This is the only effective CSM build at the moment, at least in terms of competitive lists. Lots of options if you're looking for fun, themed armies, but the build above is the only truly effective one. With no Codex in sight until about 2013/14, 'tis the way things will be for a while... :teehee: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 In as few words as possible: we're getting hammered. Every new Codex GW releases finds new and unwholesome ways to hammer us even more, or to neutralize what few tricks still remain to us that some other army doesn't perform better than we do. Even at maximum optimization, our only recourse is to rely on the dice to favor us or a scenario to have some special condition to exploit in order to achieve victory, and more often than not "victory" means "draw". To steal an analogy from Blood Reaver: our Codex is the Covenant of Blood, burning with the fires of a thousand wounds, hurling itself in a Pegasus-esque suicide run to try and strike its foes one more time with the ultimate sacrifice because it has no other means left to do so; we have yet to find an Echo of Damnation. :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogi Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 No Khestra the codex is just 10,000 years old and full of out dated equipment. You know like Chaos. And played by Cynical and bitter people, you know like chaos. haha. I have no answers to make our dex stand up let alone be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShiftyWolf Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 No Khestra the codex is just 10,000 years old and full of out dated equipment. You know like Chaos. And played by Cynical and bitter people, you know like chaos. ^ Awesome. Yeah I haven't been playing much at all lately but seeing all the new stuff armies are getting I'm not holding my breath for a victory when I, or if I, play a game sometime... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Reserving against shunt threats? Castling up against raider spam? are our older builds behind the times? 2dps/plague-zerker-csm[pick mix]/oblits. only anwser we have. This pretty much sums up what I've found. This is the only effective CSM build at the moment, at least in terms of competitive lists. Lots of options if you're looking for fun, themed armies, but the build above is the only truly effective one. With no Codex in sight until about 2013/14, 'tis the way things will be for a while... ;) getting your arse handed to you isnt fun lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shas'o R'Vre Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 I've recently moved into a less competitive environment for gaming, and I've found that even there my army struggles. Got my backside handed to me several times and I'm really quite irritated. But one thing I have found is that now that people expect us to take 2xDP's/Zerks/PM's/Oblits, it often throws people when we play varied specialised builds, such as Raiders'n'Zerks or Death Guard with Defilers (a build a friend of mine runs to great effect, lots of PM's, Defilers, two Chosen units outflanking with Meltas, DP/Nurgle Lord to taste). On the bright side, My oft overlooked Crimson Fist army has come out of the cupboard :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Uriah Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I'll admit that I fielded my Word Bearers army a couple of weeks ago to great effect, wiping my opponent's Land Raider-spammed Black Consuls completely out in an 1850 point grudge rematch, annihilation game. I only lost only my Daemon Prince, which apparently intimidated him enough that he dropped nearly all of his firepower on it over the course of three turns, and one of my two Defilers, with a bare handful of other casualties that night. It was the most convincing victory I've pulled out in a while, at 9 kill points to 2. All things considered, though, the Dark Gods must have blessed my dice, because I did ridiculously well on all my rolls that night: like Dark Apostle Aristikapha, my counts-as Abaddon, wiping out an entire squad of assaulting Vanguard Vets in one turn of close combat before they even got the chance to strike. Or my Daemon Prince, who shrugged off lascannon, heavy bolter, heavy flamer, bolter, plasma and hurricane bolter fire for three turns. He was utterly ineffective in close combat that night, but his being an excellent bullet sponge probably saved my whole army. In all fairness though, my Word Bearers and Thousand Sons usually don't fare quite so well as that: my TSons got mopped up by Black Templars the week before, despite one of my icon bearers making 14 (!) invulnerable saves in a row and surviving two rounds of CC versus Terminators and a Marshal in TDA. If only his brothers in dust had fared so well, and one of my Aspiring Sorcerers hadn't given himself a terminal headache in turn 1.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razblood Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Had a game against Crimson Fists led by Kantor attached to a 10 man sternguard squad with my pure Khorne army: Khârn, 2 units zerkers, 2 units marines, raider, 3 rhinos. It was a kicking and a half which ended up with Khârn and his zerker unit being mowed down through the combined fire of the sternguard, a unit of sniper scouts and a tac unit. All in all an igmonious end ;) Fun was had but I can't help but feel that I would have been better off using the 3.5 dex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 and more often than not "victory" means "draw". That hits close to home for me, unfortunately. Too many times I either find myself with victory slipping through my fingers because my fluffy choices can't sustain their role the entire game, or I'm scrabbling hard to exploit a mistake my opponent has made. Either way I end up with a miserable sense of relief when the objectives/kill points tally up to a tie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Dark Eldars can be tricky to play,especialy if the guy knows a little of what he's doing. An exemple of something really bothersome: While i play a full Word Eaters list;Khârn,Zerkers,Rhinos;Raider,Defilers and a few deamons. Overall my Zerkers are pretty feared,because they still pakc a mean punhc, but you gotta admit that they lost a bit of their versality with the lose of the Gods Wargear... So long story short,my Zerkers against DE Wyches, so there is 12 Wyches with Lelith. I charge them with one of my Zerker squad, and then i've got the surprise, that they wear 'nades that negate me my assault bonus Attack...,ok i think lets not be sad, its "only" 8 attacks less,but then 4 of my guys where reduced to 1 attack each...,because Lelith count as being equiped with a net(wich is totally ridiculous to count her hair as a net!,seriously don't you think that a experienced fighter will simply grab her by the hair and pull her from all his might and nail her to the ground?, hum bakc on topic",BUT!, ther is also 2 other Wyches with Nets! Im' like ok i only lose 1 attacks each anyway, and no..., their cumulatifs!3 Nets means minus 3 attacks!!! So the only thing i can do with this army, i'm forbidden to do it because of this crap rule! The real issue isn't really the Chaos units in their selfs, its the crap wargear we have...,sometimes even less effective as regular Marines!, and don't speak me about Wolfes or B Angels or even those ridicoulus GK who as more gear then the whole of the codexes reunited! We Have the manpower,but not the rigth Equipement, to be still knowed as one of the most dreadfull army of the universe...,where a laughing stock most of the time at best! Not as worse as Tau's,but nearly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spear of Achilles Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 I play Sons of Malice/Chaos Undivided and a Nurgle list, orks and now a Raven Guard Dual LC troops + Bikes. I love my Chaos, but have not played a game with them in the local tourneys in a year (I want prize loot). Which sucks, cause they are to me tied with orks in coolness/fun. The last time I did play them was at Hard Boyz, and won two of three (tied middile game, using of all things a 3-dread list...they went berserk 3 times and actually chased down a vulkan land speeder squadron...bagged 4th place out of 19). The tie game was vs a Logan-Wing termy spam... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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