AGPO Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 I was thinking today about devastator squads, and how they don't really fall within the modus operandi of the Blood Angels. Every other unit in the chapter, with the exception of dreadnoughts is fast moving and even dreads are most often deployed via storm raven or drop pod. With the re-release of the Grey Knights I looked at the pergation squads - these guys were the kind of rapid moving, close range fire support squads I imagined the Blood Angels fielding. I know a lot of gamers field melta/plasma spam honour guard, and I'm currently in the process of building a foot plasma spam honour guard in a las-plas razorback. I always felt it was a bit funny that I'd be fielding an honour guard that would never be fielded anywhere near my HQ choice. The thought occured to me that I could model and paint these guys as a close support Dev squad. It solves both my fluff dilemas, makes for a cool unique unit and allows me to actually field a unit with blue devastator helms. Even the Sanguinary noviate is explained - you're gonna need a medic around that much plasma weaponry! What do you all think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229779-blood-angels-devs/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERZERKER! Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 I think it's a great idea. Its more than feasible that Devs would deploy as a Special weapons unit rather than a Heavy weapons one, afterall their training is in the use of non-standard firearms. This would actually fit the theme of the BA better; fast moving and able to get into combat. As for the sanguinary noviate, he might be deployed anywhere in the army (fluff wise), and as you say the plasma squad would make a lot of sense. I would try to stay away from armour that is too fancy, however, or any kind of chapter champion type sergeants. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229779-blood-angels-devs/#findComment-2758457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt. Blood Donator Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 It's a bit Chaos-y. But then again, that is what Blood Angels are in a nut-shell. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229779-blood-angels-devs/#findComment-2758478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Drop Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 I really like this idea... Might have to borrow it myself :tu: I was initially going for a melta spam HG but now I'm making them (or atleast my current plan) Melta gun + LC + banner Melta gun + LC LC + SS LC + SS And for the models I'm using DA vets but with SG death masks and SG winged jump packs and will be painted gold with dark red robes and White wings, they will be my 'Angels Of Death' and will accompany Dante as a strategic multi purpose unit which can drop in, pop something then massacre the occupants. The AOD are ment to depict Sanguinius and drop from the skies and annihilate something then disappear again (with the help of dantes skills) I want to write fluff for them but for what I want them to be they need to use dantes special rules so I need to make them dantes own death squad, do you think it'll be sound to write some fluff for a special unit that acompanies Dante into battle or will that contradict fluff for Dante and not be aloud? (sorry, I should write my own thread for this, I just got carried away once I started writting) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229779-blood-angels-devs/#findComment-2758546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 I was thinking today about devastator squads, and how they don't really fall within the modus operandi of the Blood Angels. Every other unit in the chapter, with the exception of dreadnoughts is fast moving and even dreads are most often deployed via storm raven or drop pod. With the re-release of the Grey Knights I looked at the pergation squads - these guys were the kind of rapid moving, close range fire support squads I imagined the Blood Angels fielding. I know a lot of gamers field melta/plasma spam honour guard, and I'm currently in the process of building a foot plasma spam honour guard in a las-plas razorback. I always felt it was a bit funny that I'd be fielding an honour guard that would never be fielded anywhere near my HQ choice. The thought occured to me that I could model and paint these guys as a close support Dev squad. It solves both my fluff dilemas, makes for a cool unique unit and allows me to actually field a unit with blue devastator helms. Even the Sanguinary noviate is explained - you're gonna need a medic around that much plasma weaponry! What do you all think? Why on earth wouldnt Dev squads fall in the modus operandi of the Blood Angels? Lets consider a few famous BA campaigns - Makan where the 9th Co was fielded en mass on a ridge vs chaos (where Abbadon and a load of Bezerkers charged their position and resisted assault units attempts to retrieve the fallen BA's bodies), Tartarus Hive (death of Tycho) - a siege, Armageddon 2 - where the entire chapter deep-struck into an ork horde, cutting its leading edge off, blocking lines or retreat/supply etc and holding that line from all comers till they could be reinforced. As for fast moving - they're just as fast-moving as a Tactical squad. Devs are very much a 'BA' unit. I'm not meanign to be mean/harsh or anything, but it pains me to see people wrongly limiting their understanding of what the BA's 'are'... Regarding Honour Guard units - they are not just bodyguards for a character, they are a guard for Honour. This could just as easily be that they are representing that character in a situation that he cannot be there himself, or guarding their companies honour/showing face to inspire their brothers etc. That being said - a 9th Co comand suqad is probably going to be made up of 9th Co marines, so blue helmets etc would be a fair assumption. Pictures when its done please... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229779-blood-angels-devs/#findComment-2759334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGPO Posted May 15, 2011 Author Share Posted May 15, 2011 Fair play Leonaides, that's several good points. IN terms of MO I suppose I was looking more at the meta than anything else. True in the background BA fight a number of static engagements but TBH your standard tabletop BA army is going to be focused around close quarters - it's what we're designed for. In terms of the honour guard again you have a point, but as I recall (please correct me if I'm wrong) the point of the honour guard as described in the codex was that promising marines could serve directly alongside their CO and learn command skills. Using them as a completely seperate fire support squad just doesn't 'feel' right in my opinion, and this role would be more suited to devastator marines. In the end I want my army to resemble a rapid deployment force, and this vision of devs works well with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229779-blood-angels-devs/#findComment-2759457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yncarne Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Also doesn't work if you want that plasma peanut butter to have that chocolate jump pack. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229779-blood-angels-devs/#findComment-2759494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadieau Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 I think it's a cool idea. It will not be WYSIWYG though. Not an issue for friendly games where you let your opponent in on what's up. I do disagree that Devs aren't BAish. That tip of the spear you have in your opponents back field will be very appreciative of some heavy support. With LC and ML 48" range they shoud be able to put fire where it is needed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229779-blood-angels-devs/#findComment-2759522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGPO Posted May 15, 2011 Author Share Posted May 15, 2011 I just see them as far more likely to use faster fire support. Storm ravens and fast land raiders, vindies and predators are all better fire support options to a fast moving army than devastators. My army is almost entirely close ranged, with the only weapon with more than 24" range being on my land speeders, so this idea fits better IMHO. As far as WYSIWYG, it'll be a five man squad with four special weapons and a sanguinary noviate, there's only one unit it could be so I doubt it'll lead to confusion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229779-blood-angels-devs/#findComment-2759644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeller Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 I was under the impression that as a codex chapter the heavy weapons fit the theme quite well. We like to close fast which is why the devestators have fast rhinos. Move quick, deploy quick, respond to miscellaneous needs quick. Cool idea though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229779-blood-angels-devs/#findComment-2759645 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 I don't see a huge issue with devastators in our codex, for one thing they better match most lists than the tac-squads. That's from a strict rule perspective, not fluff. The rapid fire grenade launchers from the fake leaked codex would have been a nice option though.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229779-blood-angels-devs/#findComment-2759923 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBMAKENZIE Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Regarding Honour Guard units - they are not just bodyguards for a character, they are a guard for Honour. This could just as easily be that they are representing that character in a situation that he cannot be there himself, or guarding their companies honour/showing face to inspire their brothers etc. That being said - a 9th Co comand suqad is probably going to be made up of 9th Co marines, so blue helmets etc would be a fair assumption. Pictures when its done please... THIS! They are what traditionally the Colour party was. The protector of their commander as well as the Company's Banner and therefore the honour of the unit itself. As well as that they housed some of the toughest in the whole company and were darned good at fighting even compared to grenadiers (Who were traditionally the biggest people in the battalion) I think its much cooler to model them up as these tough as nail warriors personally. I just see them as far more likely to use faster fire support. Storm ravens and fast land raiders, vindies and predators are all better fire support options to a fast moving army than devastators. My army is almost entirely close ranged, with the only weapon with more than 24" range being on my land speeders, so this idea fits better IMHO. Something to consider is that sometimes a little long range fire power is really really nice to have even if it doesnt seem to mesh with the rest of your weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229779-blood-angels-devs/#findComment-2760079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_Dew Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 What i dont see is why we have so many tac squads in the chapter considering they're supposed to be the better trained and have the most self control of the BA (before you get to the vets) and with the apparent high attrition rate we have. seeing as we're a close assualt army we have a low amount of assualt squads and if you want close support Dev squads then take heavy bolters and multi-melta's in a rhino or razorback.... yeah i know some what off topic feel free to ignor or delete and i may have to start a howwould you organise the chapter thread some time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229779-blood-angels-devs/#findComment-2760110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGPO Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 They are what traditionally the Colour party was. The protector of their commander as well as the Company's Banner and therefore the honour of the unit itself. As well as that they housed some of the toughest in the whole company and were darned good at fighting even compared to grenadiers (Who were traditionally the biggest people in the battalion) I think its much cooler to model them up as these tough as nail warriors personally. This is a great point if you're fielding them with a banner, blood champion or any sort of command squad extras, but loads of people seem to use them purely for special weapon spam, so that they no longer resemble an honour guard. It's this type of unit I want to build as devs. Something to consider is that sometimes a little long range fire power is really really nice to have even if it doesnt seem to mesh with the rest of your weapons. Without a doubt, and I have some ideas for a more mobile looking heavy dev squad in the future, but this is a modelling idea for a unit I'm taking in my list, and I don't have any devs in there yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229779-blood-angels-devs/#findComment-2760238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBMAKENZIE Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Something to consider is that sometimes a little long range fire power is really really nice to have even if it doesnt seem to mesh with the rest of your weapons. Without a doubt, and I have some ideas for a more mobile looking heavy dev squad in the future, but this is a modelling idea for a unit I'm taking in my list, and I don't have any devs in there yet. Well I think everyone agrees thats its a pretty good idea. I just think taking abit of time to make it modeled like a colour party even if you arent taking a full on fully beneficial banner is just so worth it. :P You just seemed to make it sounds like taking a ranged unit to go with your army just wasnt an option I think it certainly could be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229779-blood-angels-devs/#findComment-2760254 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 What i dont see is why we have so many tac squads in the chapter considering they're supposed to be the better trained and have the most self control of the BA (before you get to the vets) and with the apparent high attrition rate we have.seeing as we're a close assualt army we have a low amount of assualt squads and if you want close support Dev squads then take heavy bolters and multi-melta's in a rhino or razorback.... yeah i know some what off topic feel free to ignor or delete and i may have to start a howwould you organise the chapter thread some time. Well, we're not a 'close assault army', and we dont have a lack of assault squads. We have a 'standard' number of tactical squads because fluff-wise tactically speaking, a tactical squad is simplky more useful in a wider number of situations than an assault squad. TT does not equal fluff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229779-blood-angels-devs/#findComment-2760392 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_Dew Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Well, we're not a 'close assault army', and we dont have a lack of assault squads. We have a 'standard' number of tactical squads because fluff-wise tactically speaking, a tactical squad is simplky more useful in a wider number of situations than an assault squad. TT does not equal fluff. Not even with them having upto 6 assualt squads as troops (with DC them being 30 man strong each) the high usage of flamers and meltas? Being the only set of chapters using landraiders as troop transports? not to mention them being able to us the stormraven gunship because there prefured air assualts? The sangunary guard the most elite of the elite of the chapters being glorified assualt squads? And your point about us having the standard number of tactical squads is fluff itself, Its like saying in the Space Wolfs there are 3 squads of wolfguard 500 gray hunter squads and 10 blood claw pack and 1 longfang just because the gray hunters are more flexable fluff wise. Ok we know we follow the codex and that it's purely fluff reason Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229779-blood-angels-devs/#findComment-2760763 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skawolf Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Wow, I was going to make an honour guard special weapon team in honour guard colors, but this sounds way cooler. Thanks for sharing your idea man. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229779-blood-angels-devs/#findComment-2760837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Well, we're not a 'close assault army', and we dont have a lack of assault squads. We have a 'standard' number of tactical squads because fluff-wise tactically speaking, a tactical squad is simplky more useful in a wider number of situations than an assault squad. TT does not equal fluff. Not even with them having upto 6 assualt squads as troops (with DC them being 30 man strong each) Tabletop rules - irrelevant in a background sense. the high usage of flamers and meltas? Personal preference of the guy who makes the army list - based on the TT effectiveness of the guns. Irrelevant. My armies use more plasmaguns actually. Being the only set of chapters using landraiders as troop transports? BT's and Crusaders? not to mention them being able to us the stormraven gunship because there prefured air assualts? And the Hawk Lords, who are a definate 'air cav' specialist chapter dont have Storm Ravens... So the fact we have SR's is less to do with the fact we like mobile air assault and mor eto do with the fact we are lucky enough to actually have Storm Ravens. The sangunary guard the most elite of the elite of the chapters being glorified assualt squads? Sang Guard having Jump packs nothing to do with their original position/role as bodyguards to a flying Primarch maybe? And your point about us having the standard number of tactical squads is fluff itself, Yep - rather well documented. We have just as many assault units as any other Joe Bloggs codex chapter - we just prefer to use them more often. Its like saying in the Space Wolfs there are 3 squads of wolfguard 500 gray hunter squads and 10 blood claw pack and 1 longfang just because the gray hunters are more flexable fluff wise. Ok we know we follow the codex and that it's purely fluff reason In a fluff-related discussion - that is kind of important. But ho-hum. That's just my opinion... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229779-blood-angels-devs/#findComment-2760888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeller Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 GW is doing to BA what they did to CSM to a degree. CSM fluff of their Gods and troops has become muggled and simplistic. BA are being transformed into a jump pack indulging army of blood raged psychos that don't know the meaning of ranged firepower. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229779-blood-angels-devs/#findComment-2761117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_Dew Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 @Leonaides And mine was nothing but my opinion based on what i knew from my perspective, but as we both differ on our opnions lets do the right thing and accept our opnions are some what in conflict and move on since we are both moving away from the OP for that i blame myself Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229779-blood-angels-devs/#findComment-2761322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGPO Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 No worries, the OP has moved on and started making the models anyway. :P (pics in my blog once I get hold of a new camera.) On the fluff debate though all marines do devastator, assault and tactical rotations over the course of their careers, so any tactical squad could be pressed into service as an additional assault squad if the situation called for it. In the army all that matters is your capability, rather than your official role. This is the case in the British Army with 144 Para - they're a medical unit but because they have the capability to be dropped behind enemy lines and are combat trained like any other Para unit, they are forbidden from declaring red cross status. Overall though Leonaides has a very valid point - fluff-wise we are a perfectly codex chapter that just has to make allowances for the flaw. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229779-blood-angels-devs/#findComment-2761942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 No worries, the OP has moved on Is that allowed under the forum rules??? Surely not! :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229779-blood-angels-devs/#findComment-2761960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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