Isstvan V

[Gree]

I think you're making the mistake of viewing that situation from a 40k perspective and not a 30k perspective. Granted they wouldn't be too terribly different but I am under the impression that the 40k perspective wouldn't even blink at at a seven figure casualty list whereas a 30k mentality hasn't developed that sort of 'reasoning' yet, what with logic, science and reasoning still being the watch words of the day (words that might get you strung up in 40k depending on who you're talking to). At this moment in time my whole arguement has been based upon the 30k perspective as I understand it.

 

Even in 30k humanity has been at mass warfare for 200 years across the stars. Billions, if not trillions of army troopers would have died in that warfare.. The British lost a million men in World War I. Many other countries lost much more in that same war. Now imagine that taking place on a much, much larger scale for 200 years.

 

A million is a drop in the bucket even to 30k.

[Olis]

I see your point in regards to scale and I'll concede that a million may very well be peanuts, even in 30k. But I still think it'd be ill advised to send in Army units when astartes are supposed to be slaughtering each other - their effectiveness would be severly diminished as a useful asset on Istvann V.

[Ubermensch Commander]

Assuming this is approached from an in-universe, non-genre savvy standpoint: Still would have checked to see if the guys I am sending are loyal.

3 Legions and their Primarchs just turned, amongst them the most favored son/general hand of the Emperor and the only Legion given the privilege of bearing the Aquila and dubbed the freaking Emperor's Children, so it stands to reason the rot may have spread. But let us presume all other Legions passed the "won't stab me in the back" test.

 

Allowing for my pick of litter in terms of Legions, all available regardless of distance and other factors that kept certain Legions from joining in in the regular 40K verse, I would choose Blood Angels, Ultramarines, Imperial Fists, Iron Warriors, White Scars, Raven Guard(possibly substituting Night Lords), Word Bearers. While I personally dislike many of the Legions named above, their inclusion serves a wider purpose than just the destruction of renegade Legions.

 

Istvaan exposes an issue that cannot be ignored: Loyalties are not as cemented as they ought to be. If the legion with the greatest cause to be loyal turns, frictions and discontent within the Adeptus Astartes runs the risk of open rebellion. Bonds of brotherhood MUST be forged and grudges resolved. With any luck, a unified front and combined victory would do much to cement that. Unfortunately, certain consideration would prevent ALL the remaining Legions attacking as one unified force. 1) Other fronts must be maintained, so not all Legions can be pulled back. 2) The political reality that sending all the Legions could be seen as an act of fear, rather than a show of force 3) Some divisions amongst the Legions are too strong to make a unified assault viable.

 

The third consideration entails that the Space Wolves and Thousand Sons should be left out of the equation. While the Death Guard and Raven Guard both showed disdain for Magnus and his Legion and even refused to fight alongside them (Raven Guard at least), these issues paled when compared to Russ' strong and vocal contempt. Those two are unlikely to work together, even if ordered to do so. The Night Lords are a potential substitute for the Raven Guard as they fulfill a similar but different tactical role but have quite a reputation. Including them in the task force might be a show of good faith or it might be an unnecessary risk. Not to mention their favored terror tactics are largely unnecessary and ineffective at Istvaan. World Eaters have already turned but they would be in a very similar situation.

 

The reasoning behind the Legions is both immediately military and concerned with the long term peace of the Imperium.

First is to "double up" on all roles in the battle, not just to settle conflicts between the Legions by (hopefully) establishing mutual respect (and tacitly pointing out the knowledge that they to can fall to a task force of Imperium should they get outta line).

 

Blood Angels, first and foremost, are there just to engender peace talks and take overall command. Sanguinius arguably held a solid rapport with the Warmaster and is known to have a reasonably level head. In addition, the Blood Angels position of overall leadership would not ruffle any feathers (No pun intended) amongst the Legions. The point of the task force would be to soothe tensions and ease rivalries, not exacerbate them.

 

The Ultramarines/Word Bearers, Imperial Fist/Iron Warriors rivalries are well known and established at this point. A joint operation between them might help smooth matters over and perhaps engender grudging respect. It won't solve anything overnight, but it is a start. At the worst, they may strive to outbid one another in victories on the battlefield, increasing overall effectiveness. ***Ok, at the worst we the players know they turn on one another in terrible traitor/loyalist conflict, but within the context of all being loyal to the Imperium***

 

The Legions selected all fill specific roles. The Word Bearers and Ultramarines are the anvil as well as the hammer, their sheer numbers and logistical capabilities providing a solid crushing pressure on the Horus led traitors.

 

The Imperial Fists and the Iron Warriors provide siege specialization. The loyalist task force would be attacking an entrenched enemy position, an entrenched Adeptus Astartes held position, so they may be called in to help crack any hard points and secure landing zones.

 

The White Scars and Raven Guard (or Night Lords) are there to be the scalpel, providing fast moving support to disrupt supply lines and communications. Essentially to harry flanks, find and expose weaknesses, and to quickly exploit any advantages opened up by the other Legions actions.

 

By "doubling up" on these roles, it weakens the Sons of Horus and Emperors Children's adeptness in all types of combat and negates the World Eaters assault capabilities. In essence, it would overwhelm the smaller number of specialists or even moderately trained in that particular type of warfare (by Adeptus Astartes standards :) ) each traitor Legion could bring to bear and the combined arms approach limiting the World Eaters terrifying close combat abilities. Assault specialists really shine on the offensive, not necessarily the defensive and if one does not engage on their terms, adds further advantage to the loyalists.

[SanguineSon]

The Imperial Fists and the Iron Warriors provide siege specialization. The loyalist task force would be attacking an entrenched enemy position, an entrenched Adeptus Astartes held position, so they may be called in to help crack any hard points and secure landing zones.

 

You've certainly got a well laid out plan I like it! But who's going to protect Terra with the Fists gone? I guess you could just leave it to the guard. What are your thoughts?