Chaos Lord Shamrockius Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Hi all, I'm having an occurance rarer than hearing "well I like our current dex, I think it's great" and am actually going to be playing a game soon. It's against a friend who plays Dark Eldar and I'm wary. I am familiar enough with what we do do well in the current dex and what the base of CSM tactics are that work but I'm wondering if this needs tweaking much to face DE. I was considering going quite shooty. The high inititive concerns me (Archon WS & I 7; Sucubus WS & I 8) , but then there is the fact that they are brittle (S & T 3). I'm torn between going with a regular build and just going with the only thing i know (shoot till you get in charge range, plenty of transport etc) and letting Zerkers have a go, or do I change tact, dust of some models that i've just painted for show and just plump for shooty. Thoughts? Ideas? I'm stumped. I'm leaning towards getting as much ranged weaponry as I can and sit at the tables edge. Break out for the Iron Warriors armourments I feel... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229828-game-upcoming/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 I've played against the new DE 3 times and they are good. The DE dex (unlike our own) is very well done, there are lots of different kinds of armies he could make: reg shooty DE, very hth wyche army, fast attack heavy flying circus, haemonculi build. Trying to predict what he will take would be like trying to predict what a BL player might take back in C:csm's 3.5. I will tell you that you can not out shoot them, they have lots of ap 2 & 3 weapns and lots of lance weapns and all their splinter weapns are now poison 4+. As for setting the table edge, they have lots of stuff that can move 24+" so they could still be there turn 1. I would go with your reg army and tactics, that is what you're used to playing and prob what you are best at. I never change my army list to try and counter someone elses anyway, but like I say, the DE dex has so much depth, you wouldn't know what to try and counter anyway (unless you knew what models he has/doesn't have I guess. but I wouldn't even bother with that). It's true that they has higher int. but they are also mostly T.3 with no real armor saves, so just play you reg game. Oh yeah, kabalite trueborn will shoot your face off :) ;) good luck, have fun Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229828-game-upcoming/#findComment-2759209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shas'o R'Vre Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 I don't know much on DE, but apparently turtling with Rhino's turn 1 is good, prevents the Turn 1 Assault builds messing you up too badly, whilst shielding your guns from the Shootier builds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229828-game-upcoming/#findComment-2759302 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Lord Shamrockius Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback. My biggest problem is that I'm mainly a (average) painter who enjoys it, has abot 5000pts worth available to pick from but I don't play that often, therefore I don't really have a "regular" list... and I hate the power builds so try and go a little abstract, although this list is a little more bland than I'd normally go for. (I'd normally play russian roulette with a Dread and take something else normally hated in here ala 1ksons, raptors etc as they tend to do ok for me. I know this will one day bite me where I sit but till then, I enjoy playing fast and loose with the crazy and the foolish) Currently, we are negotiating between a 1500pt or 2000pt game, probably leaning towards 1500 and my list looks like this: HQ Daemon Prince MoT, Gift of Chaos, Bolt of Change, Wings Troops 10 x CSM IoN, 2xPlasmagun, champ w/PF & plasma pistol 10 x CSM IoCG, 2xMeltagun, champ w/PW 10 x CSM 1oK, 2xFlamer, champ w/PW All in rhinos with bolters Heavy Support Deflier (regular loadout) Vindicator with Daemonic Posession, Havoc Launcher My basic plan is to do as Shas'o suggests, keeping CSMs going in Rhinos, one covering the Daemon Prince, while thinning the herd with the duo battle cannons. Turn 2, swooping my Daemon Prince behind a vehicle and popping it with BoC or gifting some smarta$$ high inititive HQ with Spawndom while disembarking from rhinos and working out from there. This does leave me with 150pts (approx) remaining, where I'm currently looking at 2 Oblits or a Termicide squad, either of which I'm considering deepstriking in the thick of everything and going for the throat of anything nearby... Thoughts? Comments? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229828-game-upcoming/#findComment-2762885 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Daemon Prince MoT, Gift of Chaos, Bolt of Change, Wings Too expensive for my tastes. You could almost have 2 naked Daemon Princes for the same price. I think GoC is only really useful on an A. Sorcerer and even then I'd rather have warptime. If you really want a Tzeentch DP with 2 powers, go with Warptime/Wind of Chaos. Very expensive but killing 75% of what you hit with the template with no armor save will help thin their ranks. 10 x CSM IoN, 2xPlasmagun, champ w/PF & plasma pistol IoN does absolutely nothing against DE since everything is either poisoned or wounding on 2's anyway. I'd lose the Icon and the Power Fist/Plasma Pistol Champion and replace it with IoCG. The extra shots and range of the Plasma will help knock out their armor as well as put wounds on their MCs if they go that way. Plus it can insta-kill most anything. 10 x CSM IoCG, 2xMeltagun, champ w/PW 10 x CSM 1oK, 2xFlamer, champ w/PW Trim the IoK and swap the PW for Power Fists. Sure you get the extra hit with a PW but its still after the DE assault you and it isn't helpful against their armor, MCs or multi-wound models. Deflier (regular loadout) I would drop the TL Heavy Flamer for an extra DCCW. +1 attack will serve you better overall. I go back and forth on keeping the RAC but against DE its strong enough to tear apart their armor. Vindicator with Daemonic Posession, Havoc Launcher Really, this is overkill against everything they have and the AV13 front armor won't help with dark lances. Another Defiler or maybe a combi-Predator would serve you better. This does leave me with 150pts (approx) remaining, where I'm currently looking at 2 Oblits or a Termicide squad, either of which I'm considering deepstriking in the thick of everything and going for the throat of anything nearby... I would leave the Oblits at home, dark lances were made for slaughtering them. Termicide squads would be helpful though. Combi-Plasma would be the best overall choice I think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229828-game-upcoming/#findComment-2762941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 This now might get moved to army list forum, but no big. - Tz DP with 2 pwrs in really too expensive, esp in a 1500 pt game. BoC really is not a useful pwr and not nearly worth the pts. No IoN on csm squad, too expensive for what it does. Esp vs DE, all splinter weapns 4+ poison and the Sybarite's agonizer always wounds on 4+, DE warriors already only wound on a 5+ in hth anyway, they are not the problem. So paying 40pts to raise T. to 5 really not worth it. No plaz pistol, he's going to shoot a 5+ armor guy. - Champs get PF's, PW's pretty useless against DE cept for Incubi (3+ armor) b/c they all armor 5+ and they all go b4 your PW guy any way. Might as well give him ability to insta-squish characters and hurt talos. - No IoK, want another attack, take brzrkrs. - defiler or vindi not good vs DE, like I said T. 3 no armor you really don't need str. 8-10 ap 1 weapns to kill them, for hvy sup[port use dakka preds and HB and/or AC havocs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229828-game-upcoming/#findComment-2762991 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 I wouldn't say the defiler's bad vs DE. It's not the greatest option but it's better than alot of our others: las pred, vindicators, oblits and LR's are all sub-par choices against the DE. AC havocs and a dakka pred would certainly be the best choices but if you want to take one I'd say go ahead. They're AV 12 so lances are normal against them. I played a game last night and my opponent was so scared of the defiler he spent almost the entire game focusing his ranged on it until the last turn he finally killed it. That though allowed almost all my rhinos to make it all the way across the board. Basically vs dark eldar always expect to go last in CC, try not to take high toughness models (or don't buy them the toughness upgrade), bring lots of autocannons or even heavy bolters. Flamers aren't really a bad option either against DE. One heavy flamer in the mid of a wych squad works wonders ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229828-game-upcoming/#findComment-2763202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 DP is too expensive and the powers you chose aren't useful. If you want a 2 power prince give it warptime and wind of Chaos. IoK and IoN are a waste of points here. Powerfists are always better than PW. It lets you do more damage since you will probably have lower init anyway. Use weapons with more shots instead of higher S because they're mostly T3 anyway so dakka preds can shred DE. Termicide could be a little useful Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229828-game-upcoming/#findComment-2763378 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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