XaClocKWorKoX Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 What is the deal that Crowe is not an IC but yet the cheaper knock off brotherhood champion (bhc?) is an IC it would only make sense right I was playing a purifiers list and it just didn't make sense Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229839-crowe-to-be-faqd/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zagman Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Please read the other hundred threads on the topic. No, he not an IC. Yes, it was intentional. Yes, he is still worth it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229839-crowe-to-be-faqd/#findComment-2759276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
XaClocKWorKoX Posted May 15, 2011 Author Share Posted May 15, 2011 Sorry it's hard to search I'm doing this from my phone :-) mobile version of b&c plz lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229839-crowe-to-be-faqd/#findComment-2759286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Knight Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Crowe is meant to not be an IC as with a daemonic blade in his hands I doubt any GK would really want to be that close to him in a fight :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229839-crowe-to-be-faqd/#findComment-2759376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prathios Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Please read the other hundred threads on the topic. No, he not an IC. Yes, it was intentional. Yes, he is still worth it. Final sentence is hotly contested, I would argue that he is not worth his points at all. Any unit that can't pull his weight in combat is not a unit that I'll be using, troops choices or not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229839-crowe-to-be-faqd/#findComment-2759482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Final sentence is hotly contested, I would argue that he is not worth his points at all. Any unit that can't pull his weight in combat is not a unit that I'll be using, troops choices or not. Crowe is actually pretty good in combat against certain units. Throw him in assault with an Ork Boyz mob and he has a good chance to wipe the entire squad. Cleaning Flame first kills about halve the mob, then high WS, and Blade Shield for a reroll-able 2+/4++ save means he has a good chance of surviving the retaliation attacks. If he doesn't get croacked, the No Retreat wounds take care of the most of the remaining Boys. I have yet to see other HQ do that singlehandledly. :) Crowe's biggest problem is getting him in combat, as he basically has to hijack a dedicated transport, or take an expensive Stormraven or Landraider if you want to use him for anything but counter-assault. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229839-crowe-to-be-faqd/#findComment-2759496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt. Blood Donator Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Also, if you think that crowe is bad, you should get a load of D.C Tycho. Bastard doesn't do anything for your army, has toughness 4 and 4 power weapon attacks. Yeah, totally worth it for 175 of non-IC goodness. He would probably beat Crow though. And the Crowe would probably take him with him. Like the Reckoner. Eeer, anyway. I'm sure it was intentional. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229839-crowe-to-be-faqd/#findComment-2759637 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 I think it is poor design to make these guys not ICs. Might make sense for the Sanguinor, but Mephiston (who would need to be toned down if made an IC) DC Tycho and Crowe should be ICs. It wouldn't be that hard to make them balanced as ICs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229839-crowe-to-be-faqd/#findComment-2759640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 I think it is poor design to make these guys not ICs. Might make sense for the Sanguinor, but Mephiston (who would need to be toned down if made an IC) DC Tycho and Crowe should be ICs. It wouldn't be that hard to make them balanced as ICs. Agreed. All of these heroes should be leading men in battle, not hanging out "over there". V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229839-crowe-to-be-faqd/#findComment-2759667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormshrug Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 I think it is poor design to make these guys not ICs. Might make sense for the Sanguinor, but Mephiston (who would need to be toned down if made an IC) DC Tycho and Crowe should be ICs. It wouldn't be that hard to make them balanced as ICs. Agreed. All of these heroes should be leading men in battle, not hanging out "over there". V Eh, I don't think it's a bad idea to mess around with heroes who have to stand alone as a design mechanic. Of course, I don't think it should be super-common, either, and they should probably have some kind of mobility bonus (at least a functional Jump Pack, like the Sanguinor or Mephiston) to help offset the fact that they will be huge fire targets. Crowe and DC Tycho just happen to be kind of underwhelming as such stand-alone heroes. -Stormshrug Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229839-crowe-to-be-faqd/#findComment-2759680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 I think it is poor design to make these guys not ICs. Might make sense for the Sanguinor, but Mephiston (who would need to be toned down if made an IC) DC Tycho and Crowe should be ICs. It wouldn't be that hard to make them balanced as ICs. This is true. But it would also mean you'd have to tone down Mephiston A LOT. If Mephy as he currently is could be attached to units, he'd break the game, no exaggeration. You can't eat your cake and have it, too. Also, I do think it's a little too literal to equate the inability of an HQ model to join units with an inability to actually lead an army. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229839-crowe-to-be-faqd/#findComment-2759684 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Also, if you think that crowe is bad, you should get a load of D.C Tycho. Bastard doesn't do anything for your army, has toughness 4 and 4 power weapon attacks. Yeah, totally worth it for 175 of non-IC goodness. He would probably beat Crow though. And the Crowe would probably take him with him. Like the Reckoner. Eeer, anyway. I'm sure it was intentional. My playign group has a general consensus that dc tycho is the worst HQ in the game. In many games he is essentially an uncontrolable free kill point. I think crowe can be used well unlike tycho, I also think that a grand master is just a better buy than crowe as you still want some strike knights in a puirifier army to stop deepstriking units and the GM will on average make 20 purifiers scoring when you need them. Regards, Crynn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229839-crowe-to-be-faqd/#findComment-2759696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 My playign group has a general consensus that dc tycho is the worst HQ in the game. In many games he is essentially an uncontrolable free kill point. Heh Psycho Tycho is Up their but in NO way knocks Ethereals off the Worst HQ/idea in the game by a long shot. I also Don't see why Meph would have to be toned down A LOT as Number6 said this codex got someone with S5T5 with a 2+ 3++ saves and helps your army other than being a beat stick but thats another matter all together. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229839-crowe-to-be-faqd/#findComment-2759761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 My playign group has a general consensus that dc tycho is the worst HQ in the game. In many games he is essentially an uncontrolable free kill point. Heh Psycho Tycho is Up their but in NO way knocks Ethereals off the Worst HQ/idea in the game by a long shot. I also Don't see why Meph would have to be toned down A LOT as Number6 said this codex got someone with S5T5 with a 2+ 3++ saves and helps your army other than being a beat stick but thats another matter all together. we look at it this way. An etherial is crap but cheap gives some bonus and a negative if killed however can hitch a transport for protection. DC tycho you cannot control he will run at the enemy and cop one lascannon and die every game unless you pay for a transport for another unit then do not give it to him. so to give tycho the safety of a ride he costs a minimum due the rhino cost of 225pts. Bar that he is just a free kill point with no army benefits that will rarely kill anything before dying. On to Meph I don't think he would ned to be toned down to much as being in a squad does little for him as you should rarely get to shoot him anyway and he would still be targetable in combat. He would loose fleet in squads and rarely needs them. The onyl reason i would think he'd need any points adjusting is because when he casts unleash rage it would now benefit a whole squad not just himself which would be amazing. Regards, Crynn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229839-crowe-to-be-faqd/#findComment-2759797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zagman Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Please read the other hundred threads on the topic. No, he not an IC. Yes, it was intentional. Yes, he is still worth it. Final sentence is hotly contested, I would argue that he is not worth his points at all. Any unit that can't pull his weight in combat is not a unit that I'll be using, troops choices or not. He is actually pretty amazing in combat against many enemies. Worst case scenario, he usually takes whatever kills him with him. Point him at your opponents big nasty and have at it. If he were to be an IC, he would need his points cost increased, probably in the order of 25-50pts. He is also running around with a daemonblade... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229839-crowe-to-be-faqd/#findComment-2759821 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Please read the other hundred threads on the topic. No, he not an IC. Yes, it was intentional. Yes, he is still worth it. Final sentence is hotly contested, I would argue that he is not worth his points at all. Any unit that can't pull his weight in combat is not a unit that I'll be using, troops choices or not. He is actually pretty amazing in combat against many enemies. Worst case scenario, he usually takes whatever kills him with him. Point him at your opponents big nasty and have at it. If he were to be an IC, he would need his points cost increased, probably in the order of 25-50pts. He is also running around with a daemonblade... What relevance does him running around with a deamon blade have? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229839-crowe-to-be-faqd/#findComment-2759830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prathios Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Please read the other hundred threads on the topic. No, he not an IC. Yes, it was intentional. Yes, he is still worth it. Final sentence is hotly contested, I would argue that he is not worth his points at all. Any unit that can't pull his weight in combat is not a unit that I'll be using, troops choices or not. He is actually pretty amazing in combat against many enemies. Worst case scenario, he usually takes whatever kills him with him. Point him at your opponents big nasty and have at it. If he were to be an IC, he would need his points cost increased, probably in the order of 25-50pts. He is also running around with a daemonblade... What relevance does him running around with a deamon blade have? Zagman was actually trying to help the naysayers... lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229839-crowe-to-be-faqd/#findComment-2759987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slyfox1990 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 I have a Crowe in my 1k list but if he can't join a squad then I really don't see the point? I'm not buying him a transport and he's not foot slogging. Seems I may as well just shell out for an inquisitor for a cheap alternative and give myself more bodies to play with? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229839-crowe-to-be-faqd/#findComment-2760024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelis Mortis Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Please read the other hundred threads on the topic. No, he not an IC. Yes, it was intentional. Yes, he is still worth it. Final sentence is hotly contested, I would argue that he is not worth his points at all. Any unit that can't pull his weight in combat is not a unit that I'll be using, troops choices or not. Have you ever used him? Have you at least read his rules? I find it very hard to believe you did, as he is very tough in combat. As long as you get him into assault, he is almost guaranteed to kill at least his points worth or more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229839-crowe-to-be-faqd/#findComment-2760030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 I would never use him. Too much of a liability in my opinion. G :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229839-crowe-to-be-faqd/#findComment-2760053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 He is also running around with a daemonblade... Now if he got to choose two abilities form the list of 'Daemonweapon' abilities, he might be worth using. Have you ever used him? Have you at least read his rules? I find it very hard to believe you did, as he is very tough in combat. As long as you get him into assault, he is almost guaranteed to kill at least his points worth or more. Yes and Yes. He's rubbish. :devil: Totally annecdotal of course! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229839-crowe-to-be-faqd/#findComment-2760089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prathios Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Please read the other hundred threads on the topic. No, he not an IC. Yes, it was intentional. Yes, he is still worth it. Final sentence is hotly contested, I would argue that he is not worth his points at all. Any unit that can't pull his weight in combat is not a unit that I'll be using, troops choices or not. Have you ever used him? Have you at least read his rules? I find it very hard to believe you did, as he is very tough in combat. As long as you get him into assault, he is almost guaranteed to kill at least his points worth or more. He's a T4 model that can't join a squad. I didn't know there was anything to question. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229839-crowe-to-be-faqd/#findComment-2760135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelis Mortis Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 He is also running around with a daemonblade... Now if he got to choose two abilities form the list of 'Daemonweapon' abilities, he might be worth using. Why? This is how he is now. 1)He rends on a 4+, meaning auto wound and auto armor pierce. 2)He hits about 90% of the models in the game on a 3+ 3)As his rending is a 4+, that means the at least 50% of his hits will rend. 4)Then theres the perfect warrior stances. 5)Initiative 6 6)Re-roll all to hits vs. Daemons. 7)WS4< will only hit him on 5+, most everything else will hit him on 4+. It says it behaves as a CCW, but in practice his attacks are anything but normal attacks Have you ever used him? Have you at least read his rules? I find it very hard to believe you did, as he is very tough in combat. As long as you get him into assault, he is almost guaranteed to kill at least his points worth or more. Yes and Yes. He's rubbish. :P Totally annecdotal of course! Totally disagree. As I stated earlier, get him into assault, and he is way worth his points. With all the ways you have to deliver him, it shouldn't be that hard. Summoning with a Librarian is an idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229839-crowe-to-be-faqd/#findComment-2760239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prathios Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 He is also running around with a daemonblade... Now if he got to choose two abilities form the list of 'Daemonweapon' abilities, he might be worth using. Why? This is how he is now. 1)He rends on a 4+, meaning auto wound and auto armor pierce. 2)He hits about 90% of the models in the game on a 3+ 3)As his rending is a 4+, that means the at least 50% of his hits will rend. 4)Then theres the perfect warrior stances. 5)Initiative 6 6)Re-roll all to hits vs. Daemons. 7)WS4< will only hit him on 5+, most everything else will hit him on 4+. It says it behaves as a CCW, but in practice his attacks are anything but normal attacks Have you ever used him? Have you at least read his rules? I find it very hard to believe you did, as he is very tough in combat. As long as you get him into assault, he is almost guaranteed to kill at least his points worth or more. Yes and Yes. He's rubbish. :P Totally annecdotal of course! Totally disagree. As I stated earlier, get him into assault, and he is way worth his points. With all the ways you have to deliver him, it shouldn't be that hard. Summoning with a Librarian is an idea. Or, for 50 points less, you can take a useful unit called a Brotherhood Champion. You get all the wonderful cc killy power of Crowe (which I think you overstate) but you can actually put him into a squad which keeps you from having to come up with expensive ways of making crowe get into cc. I mean seriously, the fact that you have to suggest teleporting crowe with a libby just to get him into cc means you're spending a useful psychic power from a libby just to make a terribad unit moderately useful. He really isn't good. I mean, just take a champion, put him in a squad and call it a day. Save yourself 50 points, take a unit that doesn't require shennanigans to get back his points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229839-crowe-to-be-faqd/#findComment-2760247 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slyfox1990 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 I have to say that as soon as you factor in the issue of having to get him into combat on foot or by spending excess points he goes out of the window of my interest. I bought the model for a list I was doing before I realised this ruling. No point him being good at cc when it's so hard to get him there. I would genuinely rather take a 50-60 point inquisitor that can sit in my squads than use him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229839-crowe-to-be-faqd/#findComment-2760251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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