Tech-Priest Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Looking for opinions on the best method for putting a power fist in a pack of grey hunters... the squad upgrade fist and getting the 2 meltas with a 10 man GH pack Or Taking a wolf guard for each squad with power fist and combi-melta Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229873-best-way-to-put-a-fist-in-a-gh-pack/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacton Qruze Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 The Wolf Guard. You pay 5 fewer points for the fist, and it has an extra attack that way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229873-best-way-to-put-a-fist-in-a-gh-pack/#findComment-2759690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisWolf Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 And plus 1 leadership for the wolf guard which translates to the unit! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229873-best-way-to-put-a-fist-in-a-gh-pack/#findComment-2759701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassill Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 I am slowly coming around myself on the Wolf Guard attached to the unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229873-best-way-to-put-a-fist-in-a-gh-pack/#findComment-2759729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Crazywolf Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 I agree with the wolf guard. Too many pros. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229873-best-way-to-put-a-fist-in-a-gh-pack/#findComment-2759745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerwulf Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 put a wolf guard in there with combi-weapon/powerfist AND give one grey hunter a powerfist. I recently switched to this load-out and I haven't regretted it since. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229873-best-way-to-put-a-fist-in-a-gh-pack/#findComment-2759781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric the Green Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 I like to rock the wolfguard with fist, I then give a hunter a power weapon, and another one with mark of the wulfen. My squads are expensive, but they're nasty in assault. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229873-best-way-to-put-a-fist-in-a-gh-pack/#findComment-2759843 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 I like to rock the wolfguard with fist, I then give a hunter a power weapon, and another one with mark of the wulfen. My squads are expensive, but they're nasty in assault. i run mine pretty much the same way. wolf guard with pf and combi plasma 1 power weapon 1 MotW 1 Wolf standard 5 packs with 1 plasma, 4 packs with 1 melta all in a Rhino or Drop Pod. costs a little points but so freakin worth it when it comes time to fight. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229873-best-way-to-put-a-fist-in-a-gh-pack/#findComment-2759847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
narf Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 if your going rhino or razorback mounted a WG with combi melta and power fist is cheaper than a GH with PF, add in the wulfen and a special weapon and your home free, i dont see the point myself in adding a power weapon. If your going drop pod the wolf guard can take TDA, a chainfist and either combi melta or plasma, and then 8 GH with a motw and again another special weapon, most probably a melta gun, as your guys will be in the thick of it from the start. The option of taking a free 2nd weapon is nice, but not always tactically sound, and i would personally trade that option for the WG with a combi weapon, as really your wolves arent going to get more than 1 round of shooting before being in combat. If your going foot mounted then go for it, though you will probably loose the 2nd special weapon to shooting before reaching your opponent, so good thing its free.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229873-best-way-to-put-a-fist-in-a-gh-pack/#findComment-2759962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 I never do WG in my GH packs, People keep pointing out the WG being cheaper, however that is based on a model to model comparison isn't it? Considering that you have to buy WG at a minimum of 3, model to model a WG is not cheaper until you have at least 3 packs of GH where as your minimum WG pack matches your GH packs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229873-best-way-to-put-a-fist-in-a-gh-pack/#findComment-2760008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Wolf guard all the way for me, an extra attack for less point, what's not to like? anyway SW biggest advantage is counter attack and that extra leadership is massive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229873-best-way-to-put-a-fist-in-a-gh-pack/#findComment-2760066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjaco Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 From what I can tell, and please correct me on this if I am wrong, but Wolfguard as in the SQUADLEADERS/SERGEANTS role seems to be a more useful task for them rather than have them squad up and go around by their lonesomes. But is this with or without Termie armor is my next question? For the Long Fangs I agree, it is hard to bet the Cyclone Missile Launcher it can add. But for GH and BC I dont get the same feeling. Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229873-best-way-to-put-a-fist-in-a-gh-pack/#findComment-2760096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirnir Ragefang Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 With Termie armour they form quite useful squads, which you can kit out as you like. The bunch of Combiweapons and CCpunch they can bring is quite welcome in my lists. I don't attach a Cyclone launcher to my Long Fangs yet, because i don't have model and often give my Terminator Squad the heavy flamer. I have never used them in Power armoured Squads, but every of my PA Packs apart from Long Fangs has a Pack leader with Combiweapon and either a Wolf Claw or a Power fist. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229873-best-way-to-put-a-fist-in-a-gh-pack/#findComment-2760121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech-Priest Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 Ok correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the GH upgrade benefit from ubergrit (bolter, pistol and upgraded powerfist) granting +1 attack in close combat while the WG doesn't have ubergrit (just a power fist and combi-weapon) resulting in the same number of attacks? Also combi-melta is one shot per game vs. the freebie melta which has multiple shots... So really aren't you just getting +1 Ld while loosing the ability to pop of more melta shots? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229873-best-way-to-put-a-fist-in-a-gh-pack/#findComment-2760158 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoll Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 honestly I've been slogging along on foot and 2 special weapons has served me well, but now that I think about it I can easily give my squads a WG with a power fist in addition to the extra special weapon Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229873-best-way-to-put-a-fist-in-a-gh-pack/#findComment-2760163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacton Qruze Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Ok correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the GH upgrade benefit from ubergrit (bolter, pistol and upgraded powerfist) granting +1 attack in close combat while the WG doesn't have ubergrit (just a power fist and combi-weapon) resulting in the same number of attacks? Also combi-melta is one shot per game vs. the freebie melta which has multiple shots... So really aren't you just getting +1 Ld while loosing the ability to pop of more melta shots? You can no longer gain +1 attack with the fist, unless your other weapon is also a fist. I think most people end up only using their GH squads for one round of shooting, so only having the combi for one round doesn't really impact them. That's been my experience, anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229873-best-way-to-put-a-fist-in-a-gh-pack/#findComment-2760174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Ok correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the GH upgrade benefit from ubergrit (bolter, pistol and upgraded powerfist) granting +1 attack in close combat while the WG doesn't have ubergrit (just a power fist and combi-weapon) resulting in the same number of attacks? Also combi-melta is one shot per game vs. the freebie melta which has multiple shots... So really aren't you just getting +1 Ld while loosing the ability to pop of more melta shots? grey hunters are just as much an assault unit as they are a shooting unit. Having a greater chance to have 3 powerfist attacks as apposed to having a much lesser chance of having 2 powerfist attacks (due to lower ld) is better them having a extra melta shots. Look at it this way, meltaguns are for popping vehicles really, and you generally only ever get one good shot, were your within 6'' of a vehicle so 2x melta shots are really to double your chance of getting a hit. The chances of getting a grey hunter pack within 6'' of a vehicle twice in one game are pretty rare so taking a combimelta or melta gun is pretty irrelevant, were as getting dread locked or monster locked or your melta shot not doing any damage and you needing to smash open the vehicle with a fist or needing your counter charge roll or needing to assassinate a character ect is much more likely. Its not a case that of is a melta better then a combi melta as the fact is that is your probably only going to need 2 melta shots once per game were as your powerifst and added ld is going to make a big difference and needed every single round of assault. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229873-best-way-to-put-a-fist-in-a-gh-pack/#findComment-2760182 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech-Priest Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 Hmm... Ok then WG it is thanks for the help Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229873-best-way-to-put-a-fist-in-a-gh-pack/#findComment-2760281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Where the heck are people getting the one round of shooting idea? My GH packs spend far more then one round of shooting, both tanks and infantry. The thought that people are limiting their GH to one round of shooting, in what appears to be just acceptance of poor tactics, seems like a general waste of GH in general. Now at the Razorspam level, this concept is true because after one round of shooting against a small GH pack followed by assault, you really are just worthless. That small GH unit does only get one round of shooting because they are swamped and/or overrun once they get off that first round of shooting. That does not happen against full 10man GH packs. They can drop or break a unit with their first round of shooting and if assaulting or assaulted, they are going to survive for further rounds of shooting which a combi-weapon is now useless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229873-best-way-to-put-a-fist-in-a-gh-pack/#findComment-2760426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Where the heck are people getting the one round of shooting idea? My GH packs spend far more then one round of shooting, both tanks and infantry. The thought that people are limiting their GH to one round of shooting, in what appears to be just acceptance of poor tactics, seems like a general waste of GH in general. Now at the Razorspam level, this concept is true because after one round of shooting against a small GH pack followed by assault, you really are just worthless. That small GH unit does only get one round of shooting because they are swamped and/or overrun once they get off that first round of shooting. That does not happen against full 10man GH packs. They can drop or break a unit with their first round of shooting and if assaulting or assaulted, they are going to survive for further rounds of shooting which a combi-weapon is now useless. You generally only get 1 round of shooting at vehicles, were your within 6'' per pack per game, thats what people mean. Not that your only shooting 1 turn overall, including bolters. An average game last's maybe 5- 6 turns. The first 2 your moving into position and the last 1 or 2 your eyeing up objectives, that dosnt leave you alot of turns to get into and fire on a vehicle with a relatively close range weapon, such as a melta gun. people generally dont drive a vehicle near a unit packing melta guns making getting more then 1 good shot a game with them very rare. long fangs, preds land speeders, drop pod dreds even swift claw attack bikes are far more effective for blowing up vehicles then a grey hunter pack with a melta gun or 2, so really your only taking melta's on the off chance. Some armys like nids or green tide orks your melta guns are not going to get used on any vehicles. All the none marine army's pretty much have open top vehicles so your likely to get charged if you get to close.The long and short of it is the only real army taking 2 melta guns over a wolf guard with a fist is going to be against razorback or land raider spam lists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229873-best-way-to-put-a-fist-in-a-gh-pack/#findComment-2760545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 put a wolf guard in there with combi-weapon/powerfist AND give one grey hunter a powerfist. I recently switched to this load-out and I haven't regretted it since. Usually this for me, depending on how I feel the day of the game. What's better than 3 Power Fist attacks on the charge/counterattack? 5 Power Fist attacks! However, this is really only worth the investment for units that I have designated as Assault Units (i.e. The ones that I plan on getting in to close combat to achieve my goals. For Hunters that are more likely to sit on an Objective, I can invest in double Plasmaguns, and not rock 2 Fists in the unit. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229873-best-way-to-put-a-fist-in-a-gh-pack/#findComment-2760838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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