spjaco Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 Plastic Logan and Ragnar huh? Hokay, just hope it isnt to long a wait. As far as going to my local GW store, Uh, I am in Lawton OK, and the nearest one is in Dallas. What with gas being four bucks a gallon and having three kids to feed; I think you can figure out just how often that trip gets made. LOL Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229898-my-only-arguement-with-the-spacewolves-is/page/2/#findComment-2761688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 3 times a day? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229898-my-only-arguement-with-the-spacewolves-is/page/2/#findComment-2761701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Ga,e balance is the only reason. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229898-my-only-arguement-with-the-spacewolves-is/page/2/#findComment-2761713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 I can't really take this thread seriously. Are you honestly complaining about Space Wolves needing more buffs? The book is pretty much flawless and yes, I do play Wolves. They have counter-attack to show for their fangs, WS5 would be way over the top. They're not Khorne Berserkers, as much as you want them to be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229898-my-only-arguement-with-the-spacewolves-is/page/2/#findComment-2763831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donutzot Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 I can't really take this thread seriously. Are you honestly complaining about Space Wolves needing more buffs? The book is pretty much flawless and yes, I do play Wolves. They have counter-attack to show for their fangs, WS5 would be way over the top. They're not Khorne Berserkers, as much as you want them to be. pffff we are supposed to hit more then the damn world breakers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229898-my-only-arguement-with-the-spacewolves-is/page/2/#findComment-2764067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogi Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 My only argument is, why do the space wolves have no disadvantages? How can you want more? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229898-my-only-arguement-with-the-spacewolves-is/page/2/#findComment-2765334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 I still think the blood claws ws3 is just wrong Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229898-my-only-arguement-with-the-spacewolves-is/page/2/#findComment-2765403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarapham Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 I still think the blood claws ws3 is just wrong I think it fits perfectly. In their youthful vigour and hunt for glory they pretty much swing their weapons alot more instead of aiming/parrying with them. So it makes perfect sense for them to attack more but not quite as skillful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229898-my-only-arguement-with-the-spacewolves-is/page/2/#findComment-2765415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 My only arguement with the Spacewolves stats is that their Weapon Skill is the same as any other vanilla marine chapter. I have a few ideas for other chapters as well. I have to admit that against some armies it seems that the much vaunted Space Marines have gotten severely Nerfed over the years. Point 1: The Spacewolves homeworld is Fenris, on that planet they fight with primitive/medieval type weapons almost to the exclusion of any other. So they should have a slightly higher WS for their base. Just one point is all I am suggesting. Point 2: Other SM's could have this option as well, the Blood Angels and Black Templars focus so much on WS that they could benefit this as well so it wouldnt be just show the love for the Wolves type hype. Point 3: From the time a SW is a Blood Claw he is taught to close with his opponent rapidly and dispatch him with his close in weapon. This would keep that in line with the way the Fluff says they are trained. Point 4: For that matter give some love to other Chapters such as the Ultra's by letting their love for the codex give them a benefit of preventing them from being out-flanked to their rear, and forcing any unit that makes a succesful flank to their left or right be prevented by being closer than 10 inches, 12 at most. One last idea 5: If so many characters use Shields/Storm Shields, why not have a Shield Attack? After all the shield historically was used not just for protection but for offense as well. For that matter some chapters could actually benefit from a kind of Shielf Wall Attack/Defense with bonus' adding 1 pt for every five models involved. Just an idea. This would seem to work with the Iron Snakes fluff as well. The Wolves seem to be going this way with Arjac, so give him the extra attack for the shield is all I am saying, heck make it a power weapon. Point 1: Space Marine Veterans dont have WS 5. People who have been training for easily a century 18 hours a day have a hard time getting WS 5 or 6. Point 2: WS 4 is exceptional. Most humans have a 2(ish). Fenrisians probly have a 3 once theyre blooded veterans... but still. Point 3: Bloodclaws are taught to close, and their intensity is shown by their increased attacks. Their skill is shown in retaining WS 3 despite the raging hormones, completely redone bodies, and the haze of new gene-seed. Point 4: Ultras can be as they please.... I think theyre fine personally. Point 5: A 3++ is enough of a bonus. They used to give an extra attack for shields- they also used to only work in CC. pffff we are supposed to hit more then the damn world breakers Firstly- its World Eaters. Secondly- why? Why should a 90 year old Grey Hunter be a better warrior than a 9,000 year old close combat veteran of the Great Crusade and Horus Heresy who may have contributed to several black crusades and is wholly devoted to the art of death? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229898-my-only-arguement-with-the-spacewolves-is/page/2/#findComment-2765424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 I dont like that runepriests dont get animal companions like fenris wolves and thunderwolves. They are the psychic characters they should get these. In mythic and fantasy backgrounds these are the type of characters to get animal companions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229898-my-only-arguement-with-the-spacewolves-is/page/2/#findComment-2765759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 I know this is the reason i dont more buffs i just want things to match the background Ga,e balance is the only reason. having said that it would probably mean one space wolf for every hundred every guardsman and eldar on the table to manage this Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229898-my-only-arguement-with-the-spacewolves-is/page/2/#findComment-2765762 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 I dont like that runepriests dont get animal companions like fenris wolves and thunderwolves. They are the psychic characters they should get these. In mythic and fantasy backgrounds these are the type of characters to get animal companions. They do- choosers of the Slain for the whole Odin archetype. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229898-my-only-arguement-with-the-spacewolves-is/page/2/#findComment-2766402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donutzot Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 I dont like that runepriests dont get animal companions like fenris wolves and thunderwolves. They are the psychic characters they should get these. In mythic and fantasy backgrounds these are the type of characters to get animal companions. They do- choosers of the Slain for the whole Odin archetype. yep that is correct the raven"like" creature is really a animal companion based upon the god Odin Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229898-my-only-arguement-with-the-spacewolves-is/page/2/#findComment-2766654 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Payton Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Point: The Spacewolves homeworld is Fenris, on that planet they fight with primitive/medieval type weapons almost to the exclusion of any other. So they should have a slightly higher WS for their base. Just one point is all I am suggesting. The Ultramarines' homeworld is Macragge. On that planet they are raised in barracks from their early years, training constantly and learning battle doctrine with the experience of ten millenia behind it. The Traitor Legions fight eternal war within some of the most hostile environments in the galaxy (Fenris excepted, obviously :D ) with the gifts of the most powerful entities in the universe. Some have fought for ten millenia, since the Great Crusade, the greatest military campaign in human history. If the Space Wolves deserve WS5, I reckon these two do as well. The fact is that many other Space Marine chapters, both Codex and non-Codex, Imperial and Traitor, have equally harsh upbringings and comparable martial traditions. Point: Other SM's could have this option as well, the Blood Angels and Black Templars focus so much on WS that they could benefit this as well so it wouldnt be just show the love for the Wolves type hype. What about Chaos Space Marines? The Blood Angels, Space Wolves and Black Templars are not superior warriors in every single way to the other first founding legions, so what do these guys get? Point: From the time a SW is a Blood Claw he is taught to close with his opponent rapidly and dispatch him with his close in weapon. This would keep that in line with the way the Fluff says they are trained. A Space Wolf Blood Claw does not have experience equivalent to an Ultramarines Tactical Marine (for example). Why should he have the same weapon skill? By the same token, Grey Hunters are not as experienced as Veterans, so why should they have a higher WS than they do? The Space Wolves are awesome, but they are not so good as to have their rank-and-file troopers be as good as Codex Captains in close combat. Point: For that matter give some love to other Chapters such as the Ultra's by letting their love for the codex give them a benefit of preventing them from being out-flanked to their rear, and forcing any unit that makes a succesful flank to their left or right be prevented by being closer than 10 inches, 12 at most. But that again puts a silly distinction in. The Blood Angels use the Codex Astartes too, can they just not read very well or something? Or was Calgar just being nice when he let Dante have overall command on Armageddon? If the Codex conveys a tactical benefit, it implies that the Wolves are just being thick when they do not use it. After all, this rule you propose means that Codex chapters are never outflanked in the rear or close to them. The Wolves and Templars are. That would seem to imply that they are marked worse at strategy than Codex Chapters, which makes their decision not to use the Codex reflect incredibly badly on them. One last idea: If so many characters use Shields/Storm Shields, why not have a Shield Attack? After all the shield historically was used not just for protection but for offense as well. For that matter some chapters could actually benefit from a kind of Shielf Wall Attack/Defense with bonus' adding 1 pt for every five models involved. Just an idea. This would seem to work with the Iron Snakes fluff as well. The Wolves seem to be going this way with Arjac, so give him the extra attack for the shield is all I am saying, heck make it a power weapon. Hugely imbalanced. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229898-my-only-arguement-with-the-spacewolves-is/page/2/#findComment-2766728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 I dont like that runepriests dont get animal companions like fenris wolves and thunderwolves. They are the psychic characters they should get these. In mythic and fantasy backgrounds these are the type of characters to get animal companions. They do- choosers of the Slain for the whole Odin archetype. Why does this exclude them from wolf companions Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229898-my-only-arguement-with-the-spacewolves-is/page/2/#findComment-2767164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 I dont like that runepriests dont get animal companions like fenris wolves and thunderwolves. They are the psychic characters they should get these. In mythic and fantasy backgrounds these are the type of characters to get animal companions. They do- choosers of the Slain for the whole Odin archetype. Why does this exclude them from wolf companions Why do they no longer get stormshields? Because someone must have felt that it didnt fit the old wizard archetype very well. I can see the same being seen of lunging forward to rip the throat out of a leaping wolf... not that pelts got included anyways. I imagine mainly because its to combat oriented, and theyve made a marked attempt to destroy the CC prowess of support HQs as hard as they can. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229898-my-only-arguement-with-the-spacewolves-is/page/2/#findComment-2767197 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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