Scouts or Tac Squads

[Purdy81]

So at the min I have just 2 10 man tactical squads, and 1 5 man scout squad with pistols and cc weapons.

 

I find the scouts with the bolt pistols and cc weapons a bit useless really, so Im retiring them. However I dont know if I should bulk up with another 10 man tac squad or go for a 10 man scout squad but maybe with sniper rifles and cammo cloaks? The points cost would work out the same.

 

I looking for opinions on the scout load outs really cause I have not used them much. But they would def only be used to hold objectives and provide a fire base, i like the idea of wounding anything on a 4+ but they have a lower BS than the tacs....

 

Any advice would be great!

[DarkGuard]

For 1000pts to 1750pts you've definitely got enough bodies on the table for scoring. Do you play your Tacticals in Rhinos? I hope you do because two 10 man squads in a Rhino, in an army full of other things to shoot at are insanely hard to shift.

 

If you want the extra bit of security for scoring for, then at 1500pts-2000pts a small unit of Scouts works perfectly. But not in your config. You want a 5 man sniper squad with camo cloaks, perhaps a heavy bolter if you have the points and want them to contribute something. Combat Scouts need to be in 5 man squads, sniper Scouts want small units. With the sniper unit you don't want them to kill anything, that'll get them noticed. You're spending 90pts for a unit that can sit on an objective in cover (or just in cover) and go to ground when shot at, giving a 2+ cover. Regardless of whether they're on an objective, your opponent will give up shooting them about the same time as your other units get into the game and become a threat, as the Scouts won't do much damage anyway.

 

As for combat Scouts, you certainly need 10 men for them, so your combat ability won't go down after a couple of casualties, number of attacks, number of wounds etc. Or a LSS, for getting them in quickly.

[Purdy81]

Ive been playing 1750pts and upwards, and only just started playing objective based games instead of just kill everything that you can!

 

I do have Rhinos for the tac squads and deploy in them to rush the objectives.

 

But basically the games Im playing are getting bigger, last game my mate said he was bringing his necrons so I tooled up with 15 assault terminators a 10 man assault squad, the 2 tacs and a 5 man scout, plus some LS support, planning on going for the phase out but he turned up with Deamons and about 40 scoring units, I held my own only just losing but its made me think about the troop choices im taking and how many units I should take.

 

Im really not thinking about scouts assaulting, so no LSS for me, just want to know if the scouts are worth it or should I just get some more tacticals?

So im thinking now of a 10 man Scout all sniper and then combat squad them?

 

Im also thinking about Combat squading the tacs, it makes them easier for them to be killed but I can spread them out and dilute the incoming fire and maybe make them a bit more survivable?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I use a ten man sniper scout squad with a missile launcher, and it has never done me wrong. The sniper rifles give you decent hitting power against monstrous creatures, you can pin enemy troops with them (its rare, but it can happen), and the launcher gives you an alternate anti-vehicle shot or a frag missile template for use against dismounted squads. Camo cloaked scouts in a bolstered ruin (due to presence of MOTF, Techmarine, or Lysander) have a 2+ cover save which is not at all crappy.

 

In a game this weekend against Dark Eldar, my scout squad accounted for two Raiders, most of a squad each of Warriors and Wyches, and put enough wounds on an Incubi squad with Archon to make them test and subsequently run off the table. They suffered no losses in return. And if you prefer using small squads, you can always just combat squad them and cover down on two different fire lanes and/or objectives.

[MagicMan]

I love scouts with Cloaks.

 

 

I prefer them as two five man units (can get two special weapons then) and they have decent hitting power, and are really hard to kill in cover. Great objective holders, which lets your Tacticals go roam midfield.

 

 

You can also infiltrate them if you really need to, can be good for lining up a first turn shot on some side/rear armour with the missile launcher, and remember snipers can get glance AV12 if you're lucky with rending.

 

My new favourite use for them is beating Ork Lootas. Since Lootas aren't generally fielded in big mobs (So not fearless...) and generally sit still in cover somewhere close to the board edge (Unless they're in a vehicle) you can reliably keep them pinned/run them off the board with just a 5 man unit of scouts.

[Purdy81]

Cheers guys,

 

I think Ive pretty much been sold on the scouts with the sniper rifles and cammo cloaks, gonna order 2 boxes now. Never really seen much pint in the bolster defense tactic before but with the scouts and cloaks I think its a really good idea.

 

off to waylandgames.co.uk I go, I must resist the urge to put heavy support options into my basket!

 

Once again thanks for all the advice

[DarkGuard]

Ahh Wayland, I got my Honour Guard from them (well all the bitz I needed to convert them). Anyway, three scoring units is perfectly fine for Marines, there's nothing to be ashamed of. At 1750pts, I use two plasma pattern Tactical squads with MMs in Rhinos, and a 5 man combat squad in a las plas Razorback. The first two are my midfield units and objective claimers, the latter is my backfield objective holder. Lascannon is handy for de-meching armies, plasma gun for approaching troops etc. And it's another tank, clogging up my opponent's target priority even more.

 

I find that for the objectives at the back, most people won't target them if they aren't doing a lot of damage, and if your front units are pressurizing them. Therefore, you don't want to spend more points than necessary. My las plas Razorback comes to 165pts, cheaper than an unupgraded 10 man Tactical squad. 5 Scout snipers with camo cloaks come to 90pts, and while they are vulnerable to small arms they can claim a 2+ cover. I'd suggest just getting the one box then at first, and see how you do with 5. You don't want to do what I did and buy 2 boxes, and then realise that you're only ever going to use one squad of 5, and even then that's rare.

[MagicMan]

If you dooooo use a unit of 10, consider taking Telion.

 

Since he gives the whole squad stealth, you don't need to buy them cloaks to get the +1 to cover save, so he essentially saves you 30 points. Plus hes got some pretty good rules, and its easy enough to convert one out of a normal scout sergeant (add a scoped bolter... :P )

[DarkGuard]

Telion is indeed a fine choice in any Scout sniper squad, mainly for the BS6 krak missile you can fire, plus his wound allocation shenanigans, allowing you to snipe Sergeants and special weapons. However, when you put Telion in you are making the decision that you want your unit to do damage. This means that you have to take risks with not going to ground, or going to ground and wasting your amazing shooting model. In a big unit Telion shines more as you can take casualties and still get good use out of him, and then when you're below half strength you start hitting the deck. In a small unit keep him at home.

 

In fact, it seems that the preferred sniper units are 5 men, maybe with heavy bolter, designed to go to ground and hold objectives. And 10 men with Telion and a missile launcher, designed to hold ground, not go to ground, and snipe tanks with the BS6 krak missile. May have to update my 101.

[TyrionTheImp]

Personally, I like tacticals, and use a minimum of 40 scoring bodies at 1500 or above. When I have used scouts, they've been small 5 man outflanking disruption groups with a PFist sarge and PW/CC to go after back line elements that aren't so good in close combat. They usually made their points back.

 

I say if you're going to use 10 man snipers, get Telion, if you're using 5 man, get 2 different squads to get the most out of sarges and special weapons. I feel scouts are too fragile against heavy flamers, and I don't know about you guys, but I always pack deep striking heavy flamers in my lists for just such an occasion (complimented with Multi-melta of course), so Stealth scouts in cover don't scare me that much. BS3 just doesn't give the damage output with single shots, for me to feel obligated to take them, and if I'm just using it for an extra Missile, I can (and do) the same thing with combat squads.

 

Of course, scouts are marines though, and they will stick around pretty well unless they're completely wiped, so if you want cheap bodies, probably the best place to get them.

[captain sox]

The key to the Snipers is to remember that all of their weapons are heavy (obviously not their pistols) so place them in a spot where they won't have to move. The range for the sniper rifle is also 36" plus they can hurt monsterous creatures and light vehicles.

 

Close combat Scouts are a gem too. They can get up to 30 attacks on the charge for a 10 man unit, and with S 4 and T 4 they are pretty durable in combat. And they need to be in combat... don't leave them out in the open to AP4 weapons.

 

I don't use Scouts with Bolters anymore. I just think snipers are better, with the longer range. Plus Bolter Scouts lose the +1 extra attack for 2 CC Weapons.

 

Hope this helped/

[greatcrusade08]

i use them all

close combt scout, bolter scouts and sniper scouts.. for all thier issues the bolter scouts work well as a distraction, pulling enemy units into areas where you want them.. plus for me they are a powerfist delivery system, i dont mind losing the unit for chance to ID a HQ choice or kill a couple of hard hitters like termies.

 

tbh with scouts 5 man units are a waste, the only exception is LSS teams.. youd think a 4+ would only be marginally worse than a 3+, but i find it makes a huge difference when the dice start rolling.

also the biggest issue with scouts isnt thier BS3 its thier WS3.. i find it a little ironic that scouts, who are space marines in training and have gone through the selection process (think special forces training) are no better in combat that a fresh faced imperial guardsman..

but anyhoo i digress, the WS3 means your getting hit on 3's by almost everyone, and that lower save only adds to the problem.. offensively (which is how i use them) assault scouts have the same damage output as assault marines..

so against low I enemies like orks, youll find they really shine