skoll Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 How do you deal with a horde army? Im currently slogging across the fields in all my fenrisian glory, sadly tough I faced an ork army yesterday whom while on foot had a truly disgusting amount of bodies on the table. If the table had been different (aka every piece of cover not having windows trough which im still getting shot infinite times) I feel I could have done better, but still it'd like to know how you folk deal with hordes' from tyranid to orks, I know templates are king but any other advice ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230002-dealing-with-horde-armies/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 if they're using buildings to fire from, stop firing back at the unit. fire at the building itself. (armour 10) and hope for a crew stunned result, making them unable to fire next turn. I field a unit of longfangs with 3 missile launchers and 2 lasscannons specificaly for that :) (or just destroy the building, forcing him to test for dangerous terrain, and replacing the building with a rubble-tile, just like you would a destroyed vehicle) also, whirlwinds for the win Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230002-dealing-with-horde-armies/#findComment-2761783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander alexander Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Don't foot-slog it. Also, SHOOT! Templates and amassed amount of shots are your friends. Long Fangs with; M. launchers, Heavy Bolters, or Plasma cannons are good choices, and be sure to give them razorbacks with TL lascannons for an anti armor edge. Whirlwinds are awesome as well. Hold back you grey hunters, in or out of their rhinos, and shoot until you need to zip in on the objectives. Dang it, I was gonna be first, but I took too long to type. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230002-dealing-with-horde-armies/#findComment-2761790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacton Qruze Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I use focused fire and finish off with assaults. Pick a unit, whittle it to a manageable level with a GH squad within assault range, and then finish it off there. Runepriests with Murderous Hurricane will help as well. Getting all those auto hits, as well as forcing dangerous terrain rolls can net casualties, as well as dropping them to initiative 1 in the event they assault you, which is particularly rough on nids, if your issue is fighting gaunts or stealers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230002-dealing-with-horde-armies/#findComment-2761794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoll Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 if they're using buildings to fire from, stop firing back at the unit. fire at the building itself. (armour 10) and hope for a crew stunned result, making them unable to fire next turn. I field a unit of longfangs with 3 missile launchers and 2 lasscannons specificaly for that :D (or just destroy the building, forcing him to test for dangerous terrain, and replacing the building with a rubble-tile, just like you would a destroyed vehicle) also, whirlwinds for the win sorry for me not slogging isnt a choice , I just dont believe in any vehicle that's less than a land raider. Also they werent firing from buildings. I faced a loota heavy ork army and sadly the die saturation just did away with me, he had range of my GH's the entire time and the cover there was wasnt cover at all(he could see me trough windows no matter how i placed the GH), so I had no choice but to move forward, the long fangs took heavy tolls on his dudes on the first turn, but he spread out his lootaz in lines specifically so I couldnt hit more than 2 with a frag template. So sadly during his turn 120ish shots later there were only 2 fangs left on the board... at that point rather than just die where I stood I decided to move forward, sadly I didnt concentrate my forces as I now realize I should have, as Having multiple squads of GH take on single squads of orks would have been the smarter thing to do. But thanks for the tips guys, I'll be looking into expanding the number of long fangs I posses now and possibly investing in a whirlwind . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230002-dealing-with-horde-armies/#findComment-2762098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 if they're shooting from windows, they're in buildings, aren't they? or are you talking about the open toppedness of their vehicles? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230002-dealing-with-horde-armies/#findComment-2762108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 How do you deal with a horde army? Im currently slogging across the fields in all my fenrisian glory, sadly tough I faced an ork army yesterday whom while on foot had a truly disgusting amount of bodies on the table. If the table had been different (aka every piece of cover not having windows trough which im still getting shot infinite times) I feel I could have done better, but still it'd like to know how you folk deal with hordes' from tyranid to orks, I know templates are king but any other advice ? This: 3++ on how to fight hordes. WITH PICTURES! :) sorry for me not slogging isnt a choice , I just dont believe in any vehicle that's less than a land raider. You don't believe in them because: You don't think they are true/real or You don't think they are effective? :P Both are untrue ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230002-dealing-with-horde-armies/#findComment-2762159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 besides, even landraiders are easily destroyed. I personaly have developped a great deal of love for empty droppods tough. they're grade A for deciding how the enemy can move ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230002-dealing-with-horde-armies/#findComment-2762161 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 I'm a living example of Willie's second point. For years, I never used a single transport with Vanilla. I then bought one, and used it as a razorback for a ten man Tactical Squad. I eventually went to Wolves, where I have two units who can actually travel in their transports, though they normally don't. Trust me. Your fears are unfounded. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230002-dealing-with-horde-armies/#findComment-2762162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 don't razorbacks have a transport capacity of 6 instead of 10? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230002-dealing-with-horde-armies/#findComment-2762165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 don't razorbacks have a transport capacity of 6 instead of 10? Razors can only take 6 men. But a 10 man squad can still buy one. But the Tacs can combat squad and one of those can take a ride. Or it can just be used as a screen, etc. +++ Link: 3++ Mech > Foot Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230002-dealing-with-horde-armies/#findComment-2762215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 read somewhere that you eighter put the full squad in a dedicated transport, or nothing at all, but since I hardly ever use it, I don't really care ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230002-dealing-with-horde-armies/#findComment-2762219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoll Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 How do you deal with a horde army? Im currently slogging across the fields in all my fenrisian glory, sadly tough I faced an ork army yesterday whom while on foot had a truly disgusting amount of bodies on the table. If the table had been different (aka every piece of cover not having windows trough which im still getting shot infinite times) I feel I could have done better, but still it'd like to know how you folk deal with hordes' from tyranid to orks, I know templates are king but any other advice ? This: 3++ on how to fight hordes. WITH PICTURES! ;) sorry for me not slogging isnt a choice , I just dont believe in any vehicle that's less than a land raider. You don't believe in them because: You don't think they are true/real or You don't think they are effective? :P Both are untrue :P Oh I know they are effective , I just dont believe in using them, something in me is repulsed at the thought of having me men cramped in a vehicle for turns on end and not displaying all their feral glory for the world to see. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230002-dealing-with-horde-armies/#findComment-2762546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassill Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 How do you deal with a horde army? Im currently slogging across the fields in all my fenrisian glory, sadly tough I faced an ork army yesterday whom while on foot had a truly disgusting amount of bodies on the table. If the table had been different (aka every piece of cover not having windows trough which im still getting shot infinite times) I feel I could have done better, but still it'd like to know how you folk deal with hordes' from tyranid to orks, I know templates are king but any other advice ? This: 3++ on how to fight hordes. WITH PICTURES! ;) sorry for me not slogging isnt a choice , I just dont believe in any vehicle that's less than a land raider. You don't believe in them because: You don't think they are true/real or You don't think they are effective? :P Both are untrue :P Oh I know they are effective , I just dont believe in using them, something in me is repulsed at the thought of having me men cramped in a vehicle for turns on end and not displaying all their feral glory for the world to see. Then what about podding them? 8 man Grey Hunter squad with: Flamer, Power Weapon, MotW, Wolf Standard with attached Wolf Guard in TDA with a combi-flamer. (Or 9 man with WG in PA w/Combi-Flamer). Basically drop right beside a mob of boyz, Double tap with bolters and hit em with flamers, then when they assault, you can get off a counter attack with 8-9 grey hunters, a guy with 6 (potentially) rending attacks, a bunch of power weapon attacks, and a wolf standard if you need some re-rolls. That way your men are only cramped in a vehicle for the very beginning and can get to grips with the enemy quicker in true Fenrisian style! ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230002-dealing-with-horde-armies/#findComment-2762555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoll Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 I like how you think sir. ALso another reason for not using rhinos for me is that I dunts get to assault out of em when i first disembark if my rhino moved :'( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230002-dealing-with-horde-armies/#findComment-2762568 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotspur Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 My bro-in-law is a 'nid player, so we battle it out every time we get to see each other. With my wolves, I can generally table him within four turns if I'm rolling well. My method is fairly simple: Blast weapons, template weapons, and weapons with high rate-of-fire. I really like plasma cannons with my long fangs when I play him; they can do a serious amount of damage. Assault cannons are my next favorite b/c of their relatively high strength and rending ability. Heavy-bolters and missiles are next b/c of their availability; for that reason, these are the main anti-horde weapons of my wolves army. I don't think auto-cannons aren't as good b/c they only get two shots, but they do have a longer reach. Vindicators, though short ranged, are death incarnate for hordes, as are whirlwinds. Land Raider Crusaders and Redeemers also work well. You just have to tool around with your list a bit and find a combination that works for you. Best of luck! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230002-dealing-with-horde-armies/#findComment-2762648 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiOfRuss Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Also they werent firing from buildings. I faced a loota heavy ork army and sadly the die saturation just did away with me, he had range of my GH's the entire time and the cover there was wasnt cover at all(he could see me trough windows no matter how i placed the GH), so I had no choice but to move forward, the long fangs took heavy tolls on his dudes on the first turn, but he spread out his lootaz in lines specifically so I couldnt hit more than 2 with a frag template. It sounds like you're not playing cover correctly. If the firing unit can see the target unit, that just means that it can shoot at it, not that it doesn't get a Cover Save. If had happened to position your GH so that his Lootas could not see you at all, then he would not have been able to shoot you at all. No Line of Sight = No Shooting (unless the rules explicitly say you can, like Indirect Fire). If your GH are in a building, or anything on the battlefield that is considered not "clear" terrain, then you get a Cover Save. Now, all that said, it doesn't actually matter unless he is firing AP3 weapons at you since your armor save is better anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230002-dealing-with-horde-armies/#findComment-2762693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoll Posted May 19, 2011 Author Share Posted May 19, 2011 Sorry I didnt make myself quiet clear there. To me cover consists of blocking line of sight as a term, because whilst cover saves are nice against anything that isnt ap 3 or lower the 3+ armor save is still superior. It'd would have been nice if I could have blocked LoS and forced him to engage me on my terms sadly that wasnt the case. I know how cover works but anything borderline a fortification provides meager cover saves compared to 3+ from marines a 2+ from termies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230002-dealing-with-horde-armies/#findComment-2763546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiOfRuss Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Ok, thanks for clearing that up. It sounds like you're really limiting yourself by not taking the cheap transports. Rhino's are designed to transport your troops to the front while keeping you safe from small arms (not anti-tank) fire. If you don't like rhinos you could consider drop pods. At least I would recommend something(s) fast that can get to those shooting lines and harass them a little bit: bikes or landspeeders work well in this role. Ironically, this thread is titled "dealing with horde armies" but in your particular game it sounds like it is the SW that are acting like the horde army: marching across the table on foot in large numbers, hoping to make it before taking too many casualties. Generally, when people are taking about facing "horde armies" they are on the receiving end of a huge wave of cheap things that you just can't kill enough of before they hit your lines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230002-dealing-with-horde-armies/#findComment-2763664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmk17 Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 How do you deal with a horde army? Im currently slogging across the fields in all my fenrisian glory, sadly tough I faced an ork army yesterday whom while on foot had a truly disgusting amount of bodies on the table. If the table had been different (aka every piece of cover not having windows trough which im still getting shot infinite times) I feel I could have done better, but still it'd like to know how you folk deal with hordes' from tyranid to orks, I know templates are king but any other advice ? This: 3++ on how to fight hordes. WITH PICTURES! :D sorry for me not slogging isnt a choice , I just dont believe in any vehicle that's less than a land raider. You don't believe in them because: You don't think they are true/real or You don't think they are effective? :P Both are untrue ^_^ Oh I know they are effective , I just dont believe in using them, something in me is repulsed at the thought of having me men cramped in a vehicle for turns on end and not displaying all their feral glory for the world to see. I had that problem too.... let go your 4th edition. But remember, the wolves aren't barbarians. They are brilliant and deadly together, using everything to their advantage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230002-dealing-with-horde-armies/#findComment-2764239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Oh I know they are effective , I just dont believe in using them, something in me is repulsed at the thought of having me men cramped in a vehicle for turns on end and not displaying all their feral glory for the world to see. I had that problem too.... let go your 4th edition. But remember, the wolves aren't barbarians. They are brilliant and deadly together, using everything to their advantage. When I started playing other people in '09, my list was a Foot one, and it took weeks of listening to others to start trying Mech. I wouldn't go back now. Unless the rules changed :P If you are wanting some fancy on your Rhinos, perhaps this can give you ideas: Black Matt's Black Legion blog - his Rhinos are much more creative than the factory finish many of us are content with. There is no reason they have to be boring grey boxes, you can make them as ferally glorious as your Wolves are. Cool Mini or Not has much in the way of yummy for nice Rhinos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230002-dealing-with-horde-armies/#findComment-2764428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander alexander Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 I think it's just a beginners thing, because I did it as well when I first started playing. I thought I was wasting points on a transport I could spend elsewhere. Wrong! Bieng able to deploy and move your units around the table is essential, it also keeps said units from getting shot up. Transports can also be used to tie up enemy units, obstruct LoS, and block movement. These points are useful against horde armies, and every other kind of army. If your making a list for all comers, but are facing infantry heavy and/or horde armies, I would suggest, or reinforce these point and units. -Longfangs; Hvy. Bolters, Plasmacannons, or Missile Launchers. I love Plasmacannons myself, but the choice is yours. Give them a Razorback with TL Lascannon turret for an edge against armor, or really big stuff. -Whirlwind; Having started out as a DA player back in 4th edition, this was the first tank I bought. It has also been the best. Point for Point, pound for pound, this has served me better in all the SM codices I have played than any other Heavy support. It rocks, flat out, its an excellent choice. -Now, to go along with what I said above, keep a unit or two around your long fangs and/or whirlwind to keep them from getting assaulted and keep them shooting. They both become targets very quickly. Against horde armies, the whirlwind always seems to be the #1 target. -Templates and amassed shots are your friends. -Flamers are free in your grey hunter packs, so, your basic troops choice are already well suited to taking on hordes. Grey Hunters are also well suited to CC when compared to your basic tactical marines, as many have said, they are one of the most flexible troops in the game. Drop pods are my preferred transport for grey hunters. Against hordes, which usually have $h!t for saves, drop pods with deathwind M. launchers are hell. You drop one and create a 24" Death zone. Empty or not. If you drop them empty, its amusing and distracting, drop them with the grey hunters inside, its slaughter :D . -I also love dropping a 'death-star' unit to distract and tie up the opponents units so all my stuff can do their stuff. You have a codex full of possible 'death-stars', but I prefer this; [Dreadnought, venerable or not depending on leftover points. Basic load out for me is a heavy flamer, and again plasma cannon. Put him in a drop pod and shove it right up their back door. It makes them scramble to get rid of it. Horribly fun against nids.] Thats it as far as any advice I have goes. And to make it clear, this is how I like to do it, you can do it however you like. The more you play, the more you develop your own playing style, so just do what you like and have fun, and take what us old men say with a grain of salt. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230002-dealing-with-horde-armies/#findComment-2764479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoll Posted May 20, 2011 Author Share Posted May 20, 2011 Ok, thanks for clearing that up. It sounds like you're really limiting yourself by not taking the cheap transports. Rhino's are designed to transport your troops to the front while keeping you safe from small arms (not anti-tank) fire. If you don't like rhinos you could consider drop pods. At least I would recommend something(s) fast that can get to those shooting lines and harass them a little bit: bikes or landspeeders work well in this role. Ironically, this thread is titled "dealing with horde armies" but in your particular game it sounds like it is the SW that are acting like the horde army: marching across the table on foot in large numbers, hoping to make it before taking too many casualties. Generally, when people are taking about facing "horde armies" they are on the receiving end of a huge wave of cheap things that you just can't kill enough of before they hit your lines. Yeah thats what the army I was facing was, sadly they also had lootas provide a huge long range firebase which due to terrain it was hard to counter. I understand the use of vehicles but the isue is rhinos wouldnt have helped here, when there are 45 lootas firing up to 135 shots per turn all of them strength 7, rhinos are gonna be metal boxes turn one I guess i could field em specifically so they are cover and turn em on their side and hope for wrecks and not explosions to turn into LoS blocking cover, but apart from that not much would have been done with em. I see the issue with my deployment tough. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230002-dealing-with-horde-armies/#findComment-2764792 Share on other sites More sharing options...
techmarine Azuris Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 WG TDA in drop pods says bye bye to lootas, plus if you were playing a friend (or just for fun) shame on him tbh, also DP is general work rlly well here Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230002-dealing-with-horde-armies/#findComment-2764887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.