Twipp Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 First, I have to tell that I have not faced Trygons yet and I am quite unaware about their abilities. I know their stats and it feels like I could drop one Trygon with Long Fang missiles (10xmissiles, 2 pack) and such. Latelly I have played against my friend`s Tyranid army and I have won all those games quite easilly. We both are still rookies when it comes to 40k. After the last game he said that he will try to counter my Long Fangs with some Deep Striking Trygons. Should I be worried? Usually you cant launch assault after Deep strike, but does Trygon have some special rule? If he assault my Long Fangs is it massacre? Usually I counter infiltrate with Chooser of Slain and Outflank by carefully selecting positions for my Long Fangs. How about with other deep striking armies? How do you guard your Long Fangs? You leave one unit to guard them inside Razorback, or a Rune Priest? Or just ignore the dangers of enemy deep striking. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230052-how-to-counter-trygons-who-target-my-long-fangs/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarapham Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Regarding the Trygon you do not have to worry about any special tricks from it when it deepstrikes, it cannot assault and it cannot even do damage as is appears like its Mawloc sibling. If it is a normal Trygon its shooting is not such a worry (6 s6 shots 12") but if it is a Trygon prime it can actually do some damage with its shooting (12 s6 18"), yet still no assault the turn it arrives. If you have 10 missiles you should be able to sink it the turn it arrives without much hassle, and if it is close to your lines I´m sure you will have a few meltaguns or plasmaguns from your GH packs in range as well. Keep in mind though that the Trygon does have fleet, meaning that if it does not shoot it can run d6" and then charge, meaning it has a 7-12" charge range which can sometimes come as a suprise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230052-how-to-counter-trygons-who-target-my-long-fangs/#findComment-2762549 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKAwolf Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 A Rune Priest with Tempest Wrath can help soften the blow against mass deep striking armys one of the dirty tricks from the internet is that if the Trygon is near enough to any Gants, multi-assault both but pour all you attacks into the Gants and try to win the combat and force Fearless wounds on the Trygon. edit: the key being you must bring the weight of attacks to win a combat. Put Arjac Rockfist in your Fangs Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230052-how-to-counter-trygons-who-target-my-long-fangs/#findComment-2762566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiOfRuss Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 What you actually need to be concerned about is if he decides to Outflank Genestealers and send them against your Long Fangs... DS'ing a Trygon will likely just get it shot up. Your friend is in for at tough run, in general. Space Wolves are a good matchup against Tyranids. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230052-how-to-counter-trygons-who-target-my-long-fangs/#findComment-2762671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Just keep a unit of Greyhunters nearby to intercept Genestealers, Genestealers dont have assault grenades so youre most likely going first when youre in cover. 15 Bloodclaws with Wolfpriest and Wolfguard with wolfclaws is even better. (even though its a huge mass of points.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230052-how-to-counter-trygons-who-target-my-long-fangs/#findComment-2762680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear da Lamentation Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 What you actually need to be concerned about is if he decides to Outflank Genestealers and send them against your Long Fangs... DS'ing a Trygon will likely just get it shot up. Your friend is in for at tough run, in general. Space Wolves are a good matchup against Tyranids. Damn right. I play against Nids all the time and this is without doubt their best tactic in general. 2 decent units of genestealers with toxin sacs coming in on your flank does LOADS of damage. Just the threat of it forces me to put my LF in non-optimum position all the time. I have to be 18" away from the side because even in cover, they are going to go through by back field like butter. I've even had them come in on the opposite side to the rest of my army and catch my TWC and Lord, wiping out all TWC 1st round. Recently my tactic has been to push my TWC and Bikers forward and hold back my rhino's GH in a blocking position to be able to react quickly as soon as the GS come in. This has worked really well - but my mate always seems to get his reserves in 1st round ... I wouldn't be able to keep this tactic up if it went on to the 4th round without them showing up. I would agree about the Trygon. Because it can't assault the round it shows up, it comes in, does some damage and then you get to keep shooting it until it dies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230052-how-to-counter-trygons-who-target-my-long-fangs/#findComment-2762806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisWolf Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Get a rune priest in there with Murderous Hurricane and any unit that you hit is in difficult and dangerous terrain, thus assaults at initiative 1! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230052-how-to-counter-trygons-who-target-my-long-fangs/#findComment-2763022 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 With Counter-attack and being in cover, you can easily wipe a Genestealer off the table. I have had only one Trygon Prime ever go after my Long Fangs. His shooting killed my pack leader, my turn I took some wounds off him with ML the got lucky and insta-gibbed him with a runic weapon. I got lucky and should have just relied on shooting instead. Considering everything sneaky in a Nids army available, it is best to have something held back to babysit the Long Fangs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230052-how-to-counter-trygons-who-target-my-long-fangs/#findComment-2763214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderhawk3015 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Murderous hurricane, throw a pack leader in there with TDA and a SS if your really worried about it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230052-how-to-counter-trygons-who-target-my-long-fangs/#findComment-2763223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twipp Posted May 19, 2011 Author Share Posted May 19, 2011 Many thousand thanks to all you guys! So many great ideas how to counter the thread of Deep Strike and outflank. That Murderous Hurricane seems quite nice, if it drops the enemy initiative to 1. I am going to put my second Rune Priest to babysit my Long Fangs. second power being Living lightining I can still attack to other targets far away. Also planning to leave one Razorback near by with 5 Grey Hunters and WG. Placing them inside cover area is also great, this comes handy for my other Fang pack as they are lacking Rune Priest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230052-how-to-counter-trygons-who-target-my-long-fangs/#findComment-2763447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Jaws always works for me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230052-how-to-counter-trygons-who-target-my-long-fangs/#findComment-2763470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eikrem Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Sorry if this is hijacking your thread brother, but what would everyone else do when faced with 2 Trygons (possibly 1 Trygon/1 Prime), 1 Mawloc, 1 Winged Hive Tyrant along with other things such as Ymgarls and normal genestealers? I just cant bring them down quick enough. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230052-how-to-counter-trygons-who-target-my-long-fangs/#findComment-2763573 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarapham Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Sorry if this is hijacking your thread brother, but what would everyone else do when faced with 2 Trygons (possibly 1 Trygon/1 Prime), 1 Mawloc, 1 Winged Hive Tyrant along with other things such as Ymgarls and normal genestealers? I just cant bring them down quick enough. Well what do you have in your list/available? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230052-how-to-counter-trygons-who-target-my-long-fangs/#findComment-2763577 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twipp Posted May 19, 2011 Author Share Posted May 19, 2011 Its totally ok Eikrem :) that question is really interesting too. Like Sarapham wrote, what kinda of list do you have? I guess you should take your troops out of Rhinos and rapid fire them and concentrate with your frag missiles to Genestealers. ? Not sure thought. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230052-how-to-counter-trygons-who-target-my-long-fangs/#findComment-2763582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eikrem Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Ive faced my Tyranid mate a few times and the monstorous creature list I have found to be almost impossible to crack. With everything deep striking you have nothing to shoot at first turn, then everything on top of you second turn onward. I think he gets incredible lucky dice rolls as well which doesnt help. My usual lists against him include Rune Priests, Wolf Guard, Lone Wolves, Grey Hunters, Long Fangs, and either bikes or speeders. Rune Priests are kept in rhinos while casting their spells as long as possible. Everything else I have equipped in every possible combination trying to find out what works. I am determined to find an answer one day soon! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230052-how-to-counter-trygons-who-target-my-long-fangs/#findComment-2763603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
clanfield Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 tempest wraith and lots of grey hunters and a odd vindicator dosn't helpiv not lost to a deepstrikeing nid army yet Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230052-how-to-counter-trygons-who-target-my-long-fangs/#findComment-2763608 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarapham Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Well some general tips: - Castle up: If he is deepstriking with so many things make sure you have good defensive positions where every unit can support one another, also if you have transports you can use them as walls to keep softer things safe from CC. Castliing up also makes it harder for him to DS right into the middle of your lines without risking mishap so he will have to try in the perifery. - Focus fire: When the big things show up, kill them one at a time. What I mean is dont spread your fire around and take a few wounds here and there. For example kill one thing with Long Fangs and then Focus bolters and special weapons on others, and dont move on onto another target until one is dead. -Prioritize: This goes with the above point in figure out what is the biggest threat and kill it in order of power. For example while a Mawloc can do lots of damage when it appears, it is not as dangerous in close combat as a real Trygon.. therefor you kill the Trygon first. In this you have to account for things like range, both shooting and assaulting.. like the Trygon´s fleet and adapt to that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230052-how-to-counter-trygons-who-target-my-long-fangs/#findComment-2763610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eikrem Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Cheers for that Sarapham, very helpful. I will bear it in mind the next time I face him. Dunno if this is asking too many questions and getting off topic too much, but whats the best antidote to lash whips and bone swords? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230052-how-to-counter-trygons-who-target-my-long-fangs/#findComment-2763651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiOfRuss Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 I would actually get those Rune Priests out of the transports, and put Saga of the Beastslayer with a Wolf Tooth Necklace on one of them. Hit those MC's with Murderous Hurricane and try to bait them into charging your squad with the Rune Priest. Then said Trygon or whatever charges, and is at I1 because of MH. Your RP will go first, hitting on 3's with rerolls. Then you pray for a 6 to Wound, and then Force Weapon it. You can also do this with Arjac throwing his TH, reducing the MC to I1. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230052-how-to-counter-trygons-who-target-my-long-fangs/#findComment-2763657 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarapham Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Cheers for that Sarapham, very helpful. I will bear it in mind the next time I face him. Dunno if this is asking too many questions and getting off topic too much, but whats the best antidote to lash whips and bone swords? Well if its on warriors then just shoot them, Missile Long fangs and Melta guns make a mess of them so their 3 wounds does not matter one bit because of instant death. Same thing goes for shrikes as well. Regarding Lash whips and Bone swords, against Tyrant with guards missiles, melta and plasma are your best bet once more. There are very few things in the Tyranid book with more than a 3+ save so missiles wreck stuff. The Tyrant with Tyrant Guard is also very slow so should have ample time to deal with them after having dealt with more imminent threats like the Trygon and stealers. One thing to know also is that mass fire of bolters does rather well against Nids because of their lack of real good armor saves. And the fact if you face that many MCs he will not have that many models on the table which allows you to focus very well. As stated above, Murderous hurricane which makes the enemy strike at I1 is great because you can actually have a fighting chance with enough attacks even against T6. Force weapon attacks can work but that means you did not use a psychich in the previous turn.. which you most often want to do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230052-how-to-counter-trygons-who-target-my-long-fangs/#findComment-2763690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Many thousand thanks to all you guys! So many great ideas how to counter the thread of Deep Strike and outflank.That Murderous Hurricane seems quite nice, if it drops the enemy initiative to 1. I am going to put my second Rune Priest to babysit my Long Fangs. second power being Living lightining I can still attack to other targets far away. Also planning to leave one Razorback near by with 5 Grey Hunters and WG. Placing them inside cover area is also great, this comes handy for my other Fang pack as they are lacking Rune Priest. Rune priests are not the answer at all. I got lucky with mine and my rolls to runic weapon him off the table. A Trygon Prime is going to force 3d6 psychic tests on your rune priest which is not a good thing. That GH pack in Razorback will be way more effective then a rune priest failing psychic tests or killing himself due to perils. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230052-how-to-counter-trygons-who-target-my-long-fangs/#findComment-2764081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zagman Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Jaws always works for me. Requires a 6 to drop a trygon, not terribly efficient. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230052-how-to-counter-trygons-who-target-my-long-fangs/#findComment-2764386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eikrem Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Dunno if its me being stupid, but where does it say that Murderous Hurricane drops I to 1? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230052-how-to-counter-trygons-who-target-my-long-fangs/#findComment-2764546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarapham Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Dunno if its me being stupid, but where does it say that Murderous Hurricane drops I to 1? Murderous Hurricane makes the unit take tests like moving through difficult and dangerous terrain whenever they move, including assault... and any unit assualting through difficult and dangerous terrain counts as striking with I1 unless having assault grenades as is stated in the rulebook. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230052-how-to-counter-trygons-who-target-my-long-fangs/#findComment-2764587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eikrem Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Murderous Hurricane makes the unit take tests like moving through difficult and dangerous terrain whenever they move, including assault... and any unit assualting through difficult and dangerous terrain counts as striking with I1 unless having assault grenades as is stated in the rulebook. Thanks for clearing that up for me, it should help me out a bit now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230052-how-to-counter-trygons-who-target-my-long-fangs/#findComment-2764638 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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