Strike squads

[JasoX]

What is the best gear to pack your strike squads with? if considering your building an all-comers list?

 

10 man strong with 2 psycannons, psybolts and a hammer? few halberds? rhino? nothing, keep it simple stupid?

[RedemptionNL]

I like either a 10 man squad with a hammer on the Justicar (for the extra attack), 2 psycannons and the rest just regular swords. I find Halberds makes them too expensive, so I keep those for Purifiers and Terminators. If I have points left I get Psybolts for the squad. So that's 270-290 points.

 

The other way I field them is a 5 man squad with a hammer on the Justicar and (sometimes) 1 Psycannon in a Razorback with TL Heavy Bolters with Psybolts, which comes in at 160-170 points. Nice objective grabber, decent cheap 36" firepower from the S6 Heavy Bolters and you have Warp Quake to defer Deep Strikers.

[Zeratil]

It all depends what else you're bringing to your list. Personally I start of my GKSS at the most basic loadout* - 10 men, 2 PC (with a rhino), or 5 men 1 PC and a (PB Razorback). You're always going to take at least the psycannons (god those things are awesome) and nearly always a transport (you can DS with gkss remember, works well against guard if you do it right). Then fill out the rest of your list before taking the psybolts and hammers. Why? Because you want those things to be useful, if you have alot of anti-tank fire power in your list, you may wish to drop hammers on your units and save yourself the points (those points add up fast across multple squads). Psybolts are the same with anti-infantry and very light armour, redunancy is good, very good. But overdoing it is just pointless when it can get you more boots on the ground, or free up those extra points for another unit. Consider what the upgrades Actually do for your army, then decide whether its worth it.

 

For example, I don't like running with inquisition forces in my army (just personnal preference) which means I'm usually lighter on anti-tank, heavier on anti-infantry. So for my lists hammers are usually a good bet, as there's a good chance one of my gkss squads will either run into a tank or I will want be abale to threaten enemy vehicles to stop them parking near my troops (just because you didn't use the hammers, doesn't mean they weren't effective). On the other hand I usually skip the psybolts, while they always make your units cause more wounds, they're quite expensive, and I already have alot of anti infantry firepower all over the board. It can already outshoot just about any other normal infantry squad, and I'd rather invest those extra points in some more anti-tank firepower somewhere else.

 

A hybrid Inq/GK army may have it the other way around, they can be covered in melta weapons, meaning they've got alot of anti-tank fire power, and tanks don't want to go anywhere near them, but they may be willing to spend those extra 20 points making some very nasty GKSS to shoot apart infantry before the can get to the more vulnerable melta units.

 

Which is a long winded way of saying 'it depends'. But there are very few upgrades that are automatic 'must includes' think about what your squad is going to be doing (and what your opponents may be doing) and how well your covered in other areas. Strength 5 bolt rounds or daemonhammers never hurt, but those are points that are sometimes better spent elsewhere. That being said there are a few upgrades for GKSS that are almost always not worth it - the CC upgrades that aren't 'a single hammer' aren't worth it, they're too expensive (falchions, hammers) or you don't have enough attacks to make it worth while (halberds).

 

 

 

 

 

* I do this with all my units until I've spent about 85% of the points, and then go back and do extra upgrades or add/remove units

[Drachnon]

For me it depends on what the squad needs to do. Right now I've made a list with two squads in rhino's. One has 2 psycannons and psybolt ammo the other has a hammer and 8 halberds (expensive but I had the points) and has in inquisitor attached. Both squads are in rhino.

So pretty much I make the squad either close combat or ranged, though because of their basic equipment they can do either if needed.

[antique_nova]

They are standard front line troopers, so just psycannons and a thunder hammer for me plus a rhino of course :D

[Chengar Qordath]

other has a hammer and 8 halberds (expensive but I had the points) and has in inquisitor attached.

Why not just take a squad of Purifiers instead? Purifier with a halberd is only one point per model more than a Strike Squad Marine with a halberd, and I would think the extra attack and everything else Purifiers get more than justifiers paying a single point for them.

[yperihitikos]

If you are going to equip them with anything more than 2 psycannons take purifiers for cost effectiveness.

[number6]

At a minimum, give the unit as many psycannons as you can. 1 for a 5-man unit; 2 for a 10-man unit. Try hard not run them in any sizes other than 5 or 10. You either want to minimize your investment so you can get more of the same (and also other stuff) or you want to potentially combat squad the unit and/or you have a Rhino you want to use. Everything past the psycannons is gravy.

 

The point of a Strike Squad is to shoot its psycannon or psycannons. It's just that simple.

 

Now, you give the Justicar a hammer to make the unit a bit of a scarier prospect in an assault, and so you don't just get boned when somebody drops a dreadnought in your face or you are forced into an assault with a dread or a monstrous creature. Threatening instant death on Marines is also handy. It's a cheap enough upgrade -- and you get two attacks with it (3 on the charge) -- so this is a fine investement to make, if not a required investment.

 

And that's it for kit. Don't bother with anything else. Strikeiknights are not true assault/close combat units. They are merely better than average and scare basic Troops only. Spending points to try making them better than that is wasted. Put those points elsewhere.

 

If you have 5 man units, I would prefer the razorback with psybolts as the transport of choice. Cheap and deadly. Drive to midfield, disembark GKs, shoot shoot shoot! :tu:

 

If you have a 10 man unit, you can still make use of the razorback if you plan to combat squad. One unit takes the two psycannons and the other unit gets the justicar. This is especially handy if you have a spare vehicle that can be hijacked. For example, say, an Inquisitorial Chimera? Let the Justicar squad take the Razorback and stuff the shooty GKs in the Chimera. Win. :lol:

 

Otherwise, a Rhino is a fine choice for a 10-man unit as you can at least shoot the psycannons out the top hatch.

[TyrionTheImp]

It really depends on the rest of your army, if you're playing MSU stick with that, if you're using bigger squads, stick with that. However, if I was going to build the most flexible strike squad possible it would be this:

 

10 Man Unit-Justicar w/ Hammer, 2x Psycannons, Psybolts, Rhino.

 

The amount of things you can do with this are astounding. You can play big units, put them in the rhino, shoot psycannons out the top hatch, or foot slog using rhino for cover and pound infantry with S5 shots. Alternatively you can play MSU, have the psycannons inside the Rhino, other half outside behind popping out to shoot their S5 at infantry while the Psycannons go after transports or tougher targets.

 

And of course, you can Deep Strike and either stay as a big squad, or split into 2 smaller squads, whatever fits. Having an extra rhino chassis to provide cover is never a bad thing if you do choose to deep strike. Best part is all these decisions can be made on the fly depending on the opponent.

[number6]

And of course, you can Deep Strike and either stay as a big squad, or split into 2 smaller squads, whatever fits. Having an extra rhino chassis to provide cover is never a bad thing if you do choose to deep strike. Best part is all these decisions can be made on the fly depending on the opponent.

Except that we are not likely going to be given the option to combat squad in reserves. GW has specifically put in its Marine FAQs that a unit in reserve may not combat squad, the singular exception being when you are in a drop pod. So if you put your Strikers into reserves, they are forced to be a 10-man unit regardless of whether you deep strike them or walk them onto the table.

[TyrionTheImp]

The FAQ is right, but how people interpret it I think is wrong.

 

"...squads placed in reserve cannot break into combat squads." is right. While in reserve, you cannot break into combat squads. Why? Combat Squads are done upon deployment, and deployment is when the unit enters the table. You do not deploy a unit in reserve (no where in the BRB does it say a unit being held in reserve is deployed in reserve) so you cannot combat squad while they are in reserve.

 

The Combat Squad rule reads, "The decision to split the unit into combat squads, as well as which models go into each combat squad, must be made when the unit is deployed." (Codex: Space Marines pg. 51, Codex: Grey Knights pg. 21)

 

The reserves rule reads, "Once all of the units have been rolled for, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it..." (BRB pg. 94)

 

The Deep Strike rule reads, ""Roll for arrival of these units as specified in the rules for reserves and then deploy them as follows." (BRB Pg. 95)

 

Since Combat Squads are done during the unit's deployment, units held in reserve can deploy as Combat Squads, but cannot break into Combat Squads while still in reserve and arrive via two different means, as outlined in the FAQ.

 

So, you would roll for your Strike Squad as one unit, and then deploy them as 2.

[Valerian]

The FAQ is right, but how people interpret it I think is wrong.

 

....{SNIP}

 

 

Yep, that's how I read it.

 

Valerian

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I'm not planning to run any strike squads but if I did I would run a full squad in a rhino with two cannons, psybolt ammo and a hammer for the Justicar. If falchions are ruled to grant 2+ attacks then I'd also take five pairs. Psybolt ammo is really good - basically each GK has a 30" ranged heavy bolter with one less shot and one less AP... if you run a full squad and don't split them into combat squads the +1S becomes a huge asset - I've seen a squad of GKSS mow down Abbadon before he could reach them to assault and that was impressive. It's not really that expensive, basically you're paying 2 points per GK for a full squad. Even if you combat squad often I think it's a solid investment. You're going to inflict a lot more damage with S5 versus S4. It's what it is.

 

G :devil:

[templargdt]

My strike squads are 10 Knights, 2x Psycannon, Hammer on the Justicar, Rhino. That's it. Lots of firepower, mobile, able to do decent work in assault.

[Red Lost Soldier]

The combat squad rules are confusing.

 

Say I have the following unit:

10 Grey Knights, 2 Psycannons, Nemesis Daemonhammer, Rhino

 

So it is not legal for me to deploy half in the Rhino and hold the other in reserve to deep strike them. Is it still legal for me to hold the squad in reserve, then deep strike one combat squad while the other comes on in the Rhino? I am deploying both at the same time, and splitting when deploying. Also I only make 1 roll for the entire unit? Do I still only make one roll if the Rhino does not have any occupants?

[Darkmagi]

Personally I arm my strikes with 1 hammer, 2 halberds(most of my pagk are old metal versions), 1 special weapon per 5 men. I usually use razorbacks but even as a whole 10 man unit it allows for redundancy for if say my Justicar dies to perils I'm not useless against a dread. plus i have the ability to thin out an enemy unit before they strike which I think is a bonus.

[TyrionTheImp]

The combat squad rules are confusing.

 

Say I have the following unit:

10 Grey Knights, 2 Psycannons, Nemesis Daemonhammer, Rhino

 

So it is not legal for me to deploy half in the Rhino and hold the other in reserve to deep strike them. Is it still legal for me to hold the squad in reserve, then deep strike one combat squad while the other comes on in the Rhino? I am deploying both at the same time, and splitting when deploying. Also I only make 1 roll for the entire unit? Do I still only make one roll if the Rhino does not have any occupants?

 

Here is what you can't do with Combat Squad capable units:

 

Have 5 men start on the table 5 men off.

 

Have one squad come in from reserve in a transport, and the other walk on.

 

Have one squad walk in and one deep strike.

 

Until the unit is deployed, the 10 man unit counts as ONE unit. You roll for reserves as if it was ONE unit, but deploy it as TWO. However, this means the TWO units must come in via the same means (walking on or Deep Striking) and this also means that they cannot be held in reserve inside a Transport and then combat squad (as only one unit can occupy a transport, and you can't combat squad while in reserves. See Space Marine FAQ). Exception to this rule is Drop Pods which Combat Squads are done AFTER the unit disembarks.

 

Units that have purchased a dedicated transport and are mounted in it (true for any unit in a transport it can start the game in) are rolled for as a single unit. If the unit is not riding in the dedicated transport, it's 2 units, because the Dedicated Transport and the unit it was purchased for count as 2 units. One unit riding in a transport counts as one unit for the sake of reserves. This also means a dedicated transport can start in reserve, and the unit can start on the board, or vice versa, and they can arrive through different means.

[BrotherWasted]

EDIT: My bad. The decision to deep strike or not is made when you put your unit into reserves during army deployment. Therefore you cannot combat squad when they arrive, then DS one half and walk the other on.

[jeffersonian000]

I take mine in as 10-man squads with 2 hammers and 2 psycannon, no other upgrades. This lets me stay flexible, so I can combat squad as needed while still keeping a hammer in each 5-man group. I can also choose to put both cannons in the smae group or one in each, as the situation dictates.

 

After playing 2-3 Land Raiders in every list for the past few years, foot slogging is a nice change of pace.

 

SJ

[Red Lost Soldier]

Thank you for the clarification Tyrion. So in order to utilise deep strike, I must hold the unit in reserve, roll as one unit, roll for the Rhino separately, and then if I combat squad deep strike each 5 man squad in a separate location.

[TyrionTheImp]

Or the rhino can start on the board. Yes, that is how it works though.

 

I would just buy a razorback in that case though for extra firepower, or as a transport for another unit being put into combat squads (like one that starts on the board).

 

All this is in the rulebook and codices though, it's just fitting it all together really. The biggest confusion comes from the SM FAQ which is correct, but also poorly worded so there are some interpretations which make it mean you can't combat squad if the unit is in reserve at all. :) Not the first GW has dropped the ball with wording.

[number6]

The FAQ is right, but how people interpret it I think is wrong.

 

....{SNIP}

 

 

Yep, that's how I read it.

 

Valerian

I disagree. There is one and only one Deployment phase in the game, and it happens before Turn 1. You deploy a unit into Reserves instead of deploying them on the table. The reserves rules -- which may include deep striking -- then tell you how the unit arrives onto the table/into the game. But the unit is not deployed any longer. That has already happened.

 

Sorry, no combat squadding if you deploy a unit into reserves. :)

[jeffersonian000]

Sorry, Number6, but I agree with ther others that combat squading occurs when units are placed on the table. All the FAQ did was attempt to clarify that a unit could not be split with one half left in reserve while the other was on the table. "Attempt" be the operative word, as I feel they failed to clarify anything.

 

SJ

[BrotherWasted]

The FAQ is right, but how people interpret it I think is wrong.

 

....{SNIP}

 

 

Yep, that's how I read it.

 

Valerian

I disagree. There is one and only one Deployment phase in the game, and it happens before Turn 1. You deploy a unit into Reserves instead of deploying them on the table. The reserves rules -- which may include deep striking -- then tell you how the unit arrives onto the table/into the game. But the unit is not deployed any longer. That has already happened.

 

Sorry, no combat squadding if you deploy a unit into reserves. :(

 

The rulebook clearly states that a unit arriving from reserves is "deployed". A unit arrives, and is then deployed. When a unit is deployed, you may choose to use Combat Squads.

[TyrionTheImp]

The FAQ is right, but how people interpret it I think is wrong.

 

....{SNIP}

 

 

Yep, that's how I read it.

 

Valerian

I disagree. There is one and only one Deployment phase in the game, and it happens before Turn 1. You deploy a unit into Reserves instead of deploying them on the table. The reserves rules -- which may include deep striking -- then tell you how the unit arrives onto the table/into the game. But the unit is not deployed any longer. That has already happened.

 

Sorry, no combat squadding if you deploy a unit into reserves. :(

 

I used to think the same thing, however after going through the rulebook it never says "deploy into reserves" ever. Units are "held" but never "deployed". However, it does state explicitly that units are deployed in the Deep Strike and Reserve rules, as well as the Combat Squads rule. I've done some very careful reading around this exact topic before this ever really came up. I've found nothing in the rulebook to indicate units are ever deployed in reserve, or ever deployed before being placed on the board.