The Inquisitor's Guide to Armybuilding without Grey Knights

[maturin]

I've been wanting to make use of my old Daemonhunters Radical army for quite some time now, and the new codex had gotten me excited about the possibilities. However, I've been disturbed by the numerous net-lists with spammed DCA units, cries of "Coteaz = CHEEZ!!!!", and various grumblings about how a radical army isn't competitive. I thought a different take on the topic might be interesting. Hopefully it'll be a more generalized discussion of how best to create a Radical army, and the strengths and weaknesses of particular builds. I'm willing to start things off, but I'd be chuffed if people want to contribute their thoughts as well. I'll do my best to consolidate everyone's opinions expressed in the top post, but this is my first attempt at this sort of thing so it might get a bit....messy. :)

 

Let me add that my following views are completely Theoryhammer^TM, as I've just begun to collect the models necessary for this army type. If you have tabletop experience with these units, please let us know how they've done. Any and all comments/discussion are welcome.

 

 

Let's begin.

 

THE UNITS

What's a Radical Army made of, anyways?

 

A true Radical list should really only consist of the following units:

Inquisitor HQ's

Imperial Assassins

Henchmen squads/Chimeras

Land Raiders & Rhinos (maybe, if you don't have drivers with GK psychic powers)

 

That's not a lot of choices. Add to that the fact that one of the HQ's must be Coteaz and we've limited our army build even further. (For the purposes of this discussion I'm going to assume that Henchmen units take up FOC slots, so are limited to 6 but fill the mandatory 2 troop slots). However, the flexibility in Henchmen squad construction makes up for these restrictions to a limited extent.

 

If you're willing to be un-Puritan about your Radicalness (a radical Radical?), you could consider adding the following units, adding some "fluff" explanation of how they're not actually Grey Knights....but you might be labelled as a cheesemonger.

Techmarines

Dreadnoughts

Stormravens

Razorbacks

 

Next, realize that you're going to be relying on your (up to) 6 troops choices to do most of the fighting. The composition of your henchmen squads is therefore going to determine how your army performs on the tabletop. Since the number of possible builds of henchmen squads approaches infinity, let's look at the roles you'd like them to fill - a much more manageable proposition. But first, we should decide how you want your army to play, which will determine the roles to fill.

 

CHOOSING A PLAYSTYLE

Will your army be shooty? Choppy? Earth/Water/Fire/Air?

 

Of course, most Radical armies will have aspects of each of the following. It's more a matter of which one you choose to make your focus.

 

Shooty Armies:

These will rely on 2 squads of servitor-borne heavy weapons teams as a firebase, a vindicare assassin, chimera spam, and possible psyfleman support. This type of army build will require you to assign a second HQ Inquisitor as babysitter to the second servitor squad, to avoid mindlock. It's a good thing they can be cheap, though you may want to kit him out to contribute from afar. Placing these units in cover gives you an important 4+ cover save.

 

Techmarines with Orbital Strike Relays can contribute destruction from a distance, but they're an expensive proposition with unanswered questions about interactions with servo skulls and effectiveness on the table.

 

You'll still require mid-range and assaulty henchmen squads to fill in the points for the rest of your army, as well as provide you the ability to purchase Chimeras. Lots of multilasers and heavy bolters, even at BS3, can be a key component of your long-range fire support.

 

Mid-range Armies:

The ability for multiple henchmen squads to take plasma & melta in abundance makes this a common build. Warrior acolytes can take bolters and storm bolters in high numbers for low points costs, and throwing Jokaero into a squad of bolter-toting acolytes gives the possibility (if unreliably) of extended range or rending shots. However, 5+ armor, Toughness 3, and close-ranged weapons make an army based on these units something of a glass hammer.

 

Assault Armies:

Death Cult Assassins. Crusaders. Arcoflagellants. Banishers with eviscerators. We definitely have choices. :D There are drawbacks to an army based on assaulty henchmen though - putting them in Land Raider Crusaders is the only way to give these henchmen frag grenades. This will eat into your points budget quickly. Otherwise assaulting out of Chimeras & Rhinos is feasible, but not optimal. A smart opponent facing this type of army will sit in cover and get their blows in first, before your very fragile units can strike. And you will still require units that can destroy vehicles first, so your assault units can kill them.

 

On the other hand, Imperial Assassins now come with frag grenades and can happily assault units in cover without penalty. And if I'm reading the codex correctly, they can now embark in vehicles (as a unit of one). Am I misreading this somehow?

 

Techmarines/Inquisitors with psychotroke grenades, rad grenades, and Hammerhand all add to the attractiveness of an assault-based Radical army. It's too bad they don't give frag grenades to an entire unit.

 

 

 

TROOPS

The Inquisitorial Warband

 

In our army, the one and only troops selection is the Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband. Composed of 3-12 models, selected from 10 possible henchmen types, the warband is infinitely customizable. You can even make up units composed of power armored warriors - but this will cost you. Many of the options available are not cost-effective and sorting through the choices can be confusing. Again, let's break this down by the style of play in which you'd like to use your warbands.

 

Long Range Firepower

Your long range support option is built around a core of up to three servitors, each toting a heavy bolter, multi melta, or plasma cannon - at a bargain price! You can supplement with some Jokaero to add in lascannon fire and possible range extension. However, you must also account for the cost of the inquisitor who will be needed to avoid the perils of Mindlock - a 50% chance that the squad will do nothing that round. Coteaz is the perfect choice for one such squad. There is only one HQ slot left available for another inquisitor, so most armies will have 2 of these types of warbands at most. If you do choose to have a second squad with inquisitor, it's probably best to keep him cheap as he hopefully won't be getting into close combat. It's probably wise to bulk up the squad with some ablative warriors as well in order to keep the servitors alive and firing.

 

Some people advocate placing these units in Chimera bunkers, to provide them with extra survivability while still being able to contribute their firepower. While this is no doubt a very good option in some scenarios, you should also consider deploying these units on foot, in area terrain. The disadvantage of firing from Chimeras is that Chimeras can be shaken or stunned quite easily, leaving your servitors unable to shoot for a turn. Disembarking to shoot still leaves you unable to use the heavy weapons. Consider deploying the warbands with good fields of fire in area terrain - infantry models will never be "shaken" (though they can be pinned), and they will receive a 4+ cover save from incoming fire. The attached inquisitor (you are using one, right?) confers stubborn on the squad, making it better at withstanding enemy fire.

 

A unit of psykers can also contribute since they have 36" range on their blasts, and can increase their damage output with an increase in squad size. They face the disadvantage of having to test for their powers on LD 8, and for the potential of a perils of the warp wiping them out, but it's one of the few long-range high strength weapons we can use. Their blast is an assault weapon, so you may consider lumping them into the next category:

 

Midfield Firepower

Up to three plasma, melta, or flamer warriors are the core of this squad type. They can be supplemented with Jokaero for a heavy flamer template and for possible bonuses to the team, but are poor in close combat and expensive for a BS3 model.

The squad is usually bulked out with "ablative" warriors, who can be upgraded for some useful firepower with bolters (cheaper) or storm bolters (nearly double the price, but with vastly increased range/firepower on the move). Some advocate carapace armor which, while expensive, will greatly increase your troops' survivability against standard small arms fire (bolters/pulse rifles). As mentioned above, psykers can be useful in filling out the squad and adding more firepower while on the move. Uberschveinen's posts below provide a particularly detailed explanation on how he runs his midfield squads.

 

The form this unit can take is probably the most varied of the builds, thanks to the number of upgrade options warrior henchmen have. However, most agree that keeping these units fairly focused on a specific task is the way to go, instead of making them multi-purpose beasts. (Personally I'm curious to see if adding a DCA or two is enough to deter assaults, or if they're enough to win assaults with lesser combatants).

 

Close Combat Choppiness

These squads will have some combination of DCA's, arcoflagellants, banishers (with eviscerators), and crusaders, depending on your local metagame. The key to these is getting them into combat safely, which usually means a vehicle with an assault ramp - a Land Raider or Stormraven. However, the expense of these assault transports is a heavy burden to bear. If you're planning on running a midfield- or long-range gunline- based army, then keeping a CC unit in a rhino (perhaps x2) can be an effective deterrent or counter-charge unit without the costly expense of an assault vehicle. Chimeras are difficult to assault out of due to their single entry point, while rhinos have the option of side doors. Also remember the lack of frag grenades in these squads, which will make assaulting units entrenched in cover very costly.

 

A word of wisdom to those who prefer "death star" units - please read the comments below by number6 on why having TOO MUCH killiness can be a very bad thing in these squads. It may be better to dilute their offensive potential in order to gain more durability.

 

 

How many of the above squads you take for your 6 troop slots will largely determine how your army plays. An assault army might have 6 close combat units and no long range support, While a "balanced" henchman force might have 2 long range support squads, 3 midfield firepower squads, and a close combat squad standing guard, for instance. However many squads you take, it's probably best to purchase transports for them whether or not they plan on riding them. The long range firepower support offered by chimeras is considerable, and rhinos can become moving cover for your squads.

 

 

HQ

a.k.a. "Coteaz & friend"

 

Obviously our one required HQ is Inquisitor Coteaz, protector of the Formosa Sector. He's quite a nice HQ overall as he's fairly inexpensive and comes with special rules handy for any army. However, what's the best use of him on the table? Looking at his wargear and special rules, it seems to me that it'd be best to place him in a squad of servitors with heavy bolters or plasma cannons. Since we can have a maximum of 2 reliable servitor squads, and since Coteaz really isn't kitted out well for a close-combat role (no invul saves), it makes sense to me to have him babysit some servitors. With his "I've been expecting you" rule and Sanctuary psychic power, he'd make a pretty solid objective holder.

 

We now have the option of taking a second HQ Inquisitor, which in my opinion, you should always take. For a pittance (before upgrades), you get a 3 wound model that confers stubborn and LD10 to a unit. Now add to that the large variety of wargear you can choose from (depending if you make him Ordo Malleus, Hereticus, or Xenos) and you have a no-brainer. How you make use of him will then depend on your army's playstyle.

 

For a shooty army, I'd go with an Ordo Malleus inquisitor as they seem to have the best ranged weapon options - probably a hellrifle. Psycannons would be nice but you need to buy pricey terminator armor first. I wouldn't spend too much on wargear (with the possible exception of power armor) as he shouldn't be getting into close combat. If you think the squad may get charged, it may be worthwhile to add a couple of death cult assassins as bodyguards - they'll get I6 on defense while in cover. Add in some cheap un-upgraded ablative warriors and you're set to go.

 

For a mid-range or assault army, I'd prefer an Ordo Xenos inquisitor, mostly for access to rad and psychotroke grenades. The second HQ is our only source of those items, unless you choose to go with Techmarines. The rad grenades are the more reliable of the two, and will help DCA's, crusaders, and arco's score that many more wounds on their opponents. If you choose to make your inquisitor a psyker and give him hammerhand, your DCA's could be wounding T6 monstrous creatures on a roll of 4 - not too shabby. Again, power armor is definitely worth it to protect your three wounds.

 

 

ELITES

 

Assassins - it would seem that assassins were heavily revised in this edition, and I think the jury's still out on their overall effectiveness. They received an immense stat boost (WS + BS 8!!!), frag grenades, and limited FNP. However, their point costs went up and their special powers were revised - some for the better, and some for the worse. One interesting change is that you can now take more than one assassin - as long as there is only one of each type.

 

Vindicare - perhaps the new king of "cheez", thanks to the turbo-penetrator round, the bane of AV14 everywhere. He still allows you to place the wounds you like, though he can no longer shoot into close combat. An expensive selection, he can still only fire a maximum of 7 times in a game, so you must choose targets carefully.

 

Eversor - Without a 12" guaranteed charge range, it's much harder to surprise your foes and get him into close combat. To compensate, he has fleet & furious charge,

and can ride in a vehicle.

Now I wouldn't go and mount him in a Land Raider (though it'd be a pretty funny sight), but sparing a rhino to get him closer to the enemy isn't out of the question. Oh, and he doesn't blow up when he dies any more. :down:

 

Callidus - no longer gets into close combat on the turn she arrives. No polymorphine. I don't she'll be as popular as she once was.

 

Culexus - people still fantasize about packing him in a midst of psykers and getting a bazillion shots out of his gun, but remember that it only has a 12" range.

 

Of these selections, I'd most consider taking the Vindicare for his long-range threat, and the Eversor to assault enemy units hidden in cover (or as a general countercharge unit).

 

Techmarines - yes, they're Grey Knights. We're not suppose to use any here. I'll try not to. But they are a source of Orbital Strike Relays & special grenades. Using a Techmarine in an assault unit could free up your second inquisitor to control another long-range servitor squad. Their IC status, 2+ save, and lack of an invulnerable save make them as fragile as Coteaz in close combat thought (only a single wound but T4 to compensate). You could choose to model them as regular techmarines - you'll have to decide how religiously you want to adhere to the "no GK" theme.

 

Next: Fast Attack & Heavy Support.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Well, just on a background note, but this is something that's always bugged me, Radicalism doesn't necessarily involve using Chaos. Only Xanthism/Horusianism does that. All others just means that one or more of the major Puritan factions don't really like your methods. Hell, even Thorianism used to be considered one of the worst Radical doctrines, following the same ideas they do now, so Radical doesn't have to mean "no Grey Knights".

 

As to the actual tactics though, it seems pretty good. I gotta say, I'll assume either the plasma-spam or shooty lists are going to be the more popular ones. Hopefully we'll get the whole "true Troops or not" issue resolved soon.

[uberschveinen]

Radical doesn't mean a radical faction, since many Inquisitors don't play the factional game at all. Radicalism tends to refer to the employment of Chaos, only because that is a clear and specific line that, once crossed, almost inevitably means the Inquisitor will be damned in the end. You don't need to be a Radical to have a no-GK army, though, because most Inquisitors would probably rather not deal with the Grey Knights for every trivial problem, and often would have to act with a level of subtlety prior to striking that bringing a fistful of eight-foot-tall superhuman autist-savant-killing-machines onto a world just can't achieve.

 

There's also Puritan employers of Chaos, in the Oblationists. They believe that to associate with any aspect of the Dread Powers in even the most trivial respect brings utter damnation, but that there is no other way that mankind can be saved. It's a harsh but pragmatic stance, and ironically, one that actually makes them all the more dangerous to everything around them. A radical on the path to damnation has to take the time and care to sustain his delusions of righteousness all the while, which forbids him the use of particularly dangerous tools. But once an Oblationist takes that first step, they have nothing left to lose.

[number6]

In the DH codex you generally indicated radicalism by also taking Daemonhosts. Not always, but often, because that was really there was to indicate it. I noticed that nobody has even once considered taking daemonhosts in any army list I have yet seen.

 

Sadly, I agree with this implicit rating of the unit. They are so random (better hope you get the power you want when you want it!), and several of their powers are only good for laughs as opposed to utility, that I can't ever see employing them for any purpose whatsoever. Unless you happen to have 10 pts and a place to put one. OK then. Otherwise, leave them alone. So disappointing.

 

Tactically, I would recommend that all henchmen units in any primarily Inquisition list be specialized. Make it shooty, or make it assaulty. Don't try and do both. And don't unnecessarily bling out any of your Warriors, either. Give them the gun they need and nothing else. Don't bother with armour, or power fists, or anything like that. Just not worth it. They'll still die easy as popping a bubble, and you can never make them any good in assault or hope to protect them much when there.

[Chengar Qordath]

Radical doesn't mean a radical faction, since many Inquisitors don't play the factional game at all. Radicalism tends to refer to the employment of Chaos, only because that is a clear and specific line that, once crossed, almost inevitably means the Inquisitor will be damned in the end.

So Istvaanians, Recongregationalists, Xeno Hybris, Libracars, Oscurians, Polypsykana, Seculos Attendous don't exists/aren't Radicals? Be sure to tell that to GW, since that's not what every bit of official background ever has said.

 

Heck, Codex:GK has a very clear example of a non-Chaos Radical with Inquisitor Valeria.

[Red Lost Soldier]

Just a quick correction: Stormravens do not have frag assault launchers.

 

Also I was ruminating on my old radical army and bringing them into the new codex the other day. In particular I was commiserating on the absolute shafting the daemonhosts got. I had a lot of fun with them in the old codex. I re-read Eisenhorn (POSSIBLE SPOILERS COMING) a few months back, and remembered how simply powerful Cherubael was. It got me to thinking, where was the rules for this kind of creature? The kind of raw harnessed Chaos power in service to the Imperium, the things Xanthites dream about?

 

Then it hit me: the Dreadknight. That statline resembles a Chaos daemon bound into reality simliar to the way the Chaos Daemon Prince statline does. It simply laughs off small wounds from puny humans. Incredible speed? Personal teleporter. Powerful warp blasts decimating enemy troop formations? Heavy Incinerator/Heavy Psycannon. Raw power to rip armoured enemies apart? Doomfist/Great Sword.

 

I even had a model picked out, the new plastic Chaos Daemon Prince (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod860020a). Right proportions, sinister look, and what a centre piece to an army. Some fine cheap jewellery chain and inquisition symbols to represent the binding. Too bad living in NZ means I'm shafted by the upcoming GW policy changes, so I don't think this army is ever going to come into play.

 

I agree with number6, specialise your squads. Go combat or shooty for each individual squad. Versatility in selection is their strength, not versatility on the tabletop. Space Marines they are not. However you will need that mix of choices in your overall list to be successful. No Inquisition army is going to be successful without utilising both the combat units and the shooty units.

[Marid]

I think if you're going to include Land Raiders in the 'true' radicals, Rhinos belong there too. They were valid choices in the DH codex and are valid in the present WH codex. Arbites use them in the novels and Forgeworld has a Rhino variant, the Repressor, for them.

 

I also mourn the loss of Daemonhosts. The present incarnations are jokes. I doubt GW's play-testers even used them. Very sad really. :lol:

[maturin]

Thanks everyone for your comments so far. Just a few questions & clarifications for now...

 

 

I suspect I was using the "layman's" definition of Radical when I made the title - as in, no GK's. Without turning this into a discussion in the various branches of Inquisitional theology, do you have suggestions on An alternate, more specific subject heading?

 

@number6 and RLS - while I agree in general with making squads suited to specific goals, do you not see any utility in including DCA's with melta warriors? The ability to charge passengers after cracking a transport could be very useful, while not diluting the combat power of a unit too much.

 

I too lament the new Daemonhosts. I've been trying to figure out how to include them and it's just going to be for fluff at best. I like RLS's idea for proxying a dreadknight, though!

[number6]

@number6 and RLS - while I agree in general with making squads suited to specific goals, do you not see any utility in including DCA's with melta warriors? The ability to charge passengers after cracking a transport could be very useful, while not diluting the combat power of a unit too much.

Melta weapons are assault weapons, are they not? :lol: I've actually recommended the following build for an assaulty Henchmen unit:

 

3 Warriors w/meltas; 2 Banishers w/eviscerators; 3 DCAs, 4 Crusaders

[maturin]

Updated the first post with Long Range Henchmen options. I'm exhausted so will have to finish the other henchmen options tomorrow.

[BrotherWasted]

Last I checked, only Xanthite Inquisitors cannot make use of the Grey Knights. Would that not then make this guide incomplete?

[maturin]

Last I checked, only Xanthite Inquisitors cannot make use of the Grey Knights. Would that not then make this guide incomplete?

 

Grey Knights can't be everywhere in the imperium. The Inquisition must often rely on its own resources.

 

Besides, if we included GK's we'd be reviewing the entire codex! Please note the (revised) title of this Guide. ;)

[uberschveinen]

I've used a few different variants of Henchmen. Now, Henchmen units can do a lot of jobs, but because of their frailty you need to have them tailored to do a specific job. They're no multi-purpose Grey Knight squad. The jobs you can have them do are, generally, ranged firepower, close combat, and objective-holders.

 

My basic infantry unit is the Killteam, six Acolutes with Carapace, three with Plasma, three with Storm Bolters, and six Psykers, all tucked into a Chimera, which seems to me to be the most effective multi-role unit in the Henchmen list. In the Chimera the Killteam is basically a Leman Russ with added Plasma in case something gets close. Keep it at 36" to keep it alive, and fire on everything. When the Chimera goes down, the Acolytes start to work. 6 4+ saves is so I can allocate to them first, and that's what the 3 Stormbolter guys are for. They ought to get another Battlecannon round out of the Psykers, unless the enemy has managed to rush me badly. Once I lose them and lose enough Psykers that I can't beat the enemy's AP, the Psykers become extra wounds for the Plasmagunners, who are now basically Stormtroopers. They've still got the firepower to kill a MEQ or two before they die or flee. Otherwise, I get a Perils result early on, lose all my Psykers, and then it's a Plasma-squad in a Chimera. They can also do Objectives.

 

In more expensive games, I also run a Deathstar, the classic 11 DCAs and a Radhammer Inquisitor in a Stormraven. Hellishly expensive, but I need something to counteract Deathstar units. If it makes impact, there's only a handful of units in the game that won't be wiped out. Of course, as soon as they're exposed they die, but as long as they take out a decent unit first they're worth it, since the whole squad is 235 points. The Stormraven itself does gunship duties after delivery until it goes down, hopefully doing enough damage to have made it worthwhile. I've considered swapping the Stormraven for a Crusader, since that's more survivable and still a crucial assault vehicle, but it's slower, slightly more expensive, and not as good a gunship. I'd sub one in against guys I know are heavy on the antitank. I would never ever run a RAMMING SPEED squad without an Assault Vehicle, because they're just too fragile. Even an all-Crusader squad won't live long in the face of small-arms fire.

 

If Coteaz is by himself, or sitting with a Killteam, I always bring Servitors. The Servo-arm ones are bad, but the gun ones are very nice. 10 points for a Multimelta or Heavy Bolter on Carapace is well worthwhile, and they've got the Acolyte profile with Carapace so I can call them more ISTs modelwise. Sit the lot on the hardest objective, and ruin the other guy's last-turn Deep Strike plans.

 

Jokaero are too expensive to run. Just one isn't a reliable bonus, two is too much, andwhen you run them by themselves they will lose. Guard get away with the old 'more Lascannon than you have models' lists because they have ablative bodies out of every orifice and Orders to boot. If you have spare points and an all-IST squad, then grab one and hope for the +range result.

 

Banishers are, if you run an assaulty Henchmen list, useful pocket-rockets. Keep one around in case of Dreadnought, and ensure you have the wound-allocation results to keep him alive for a few turns.

 

Arcos are no dice against MEQ, where the DCAs are fantastic, but against unarmoured gents they're excellent. They're damned good at munching low-save units, but horridly vulnerable to firepower. FNP sucks unless paired with a save.

 

Crusaders add an unfeasible amount of toughness to a unit while in the majority. Get two or three for a combat Inquisitor. They also singlehandedly enable footslogger Henchmen lists, by fanning out in front as a living shield. They're too savey to be easy targets, and everything behind them gets 4+ cover. Too slow in combat to be of much use, but if you have a problem with Deathstar units, they're the tarpit from hell. They're also very useful for any objective-claimer unit.

 

Daemonhosts are utter bollocks. Not only are they random, but all but one of the random results is worse than another Henchman. Reknit turns them into crappy Arcos, Grasp makes them awful DCAs, Speed makes them even WORSE DCAs, Strength makes them worse Arcos, Torrent makes them worse Psykers unless you have a huge unit, and Unholy Gaze makes them worse Meltaservitors with the caveat that they can act alone and shoot twelve at once. They're just bad. Also an insult to the disastrous might a Daemonhost is meant to have, but that's another story.

 

Mystics are a Teleport Homer with a profile. Take one if needed, none if not.

 

Some people have been experimenting heavily with their units, but I prefer to just find a job, and see how you can complete that job. The Killteam satisfies the basic infantry requirement of some resilienc,e some mobility, and as much affordable firepower as you can get. Death Cult Rush is the most efficient raw killer out there, but I can see how a half-half split of DCAs and Crusaders could be advantageous. Not just for added toughness, but because their much crappier offensive profiel may just be enough to stop the DCAs from outright annihilating the enemy unit. Unlikely if you have a Radhammer, though. Eight Psykers in a Chimera is a handy way to add heavy firepower to a list often devoid of it. You basically get a 36" Vindicator that can move and shoot, for the same points cost as a real one. More fragile, though.

[maturin]

Thanks for the comments and experience, uberschveinen.

 

I wasn't sure if I wanted to get into a detailed analysis of the benefits & drawbacks of each henchman type, but I suppose it's unavoidable to some degree. Thanks for getting it started! A few comments/questions follow:

 

I like the idea of your combined psyker/plasma squad. Quite pricey, but sounds effective vs. MEQ's.

 

I'm hesitant to run psykers because of LD8. It means you won't get your shots off about 40% of the time (roughly), in addition to having to debark if the chimera is shaken/stunned. Do you simply treat this as a bonus shot and not worry if it doesn't go off? It seems like a lot of points to invest that could be use for more plasma/melta, etc. But as you say, we don't exactly have a lot of heavy support options.

 

Since the theme of our army seems to be randomness/unreliability, I'm not averse to using one or two Jokaero in a squad, if I have the points to spare. But I'd want to make sure they are equipped to take maximum advantage of the upgrades should I roll the range extension or rending results.

 

Banishers seem overcosted to me. For the price you could get 6 meltabombs, which would seem just as reliable a deterrent to dreadnoughts.

 

I've always thought of FNP on Arcos as the equivalent of a 4+ save. Slightly better, in fact, since you can save against AP4 and AP3 fire. I don't see any downsides to it, as opposed to an actual 4+, but I could be wrong...

 

I've previously read someone's thoughts on running an assault squad with DCA's and ablative acolytes, similar to your DCA/Crusader idea, but much less expensive. The acoyltes are enough to absorb initial return fire/punches and keep the DCA's alive for a second round of combat. I don't know which is better - quality vs quantity!

 

I'm still wrestling with how to organize the henchmen section, but let's keep the discussion rolling in the posts and get lots of opinions and experiences.

[DevianID]

One thing I want to mention about daemonhosts that seems to have been overlooked. By using the majority toughness rule, the fairly inexpensive daemonhost models can provide protection equal or greater than the more expensive crusaders. I would think small arms would be one of the greatest fears of henchmen squads, so t4 with a 5+ invuln is really good in some senarios.

 

Consider 5 DCA, 5 Daemonhosts, and a chimera, for 180 pts. This unit, if you roll a shooting power, can fire all 5 out of the top hatch, but the main purpose is assaults. 5 DCA and 3 Crusaders costs about the same as 5 DCA and 5 daemonhosts, but versus something like ork attacks or spacewolf counterattacks the daemonhosts reduce the incomming wounds plus have 2 extra wounds to get through before allocating to the DCA. Also, since the daemonhosts still have an invuln save you can still stop some powerweapon attacks. The non-shooting random powers are simply bonus, the daemonhosts would still be useful without them.

[uberschveinen]

The way I work Henchmen is to approach this force like a Special Forces unit. It's small, comes with extraordinarily potent firepower beyond all proportionality, hits hard and fast, and is utterly reliant on taking and holding the initiative. You can have some truly monstrous damage in the list, for relatively small prices. Psykers are basically ground-based Battlecannon at 60 points, or Demolisher at 80, and turn a Chimera into a super-Vindicator. That psychic test is a small price to pay for Assault with 36" range, effectively letting you hit from 42" or further, and more accuracy because of short scatter. I strongly advocate the use of Psykers because Henchmen armies need to kill the enemy exceptionally fast, or they will be cut apart with ease because of being exceptionally frail with small numbers. SInce you will go first much more often than usual because of Coteaz, you need to take advantage of that do negate your huge disadvantage to gunlines. Drop the Psykerbombs on Devastator-style units, and you only need a few to go off to seriously disrupt the enemy. Unless they have an absurd number of heavy weapons squads, or can somehow survive it reliably, you should deal enough damage to reduce their ability to kill you. It's basically a race between your anti-squad weapons and their anti-tank weapons. If you achieve ground superiority by taking out their antitank before all your Chimerae die, you've near to won the game and can only lose by making huge mistakes. If you don't, because you've been firing from 36" you shouldn't be wiped out when the tank pops. Giving your Acolytes Carapace gives them the survivability to effectively shield the Psykers, and the Storm Bolter/Plasma Gun combo makes them a deadly little nugget of firepower once you dig them in, and because you still have the Psykers, they can't be ignored. Just sit there doing as much damage as you can, all the way until they finally break or die. Or if you lose enough Psykers to make your AP too high to kill, the Psykers are now ablative for the Plasmagunners. That's the point of the Killteam; to be a deadly multipurpose unit that will never be truly out of the fight until it's been killed or flees below half-strength. Because they're so frail, you need to squeeze every last erg of killing efficiency out of them. They're only marginally more expensive than other configurations, but are deadlier than some and stay deadlier than most until wiped out.

 

As to possible augmentations, I wouldn't change them. The balance there is crucial to keeping them useful. As much as one Jokaero could help, because the unit's resilience comes from its mobility you effectively lose the heavy weapon, and because the main firepower comes from the Psykers half your unit gains nothing. I do accept that the results could be excellent, that the +save or +Inv results would help all your unit greatly, and that the +range result would be fantastic since it lets you shoot your IST weapons from Psyker range, but they're just not worth the points to do so, sadly. Maybe if you weren't using a chimera, but you would always be using a Chimera since they are the only survivability your force has.

 

The alternative unit is the Fireteam, involving just ISTs, with no Psykers. While effective, and tougher than a Killteam, it just can't do as much damage as a Psyker unit. Unless you are genuinely convinced you can kill enough with your other choices, I'd not use them. But if you do, and the best reason to do so is if you can't get the Chimera the Psykers need to survive, they are a decent choice in the alternative. 7 ISTs with Storm Bolters gives you uncanny anti-infantry firepower beyond even Space Marine squads on the cheap, and crucially, lets you shoot while move and beyond rapid fire range. Your 3 Plasma Guns give you the extra kick against Marines. If the enemy stays back to shoot at one-shot range, use your Plasma at one shot and keep them busy with the Storm Bolters. If they rush you, then keep moving back, and forget the Plasma. Only once you lose maybe 3-4 Storm Bolters is it worthwhile playing for the Plasma rapid-fire, because at that stage the unit is an obvious target and won't live long anyway. The Carapace is crucial because it gives you some survivability withotu cover, and because you need to keep moving, cover is a luxury you won't always have. You will want one Jokaero, because all of the results are fantastic for you. Not two, because then you have to stand still to use their heavy shots or have wasted much points. The +Sv and +Inv results are both excellent, because they make your guys even tougher and less reliant on cover. +Range makes your guys able to dominate any other infantry unit, by staying at 36" range and constantly firing and moving. Rending turns your guys into unholy killers to the point that your Plasma Guns are going to be somewhat redundant. Another consideration is that if you will have an Inquisitor in the unit, take three Servitors. It's not even a question. 10 point Heavy Bolters with IST profiles is too good to pass up. You'll want Heavy Bolters if you have no Chimera, because nobody's dumb enough to move towards Multi-Meltas. But for this unit, your end-of-the-day consideration is that they are only resilient against small-arms. If the enemy turns their heavies against them they will crumple, even if you roll the +Inv result. They are good for taking and holding, but unless you have enough anti-special firepower elsewhere, you'll lose. I don't know where you'll get anti-special firepower in this list without Psykers.

 

There is also the high-bodies method, of taking Guardsmen with Storm Bolters. This idea has the substantial and possibly crippling weakness that as of now it is unclear if your Coteaz choices use up Troops slots. If they do, you cannot field enough bodies to gain survivability in numbers. It's just the way this army is. Guard get away with it because of Platoons. Now IF the inevitable FAQ rules towards Troops that don't use slots, hese guys will be a real plausible option. 11 Storm Bolters and one Jokaero gives you a very potent unit for just 112 points, as long as you use their 24" range to keep them the hell away from rapid-fire. This is the one time you can actually have enough bodies to play Henchmen armies like a more standard force. They don't play like IG, though, and the lack of Orders may not entirely make up for their much better wargear. Still, 110 Storm Bolters in 1500 points and still having the room for anti-tank choices will make some armies just hate you, like Tyranids. The use of each unit will depend on your Jokaero roll. None, and you should park them in cover as a speedbump. Range, and you can use them to harass and wear down enemy rapid-fire weapons by exploiting their range and Assault weapons. Rending, and they become your Pocket Rockets to kill off tough enemies through weight of fire. Either +Sv or +Inv and you can use them in the open, or to take objectives. But at the same time, if the no-limit rule is in place, there are more bastardly options. Personally, I'd just take as many units of 6 Psykers as possible, and hope you don't get so unlucky as to go second. If you do go first, you have 23 Battlecannon to fire. Even if you get so unlucky that half of your shots fail, there will be so few survivors that they cannot kill your Psykers fast enough. Hell, spend EVERYTHING on Psykers, and go all the way. And then pray they aren't doing a Deep Strike attack. Even indidivudal Deep Strikers can't kill enough Psykers to survive your retaliation. Of course, keep in mind that the PSYKERS EVERYWHERE list will make you universally hated pretty fast.

 

As for combat units, you have two choices. The half-DCA half-Crusader with a Radhammer Inquisitor just works. Give them something with an Assault ramp; Stormraven if you have the firepower to kill their anti-vehicle firepower first, Land Raider Crusader if you don't. They're cheaper than the usual Deathstar, but they are so good at their job it's worth it. Nothing can meaningfully resist the first round of combat against them, with maybe three exceptions, and the few survivors will usually just bounce off the Crusaders. Positioning is crucial with them, because of their frailty. Use the transport to block, as much as you can, the enemy's LoS. The LRC is better for this by leagues, because of its offensive durability. The Crusaders will let your DCA survive a squad or two of shooting, and so get back in the vehicle for their next target. If you get hugely lucky they will leave survivors, and so you'll be able to finish them off in the other guy's turn and get right back in the transport. Targeting is crucial with these guys, because of the high investment they represent. Aim them for I5 Deathstars or lower first, then Devastator-type squads. Go for high value afterwards. I6 Deathstars target only if you have no other means of killing them. Don't even bother with I7 or better.

 

The other choice is Arcos. They're unnaturally good against Orks, Tyranids, and IG. However, since their natural targets are cheap, you can't invest an Assault Ramp transport into them. Against IG, you could maybe try Chimerae and use the tank to block LoS, but that's risky. Their best use is for :cusser-assault. Park them in cover in front of your shooting units, and they're just an arrant bastard to kill. Cover saves and FNP together are just mean. They will utterly desecrate anything without a good armour save they attack, even without an Inquisitor. If you're a huge bastard, or playing against Tyranids with enough Monstrous Creatures to want Force Weapons, add a Radhammer Inquisitor. You won't even need the force weapon most of the time, as they get 55 effective-S7 attacks. Frankly, anything that can survives that deserves to kill them.

 

I'm hesitant to run psykers because of LD8. It means you won't get your shots off about 40% of the time (roughly), in addition to having to debark if the chimera is shaken/stunned. Do you simply treat this as a bonus shot and not worry if it doesn't go off? It seems like a lot of points to invest that could be use for more plasma/melta, etc. But as you say, we don't exactly have a lot of heavy support options.

 

That's the way it is. We have an extremely frail army. Our ONLY defense is a brutal offense, and Psykers supply that in droves.

 

Banishers seem overcosted to me. For the price you could get 6 meltabombs, which would seem just as reliable a deterrent to dreadnoughts.

 

If you've got Acolytes. I don't. I liek my specialists to be... well, specialised. If you let your Fireteams or Killteams get assaulted by a Dreadnought, you have already made a catastrophic mistake.

 

I've always thought of FNP on Arcos as the equivalent of a 4+ save. Slightly better, in fact, since you can save against AP4 and AP3 fire. I don't see any downsides to it, as opposed to an actual 4+, but I could be wrong...

 

And you also lose it to high-strength shots, even with low AP. It's not that it's bad, it's just that it annoys me, thematic or not.

 

I've previously read someone's thoughts on running an assault squad with DCA's and ablative acolytes, similar to your DCA/Crusader idea, but much less expensive. The acoyltes are enough to absorb initial return fire/punches and keep the DCA's alive for a second round of combat. I don't know which is better - quality vs quantity!

 

Well, given that the Death Cult Assassins will die instantly the moment they are left unsupervised in the open, you want quality. Why? Because the Assault Ramp vehicles are biblically expensive. You might as well specialise, then, and use the Crusaders to get better value out of the unit, and roll with a Radhammer Inquisitor, or just the 40-point Rad and throw in Coteaz to give him a job. Besides, unless the FAQ rules in favour of Henchmen spam, you're not going to be able to run the numbers to obscure through mass of bodies. Your Acolytes will give no protection in combat, because your DCAs should be eating the face of anything they're in combat with before they even hit back, and are far too frail to protect them from the whoops-we-killed-the-whole-squad-our-turn problem. Since they're such a massive threat that everything in the enemy army will gun for them, you will want Crusaders for their resilience, as at least that way you will tie up a lot of their shooting and keep your other boys alive.

 

One thing I want to mention about daemonhosts that seems to have been overlooked. By using the majority toughness rule, the fairly inexpensive daemonhost models can provide protection equal or greater than the more expensive crusaders. I would think small arms would be one of the greatest fears of henchmen squads, so t4 with a 5+ invuln is really good in some senarios.

 

Consider 5 DCA, 5 Daemonhosts, and a chimera, for 180 pts. This unit, if you roll a shooting power, can fire all 5 out of the top hatch, but the main purpose is assaults. 5 DCA and 3 Crusaders costs about the same as 5 DCA and 5 daemonhosts, but versus something like ork attacks or spacewolf counterattacks the daemonhosts reduce the incomming wounds plus have 2 extra wounds to get through before allocating to the DCA. Also, since the daemonhosts still have an invuln save you can still stop some powerweapon attacks. The non-shooting random powers are simply bonus, the daemonhosts would still be useful without them.

 

But they still suck. With one exception, their powers make them actively worse than existing Henchmen selections, and completely change their role. If they're in a shooting unit, they're going to be not shooting most of the time, and even when they are, they'll be worse than Psykers or Heavy Bolter Servitors for the same price. If they're in a combat unit, EVERY possible result is worse than another unit. All the shooting is redundant, because the only Assault Ramp vehicles have no slots and using DCAs without Assault Ramp is just not going to work, ever. The Power Weapon choice sucks heinously compared to DCAs. The Fleet result is ALWAYS useless unless you are running pure foot-based Daemonhosts, in which case what the hell, man. They are so bad that even if you could choose the power they'd only be okay, and you can't choose the power. A unit that has an 84% chance of being worse than another choice in a shooting role, and a 100% chance of being worse than another choice in a combat role, is just alarmingly crap.

 

And DCAs in a non-Assault Ramp vehicle is just feeding your enemy kills.

 

I'm still wrestling with how to organize the henchmen section, but let's keep the discussion rolling in the posts and get lots of opinions and experiences.

 

Organise them by role, since that's how you categorise them for a list. Ranged firepower for things like Killteams and Fireteams with gun Servitors. Utility for things that mostly claim objectives, like Aco-spam or Fireteams, or a nugget of Crusaders for squatting on Objectives. Assault utility for DCA/Crusader teams with Radhammer. Have a high-value, mid-value, low-value designation to specify whether it's going for an elite low-count force, a tough but not-that-potent force relying on vehicles, or a Henchman spam list, respectively. Put a Henchman-spam designator on anythign that only works if Henchman spam is possible until sucha time as we know if it is or is not for sure.

[number6]

Banishers seem overcosted to me. For the price you could get 6 meltabombs, which would seem just as reliable a deterrent to dreadnoughts.

For starters, you don't ever take just 1 Banisher. A single attack is not reliable enough. You take two! So there's more points invested! :)

 

However, they're totally worth it. It's not just for anti-vehicle assault, though that is absolutely vital. You simply have to have a way to damage walkers ... and Monstrous Creatures! They also let you wound most infantry targets on 2s. MBs don't help you there in either of these common cases. Banishers are your only source of S6+ damage in henchmen. You can't build a quality assault unit without taking at least two of them. Not only do they increase your efficacy in assaults of all kinds, they also help with wound allocation shenanigans.

 

I've previously read someone's thoughts on running an assault squad with DCA's and ablative acolytes, similar to your DCA/Crusader idea, but much less expensive. The acoyltes are enough to absorb initial return fire/punches and keep the DCA's alive for a second round of combat. I don't know which is better - quality vs quantity!

This isn't an either-or proposition. The problem with the virtually 100% DCA assault unit is that it is either too good or totally useless. Against it's preferred target -- infantry -- it simply destroys the target and is then exposed to getting shot off the table with simple torrents of weak anti-infantry firepower. What a waste of 200+ points! And if it's not up against it's preferred target -- like, say, a Dreadnought -- then it just gets destroyed in assault! How embarrassing!

 

You want to build a unit that isn't so good that it wipes out its enemy on the turn you charge. You want it to get stuck and and significantly weaken the unit, but not wipe it out. Thus giving you excellent odds of wiping it in your opponent's turn instead, giving you a consolidate and possible charge on your turn. Taking too many DCAs makes this all but impossible.

 

You can't build a useful henchmen assault unit without at least two banishers and several Crusaders. Crusaders soak up wounds that would otherwise cripple the unit and Banishers give you fearsome, guaranteed wounds on whatever you're up against. Mix in other models -- DCAs, too, of course -- to suit your needs and points allowance.

[maturin]

A bit more progress today...

 

Non-assault ramp DCA's (I'm thinking out of Rhinos) should work, as long as the enemy is coming to you. In other words, if you're using them as a counter-assault unit. I run Vanguard Vets and Assault Marines out of Rhinos all the time, and it works surprisingly well.

 

Also, getting the enemy to charge you is one way around not having assault grenades - you may lose an extra attack but you'll keep your I6...

[maturin]

Finally got some time to work on this - updated again with HQ and Elites. Almost there!

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Assassins have fleet now, so Eversors may be able to assault 18 inches still, I just wouldn't rely on it.

[maturin]

Noted & fixed - thanks, Freman.

[DevianID]

uberschvein, while you posted some good info, you failed to address the main point of the unit I mentioned (5 DCA and 5 Daemonhosts), namely that the majority toughness is 4 without needing attached characters. You are correct that 'host powers suck and are unreliable, and that other units can duplicate a host power. That said, I would recommend 'hosts even if they didnt have any powers, simply for the t4 majority with a decent save without mindlock. Also, DCA without an assault ramp are just fine, as you still have a 14.5 inch charge range from the chimera and the goal is counterassault. The unit I mentioned is a line unit, not an assault or shooty unit, though it can certainly assault and 1/3rd of the time it shoots very well.

[Brother Tual]

having TOO MUCH killiness can be a very bad thing

 

I would like to discuss this 'point'. I dont think it is EVER a bad thing.

 

I understand the ideals behind this advice but I couldnt disagree more.

 

The issue (as presented by N6) of breaking combat on the turn it is initiated is a concern and I understand this however it is risky to pretend to be able to predict the timing of the resolution and end of combat with the intention of prolonging it.

 

Given the above desired unit combinations (I will base this discussion on 5 DCA + 5 Crusaders for simplicity) I ask the following:

 

Relative to destroying MEQ, how does the above unit prolong combat? Each DCA has 4 attacks on the charge (and you should always have the charge) with the very real likelyhood of destroying a majority (7/10) at I6. The return attacks will be 3 or 4 in total with the likelyhood of 1 to 2 return wounds. Given the crusaders then have to attack with powerweapons after this and will destroy the rest. How is this any different to hitting the unit with 40 attacks and 0 return wounds?

 

IF any enemy models remained the negative LD modifier would reduce the required LD check to a snake eyes. With the likelyhood of a fail an intiative check (being marines) would also likely fail (I6 v I4) resulting in 5 or 6 saves (likely to remove the remaining 1 to 2 models) Again, how is this different to destroying the unit outright?

 

If the enemy passes the I check and flees, you are again isolated just the same as destroying the enemy HOWEVER 2 or 3 AUTOMATICALLY regrouping members of a scoring unit are still in play (an probably adding to the salvo you are about to receive). I would much rather take these extra models off the board in the first instance.

 

Even if you have some how managed to remain in combat without taking significant return losses (because being locked in combat affords the enemy the ability to strike back) how can you preach to predict the exact timing that this combat will break or end? There are simply too many variables. It also allows the enemy to respond to the locked combat by adding additional resources to the combat (a prefect example is a dread) that you may have otherwise been able to move away from or engaged in a more desireable position (closer to your own hammer combat troops for example).

 

Given TEQ (5 models) you are going to destroy them all. They will die the same as MEQ with only a 5++ being the difference.

 

Given large mobs you want to be destroying over 20+ models to avoid being locked in a fearless combat where you are likely to die to the return volume as anymore than 15 remaining bodies will apply more attacks to the combat than your unit does in the first instance. You need a full DCA unit to ensure this. A half half unit wont cut it.

 

The argument that a 3++ will 'save' the DCA is borderline rediculous. After 5 wounding hits (T3 remember) you HAVE to allocate onto the DCA with 1 wound being allocated on each DCA BEFORE a second can be 'soaked' into the 3++. The death of each DCA will be surely felt as (given only 5 are in the unit) each DCA represents 20% of the STR4 combat output. The only time the 3++ comes into play as a 'unit' saver is when taking low volume hits (a rouge lascannon shot for example) however this is not going to cripple a full DCA unit anyway.

 

The above is the same when taking shooting attacks AFTER you have destroyed the enemy unit in combat or at any other time. After 5 wounding hits the rest go onto DCA. You cannot avoid this. After this, what is the point of having 4 Crusaders and 1 DCA? I would rather have 4 DCA or even only 3 (from a full squad) remaining than a gimped crusader unit.

 

I think it is risky, at best, to add crusaders to your DCA in the hope of prolonging combats. Kill them all with as much overkill as possible and make the enemy over react. Make it HIS problem. Not yours. Predicting combat is your problem. What to do with a unit wiping out full units in one phase is my enemy's problem. Take out the quess work and make the demise of your enemy a sure thing. Simple.

[maturin]

Now that's quite an analysis - thanks for that take on DCA's, Brother Tual. I've had my doubts about crusaders adding to unit survivability, but you've put it in clearly stated terms.

 

I'd like to know what you think about adding base warrior acolytes instead as ablative wounds, to keep points costs lower in smaller games (1500 and under). You can get almost 4 acolytes for the price of a crusader or DCA - and while a unit of 6 DCA/6acolytes isn't nearly as killy as a unit of 12 DCA's, it's also considerably cheaper, and retains close to 100% of its killing potential vs MEQ's at half strength. A unit of DCA's at 50% strength, however, necessarily loses 50% of its killy-power.

 

On a separate topic, you're right that you can't predict the outcome of combats, but shouldn't we try to generate our own luck and get the odds to stay locked in combat for 2 turns as much as possible? Yes, the enemy may dedicate more units to the CC but that'll be up to us as tacticians to prevent. And if they charge you the lack of grenades isn't as big of a deal...

 

(I'll finish this guide....someday when I get some time!)

[Brother Tual]

A unit of DCA's at 50% strength, however, necessarily loses 50% of its killy-power.

When a unit of full DCA is reduced to 50% strength from the original numbers, it looses 50% of its original output but when at 50% output it equals 100% of a mixed unit I dont see the benefit in employing 'ablative' wounds for this reason alone.

 

Adding acolytes to fill out the unit is a matter for yourself. They are cheaper than DCA and die the same with a 5++ being the only real difference. Keep in mind all henchmen are LD 8 with morale check coming in at 25% casualties from shooting. Its the same with crusaders. If you want them, take them. You are not going to save your DCA by adding other models to the unit. If something is going to wipe a full unit of DCA's in shooting it is going to wipe them out regardless of how many other models you mix into the unit for whatever reason.

 

Generating luck is impossible. Manufacturing combat results is near impossible. There are soo many variables even before you factor in the dice. How many models in the enemy unit? do they have invul saves? are they fearless? high or low LD? what other units are nearby? add in the dice to this equation and you have no hope of predicting the outcome. The balance is too fine. In order to kill a unit over two phases you need to kill roughly 75% in the opening phase. If you kill any less you run the risk that you wont kill the enemy in the following phase. If you kill too many you in the opening phase you run the risk of breaking the combat instantly. Even with a 75% enemy model kill rate you run the risk of blowing out the combat resolution and breaking combat anyway. If you keep the combat resolution more even you have to loose models yourself. If you are aiming to reduce your models in combat, you may as well loose them to shooting in a later turn and force the enemy to counter and commit to the task.