Ghanj Rho Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Not sure if this is the right area for this thread; a moderator should feel free to move it if this is the wrong place. I am working on an IA for a homebrew Chapter, and want to go ahead and pitch some ideas out for comment. I am fairly new to 40k, and want to make sure that my chapter is 1) realistic, and 2) not too "special" The chapter I am working on is an amalgam of 6 chapters, all of which suffered heavy casualties during a battle for an STC fragment. Each suffered ~80% casualties, disporportionatly affecting the more inexperianced troops. The intense casualties resulted in around 100 Marines being interred in Dreadnought sarcophagi. With Dreanoughts providing most of the line-level fire support, the chapter routinely deploys it's Predators en masse. Said Predators carry Land Raider-level armament, the plans for which were found in the STC fragment the Chapter was born fighting for. The fragment also contained ploans for the Storm Raven gunship, and the interplay between Storm Raven and Apex Predator forms the cornerstone of Cobalt Wing assault plans. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230172-homebrew-ia-help/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Bah, double posted. Not done that before. My later post actually has all the points I wanted to make in it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230172-homebrew-ia-help/#findComment-2764577 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Sadly failed on 1) and 2) :D It sounds cool, but is completely unfeasible. A chapter wouldn't be formed from the remnants of 6 chapters. The 6 chapters may join forces temporarily and as six individiual forces the idea is sound, but they wouldn't be formed into a single chapter. The STC for the stormraven has already been found by the Blood Angels and so far hasn't been shared beyond the GK's. Dreadnoughts are rare and revered. There is no way a chapter would be able to get their hands on 100 and even less way they'd use them as line troops - they are simply too valuable. 100 suits of terminator armour is rare enough, nevermind dreadnoughts. The Ultramarines, the bestest ever chapter ever, only have 26 and most chapters will likely have less than that. If you wanted to simply paint up six different 1000 point armies or something and throw them together as a result of casualties suffered on campaign together then that is absolutely kosher and you can field as many or as little of things as you want, but they have to be drawn from the same codex to be non apocalypse legal. But if chapter 1 is A and chapter 2 is B etc then A+B+C+D+E+F doesn't ever = Y. A always = A, B always = B. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230172-homebrew-ia-help/#findComment-2764578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Not sure if this is the right area for this thread; a moderator should feel free to move it if this is the wrong place. Welcome to the Right Place. ;) Otherwise known as the Liber. The usual method here is to criticise bad ideas into the ground, leaving room for the good ideas to grow, flourish and become mighty. So, please bear in mind the following is not intended as any form of attack on you personally, only on ideas I feel are disagreeable. I am working on an IA for a homebrew Chapter, and want to go ahead and pitch some ideas out for comment. I am fairly new to 40k, and want to make sure that my chapter is 1) realistic, and 2) not too "special" Good start. The chapter I am working on is an amalgam of 6 chapters, all of which suffered heavy casualties during a battle for an STC fragment. Each suffered ~80% casualties, disporportionatly affecting the more inexperianced troops. The intense casualties resulted in around 100 Marines being interred in Dreadnought sarcophagi. With Dreanoughts providing most of the line-level fire support, the chapter routinely deploys it's Predators en masse. Said Predators carry Land Raider-level armament, the plans for which were found in the STC fragment the Chapter was born fighting for. The fragment also contained ploans for the Storm Raven gunship, and the interplay between Storm Raven and Apex Predator forms the cornerstone of Cobalt Wing assault plans. Er.... what? If you want realistic or not 'special', you basically need to scrap all of that. Realistic Chapters don't have a hundred dreadnoughts. They don't find-and-keep suped-up predators. (Except the BA for some reason, but that's always been a facepalm moment.) And they're not formed of six amalgamated Chapters. They're only ever created in one of the 26 foundings, by the High Lords of Terra. And not from remnants of dying Chapters. I'd advise you to read the DIY guide stickied at the top of the forum, and the mysterious Octaguide if you can find it, because they will most certainly put you on the right path for a non-'special' Chapter. :D That said, I applaud your imagination. ;) It's a powerful tool, and if set on the right path, will serve you well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230172-homebrew-ia-help/#findComment-2764579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghanj Rho Posted May 20, 2011 Author Share Posted May 20, 2011 Thanks for the feedback, I admit I failed big time at my stated goals. For some of the addressed points Dreadnoughts just seem cool to me, and I've always wanted to make a Dread-based chapter. Was 100 too many? yes. but any way it could have gone, there would have been an above-average number of Dreads. I am aware that the Storm Raven STC was found by the BA/GKs, finding it again was an attempt to have my chapter use it. It seemed more likely than the BAs sharing. To shift the goalposts some, would there be any objection to a chapter based around Dreads and SRs? What would be a reasonable number of Dreads for a Dread-based chapter? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230172-homebrew-ia-help/#findComment-2764620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERZERKER! Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 The goals were probably silly anyway... Dont take offence at that, i just mean that if you are making a homebrew chapter, you obviously want it to be special and unique or you would simply use C: SM. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this, as long as you dont decide they're the God Emperors personal bodyguard, who are all invincible, carry lascannon pistols and relic blades that count as seismic hammers... etc etc. So, the point is, it needs to be believable.. but they can still stand out, and in a fictional universe most things are possible. As for your ideas, i think it might be better to go for a single dying chapter. This would give you pretense for the dreads.. they employ an above average number to preserve their experienced warriors. However, remember that infantry are the backbone of any space marine force. You might consider developing some rules for a variant dread that's fairly unique, have a look around the Homegrown rules section for ideas. Maybe it's that the chapter has found an STC on dreads?? My DIY chapter, for instance, mounts their thunderfire artillery on dread chassis (WIP on some rules for this, happy to share when it's done). I agree, dreads are awesome. If you're gonna do this, though, leave the preds as they are, as obviously that would be a bit too much. As for the Stormraven, i'm sure a good enough relationship with the Ad-mech could bag you 3 or 4. I would imagine they have the STC, as the blood angels will likely have 'handed it in', so to speak. For they grey knights to have it too, they must have. I'm not really sure how the templates work, but i think they're unique. On a final note, people can't OBJECT to your ideas... you can ask what people think, but at the end of the day, it's up to you. Do what you want. Thats what it's all about :D . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230172-homebrew-ia-help/#findComment-2764686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Why? Which would seem like a totally irrelevant point - well to a newcomer - if I just left it at that.. So I'll add that there is nothing more mighty or important than the Almighty Why? Also, people can object to your ideas; see "The world is round" for a reference. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230172-homebrew-ia-help/#findComment-2764714 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERZERKER! Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Why what?? And i mean, people can't really object to what you want to do with your army... as it's yours. People can only give an opinion. Sorry, ignore the why what. I understand. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230172-homebrew-ia-help/#findComment-2764721 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Why what?? Why anything? Why everything? Everything is subject to why; why did that Company die to a man? Why does the Chapter only have nine Comapnies? Why do they worship the Emperor? Why do they paint their armour pink like girly-men? (Examples) And i mean, people can't really object to what you want to do with your army... as it's yours. People can only give an opinion. Pedant ahoy... People can object to anything, such is the nature of Man, it's whether you listen to them or not that is you choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230172-homebrew-ia-help/#findComment-2764724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERZERKER! Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Haha, i got what you meant by why just as you posted... i thought you were asking me. Obviously, justification is the key to believability! And i see what you mean. I tend to think of an objection as a more significant thing that it is. I think it is better to ask for criticism, because to me if someone objects it implies that I am impacting on them, which might be unfair. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230172-homebrew-ia-help/#findComment-2764728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Obviously, justification is the key to believability! True to a degree, but good writing can provide an abundance of help. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230172-homebrew-ia-help/#findComment-2764733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERZERKER! Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 On track with the thread, i think the Ad-mech (in Games Workshop's infinite wisdom) are considering allowing all chapters to use Stormraven anyway, so that would be that problem solved. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230172-homebrew-ia-help/#findComment-2764738 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 I am aware that the Storm Raven STC was found by the BA/GKs, finding it again was an attempt to have my chapter use it. It seemed more likely than the BAs sharing. You could make your Chapter a BA successor - they'd get the same equipment, I think. I'm not sure why, since the BA don't seem to share it with other Chapters, but it's considered acceptable for DIY BA-types to carry the same cool gear. ^_^ Other than that, I'm not really sure the best way to get around the current Stormraven limitations. To shift the goalposts some, would there be any objection to a chapter based around Dreads and SRs? What would be a reasonable number of Dreads for a Dread-based chapter? My advice in this matter is to never use numbers. Just say things like 'the Beige Templars* have an above-average number of Dreadnoughts' or 'their numbers contain a number of dreadnoughts higher than usual amongst Codex Chapters.' *Replace Beige Templars with your chapter, obviously. You don't need to write about one of mine. As far as basing Chapters around equipment - it's not really the best idea ever. It can be done, (my Red Lords started out as just 'more whirlwinds than usual') but I've learned that a Chapter's IA should be about their character, and personality, more than what types of vehicle they use. So, some questions that will help you establish your Chapter's personality. What is an average marine from your Chapter like? Are they honourable, with an emphasis on discipline? Are they brutal and efficient, willing to pay any price to succeed in their mission? Are they feral and wild, always eager to fight? Are they ritualistic, superstitious and solemn, placing great importance on the maintenance and repair of their hallowed weapons and armour? Just a few ideas thrown in there, too. For fun. :P Does your Chapter have a particularly hated enemy, and if so, why? What's their take on the Emperor and the Primarch they descended from? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230172-homebrew-ia-help/#findComment-2764742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 You forgot the "what color socks do they wear?" question :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230172-homebrew-ia-help/#findComment-2764800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 You forgot the "what color socks do they wear?" question ;) That's because I expect them to wear Codex approved sock colours - left sock dentoes company, right sock denotes squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230172-homebrew-ia-help/#findComment-2764856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Justification, actually, isn't the key to believability. I used to justify my chapters doing things. Now I write my chapters so them having those things is a natural result of my chapter being who they are. A much better way to go about things, I think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230172-homebrew-ia-help/#findComment-2764872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuk dred Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 I read from the start, didnt go through all of the replies, but i read enough to have a giggle. If you dont want your chapter to be too special than NO WAY could it have 100 dreads! thats crazy! a normal chapter has maybe a dozen or so. You should just think how many you can realistically feild in a battle. If you dont play apocalypse i think BA have the most available. Following the army list there you can feild 11 by my count, but then you would have no objective-capturing troops in your army. How about merely saying that they field dreads frequently, more than other chapters? much easier to justify :( im working on writing an IA myself, if you keep posting here your going to get feedback and it will help you go the right direction. If you want to check mine its called Glorious falcons, although i'll probably change that soon. Good luck Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230172-homebrew-ia-help/#findComment-2766574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaren Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 So you want lots of Dreads, the Stormraven, and Souped Up Predators? The immediate problem is the contradictory nature of these requests. You would need to be on good terms with the AM to get your hands on the Dread chassis and sarcophagi that you need, which pretty much rules out being Blood Angels, which you would need to get the Stormraven and the Proto-SoupedUpPredator. I think you should narrow your basic frame down to 1-2 ideas that mesh well together, and then sally forth to slay the Almighty Why. If they have lots of Dreads, Why do they have lots? If they have SoupedUpPredators, Why do they have them? If they have the Stormraven, Why do they have it? If they are an amalgamation of 6 Chapters(Not Recommended by ANY means), Why are they like that? Why do they get out of bed in the morning? Why do they shoot aliens in the face? Why do they hack up demons? Why do they cut down traitors? Why do they fight the way they do? Why do they think the way they do? Why do they do they do all the things they do? Why? Why? Why? It might seem a bit a bit rude, or that we are smashing you over the head with the word Why, but its importance to this forum can NOT be overestimated. No one of your ideas as a base, is terribly bad (except the Chapter combining, it is indefensible). They just need refinement. Instead of 100 Dreadnoughts, why not 20? Instead of lots of powerful Predators, why not lots of Land Raiders? Instead of lots of Stormravens, why not Thunderhawks? Take the square peg ideas you have, and round them down to fit in the round hole of the 40k Universe. Keep the concepts, trim the excess. Hope that helps and I hope you enjoy a long and pleasant stay at the Liber. Just watch out for Octavulg and Ace, they've been here so long they are starting to merge with our furniture, makes em crotchety in their old age :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230172-homebrew-ia-help/#findComment-2766723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Or alternatively herds you towards Blood Angels and their ilk... who appear to have no problems with their general relations with the Ad Mech. Are the Blood Angels noted for their lack of equipment like the Minotaurs? Nope... So the Ad Mech a repeeved, but not to the point that they renege on their obligations to supply the BA's. As for numbers of Dreads - the Space Wolves have hundreds (note the plural there). They're mostly sleeping in the vaults of the Fang though. There is no reason why any chapter might have 30+ Dreadnoughts, but its highly unlikely that there would be that many awake and active at any one time. For highly unlikely - think chapters imminient extinctino or absollute back to the wall fighting, not your general run of the mill massively outnumbered. They're not going to panic and run to the Dreadnoughts every five minutes is what I mean. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230172-homebrew-ia-help/#findComment-2770788 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 As for numbers of Dreads - the Space Wolves have hundreds (note the plural there). They're mostly sleeping in the vaults of the Fang though. No sure mate... Althought there are as many as a hundred or more Dreadnoughts beneath the Fang,... ~ C:SW, pg. 13. The Space Wolves are exception in this, though. Because they either haven't been mauled in Heresy and didn't spawn 20+ successors. There is no reason why any chapter might have 30+ Dreadnoughts, but its highly unlikely that there would be that many awake and active at any one time. There is... The art of creation of Dreadnought sarcophagus is all but lost, only the most skilled of Artisans are capable of production of these revered chasis. + the good 'ole *Aspire to Glory* trait. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230172-homebrew-ia-help/#findComment-2771470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 yes, but any given chapter has the potential to have a fair number of dreadnoughts. While dreadnoughts in general are rare, some chapters will have more than others and if the OP wants his chapter to be one of those, then thats not necessarily a problem. Its only a problem if he wants to have 20-30 dreadnoughts running around all the time, every time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230172-homebrew-ia-help/#findComment-2771993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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