Trial Chaos BFG fleet [1000]

[minigun762]

On 45cm weapon batteries: Theyre good. Sure, they wont help much in your initial engagement, but after that things get more interesting, circling broadsides, changing targets mid phase cause a cruiser just hulked twice as fast as you thought it would... chasing eldar and dark eldar... outranging imperials.....

 

Just through theorycrafting, I feel like there is a big difference between 30cm and 45cm weapons because the standard weapon range is 30cm and the majority of ships move less then 30cm a turn. That being said, do you find the 60cm weapons to be that much more potent or is it more of a nice bonus?

 

I also was curious about this idea for a fleet. Very boring on paper but might be fun to play.

 

5x Devastation Cruisers

LD8 warmaster

Total = 1000 points

 

10 lances @ 60cm coupled with 20 LB worth of attack craft will hopefully give me the ability to cripple them at range, as I'm going to be weak up close.

[Vaaish]

Not as powerful as you think. You need a high number of rerolls to make that fleet work as well as squadroning your ships or the largest size attack wave that will hit is 4 AC. Without rerolls, you fail to RO on one ship and your are toast. As you said, up close you are weak, so which fleet WOULDN'T AAF up next to you?

[Grey Mage]

I read in the FAQ that the Repulsive can buy another shield for 15 pts (and then has to be on a large base) - good idea? Does that then make her a battleship?

Frankly it should be on a large base anyways, and I say the shield is a must-have.

 

Your 5x Devastation list looks like alot of fun. Itll win big or die though...

 

Id say at 1500, Taking a Styx instead of one of them, a Repulsive- with shield, and a Murder to back it up. Nicely rounds out at 1500pts, with 22 attack craft itll make tau wince a bit.

[minigun762]

Not as powerful as you think. You need a high number of rerolls to make that fleet work as well as squadroning your ships or the largest size attack wave that will hit is 4 AC. Without rerolls, you fail to RO on one ship and your are toast. As you said, up close you are weak, so which fleet WOULDN'T AAF up next to you?

I was assuming I'd have to squadron them in at least pairs. Might be one of 2 and another of 3.

 

Your 5x Devastation list looks like alot of fun. Itll win big or die though...

 

Prettty much exactly what I was assuming. It was more a silly/fun list then a serious one.

 

Doing some extra review and research, it finally hit me why the Chaos standard seems to be carnage and devastations. In both cases they can hang back @ 60cm and start engaging from a broadside position. They don't have to close with (most) opponents and so they never have to expose their weak nose. Not having to turn also means that you could use lock on immediately to add extra hits, plus the fact that each ship is dedicated to either lances or batteries means that you don't have to waste one and can instead fire them in whatever order is best.

I feel kinda dumb that it took me so long... :D

 

Murders will be more exposed if/when they have to close but 2 murders put out more firepower @ 60cm (against heavy armor) and more up close then a dev/carnage combo would for cheaper, but you do lack any kind of attack craft.

[Vaaish]

The traditional chaos fleet is this:

2x Devastation

2x Carnage

2x Acheron

1x Desolator

 

It works on the principle that you sit abeam and pic away as you circle the enemy fleet. Theoretically it gains in power as you close because it is battery heavy with the carnages. In practice, a good opponent can close quickly and easily enough that you end up with a knife fight anyway and you are forced to squadron the carnages to get any decent output. Basically, what I've always seen happen is that the carnage sits back and picks away at range doing little if any damage while the enemy fleet closes. Once up close it does alright but no better than the much cheaper slaughter. The murder is a trade off. It can close at range using the heavy lances as it does without much shooting back and once it reaches 45cm it can turn and operate like the carnage. It theoretically won't do as much damage as the potential damage the carnage can put out, but I think it's a more versatile ship.

 

To be honest you can get away with the soft prow pointing at a target if you give them something more pressing to deal with. To do that you'd need all elements of the fleet able to hit simultaneously but in their best range band and each element needs to have enough threat potential to make it a losing situation to deal with either. For example, the list I talked about earlier. If you drop the desolator you can fit in two slaughters giving you this:

 

2x Devastation

2x Hades

2x Murder

2x Slaughters

 

That allows the devastations to sit abeam at 60cm launching ordnance and using their lances, the hades and murders to close and use their lanes and the slaughters to shoot ahead and get in the middle unloading those massive broadsides up close where they can strip shields and be a general nuisance. Since the murders and hades all have lances, you can then lock on and use those nice 60cm BM ignoring weapons to greatest effect.

[minigun762]

2x Devastation

2x Hades

2x Murder

2x Slaughters

 

That allows the devastations to sit abeam at 60cm launching ordnance and using their lances, the hades and murders to close and use their lanes and the slaughters to shoot ahead and get in the middle unloading those massive broadsides up close where they can strip shields and be a general nuisance. Since the murders and hades all have lances, you can then lock on and use those nice 60cm BM ignoring weapons to greatest effect.

 

I thought we had discussed earlier that 1-2 Slaughters in a list weren't worthwhile so I'm confused by what you're saying now. Not that I disagree because my original thinking was that a few Slaughters could hopefully pin the enemy down at range, allowing the bulk of your fleet to maintain distance for longer. It felt like a variation on the old RTS tactic of using a short range/melee unit to engage an enemy up close while the bulk of your long range forces pile on the damage. Its dangerous for the Slaughters but you might be able to mitigate that by throwing some fighters out front to absorb incoming ordnance or maybe lead with an escort squadron to force LD checks to fire on the actual threat.

 

Not related to fleet discussion but how useful is that extra 5cm of speed that Chaos cruisers have?

[Vaaish]

I believe I said a single slaughter wouldn't perform well. At this point we are talking theory rather than practice, hence the theoretical list I posted up there as a counterpoint to the traditional chaos list. It's also a much more complex list to use since you have to balance three separate elements and ensure they all manage to get where needed at the right moment. It also doesn't have any room for error since you aren't able to take any rerolls and you are dependent on the whim of the dice for LD. It was meant as an example of how you can lessen the impact of the soft chaos prow. The problem being that you only get one turn for all of the firing solutions to line up. Fail that and the slaughters are past enemy lines and turning around while everything else is closing. The same effect can be achieved with the Desolator in front although it works just as well hanging back with it's lances.

 

The extra 5cm is nice but it makes the chaos ships have a slightly wider turning radius than IN although it keeps them moving at 20cm when a BM is placed. It's not a huge thing but helps here and there.

[minigun762]

I believe I said a single slaughter wouldn't perform well. At this point we are talking theory rather than practice, hence the theoretical list I posted up there as a counterpoint to the traditional chaos list.

 

Understood. Sorry if I came across in a negative fashion, I was just confused thats all. You're help has been very much appreciated!

 

EDIT: I would like to add in a second "command" ship after the Desolator, so something bigger then a normal cruiser but smaller then a battleship. I've narrowed it down to either the Styx or the Retaliator. Both are pretty similar overall with the Styx having more ordnance and longer range while the Retaliator has more endurance and better firepower when surrounded.

 

Any reason one of these would beat out the other?