How to counter Plague Marines

[shatter]

I like PC blasts for being able to target one unit yet still be able to hit another or both. I enjoy being able to target the corner of a vehicle with them, and still cause losses to units (AP2 hurts) around it while still enjoying fair odds of immob/killing the transport itself. This is what MLs cannot do. Their frag can't hurt the vehicle and they aint AP2. Their krak cannot blast thereby fail to hit other units.

 

I really like scatter and try to appreciate it's likely footprint as much as possible.

[d503]

librarian, plasma pistol (unleash rage, shield)

command squad with 4 plasmaguns.

 

That should cut a huge hole in any nasty nurgle stuff, and not cost too much.

 

5+ cover save and feel no pain will reduce incoming fire quite considerably, too.

[DreadLift]

Without wanting to hijack the post but broadening the subject. I see alot of Plague Marine army's using Typhus. How would you deal with him ?

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

Without wanting to hijack the post but broadening the subject. I see alot of Plague Marine army's using Typhus. How would you deal with him ?

 

Powerfist him. Laugh at him. He's really that bad.

[Black Memories]

Yeah Typhus isnt very good. My friend was using Typhus (pretty good chaos player) and switched him out for a daemon prince or Khârn with berserkers because the value is just not there with Typhus. I agree he's really over rated.

 

Despite what a Lot of internet forums seem to state (as far as effectiveness goes), the model that really causes me a lot of problems and worry in a chaos list is Abaddon. He's an absolute wrecker. He's like mephiston with an invuln that hides in a transport and/or within a troop unit. He's very tough to get after without a lot of sacrifice.

[1Drop]

Yeah Typhus isnt very good. My friend was using Typhus (pretty good chaos player) and switched him out for a daemon prince or Khârn with berserkers because the value is just not there with Typhus. I agree he's really over rated.

 

Despite what a Lot of internet forums seem to state (as far as effectiveness goes), the model that really causes me a lot of problems and worry in a chaos list is Abaddon. He's an absolute wrecker. He's like mephiston with an invuln that hides in a transport and/or within a troop unit. He's very tough to get after without a lot of sacrifice.

 

Last time I used Abaddon you could only field him at 2000 points or greater, is that still the case now?

[Black Memories]

I dont believe theres a point value restriction on him, but i could be wrong. Either way he isnt used often in smaller games, Khârn is.

[d@n]

AP 1-2 weapons and power weapons along with poison weapons are good for plague marines.

[Black Memories]

Blood Angels don't have a significant amount of poisoned attacks. Even so I'm not sure a 4+ guarunteed to wound instead of a 5+ is that much better, especially since you're dealing with a 3+ save and feel no pain.

 

As suggested though Ap 1, 2 weapons and such are very effective. Lightning claws are good. Keep in mind you CAN out-assault plague marines, which is a strategy many here seem to be avoiding. Just make sure you're using the right units to do it (death company, meph, assault terminators, furiosos, etc). Rushing in tons of RAS will likely produce a draw and thus is an unfavorable combat.

[daboarder]

Yeah Typhus isnt very good. My friend was using Typhus (pretty good chaos player) and switched him out for a daemon prince or Khârn with berserkers because the value is just not there with Typhus. I agree he's really over rated.

 

Despite what a Lot of internet forums seem to state (as far as effectiveness goes), the model that really causes me a lot of problems and worry in a chaos list is Abaddon. He's an absolute wrecker. He's like mephiston with an invuln that hides in a transport and/or within a troop unit. He's very tough to get after without a lot of sacrifice.

 

Last time I used Abaddon you could only field him at 2000 points or greater, is that still the case now?

 

NOPE! hes a T5, S8, I6, 4+inv, EW, Re-rolling to wound freight train in terminator armor.

 

....oh and he can get 10 attacks.

[1Drop]

Yeah Typhus isnt very good. My friend was using Typhus (pretty good chaos player) and switched him out for a daemon prince or Khârn with berserkers because the value is just not there with Typhus. I agree he's really over rated.

 

Despite what a Lot of internet forums seem to state (as far as effectiveness goes), the model that really causes me a lot of problems and worry in a chaos list is Abaddon. He's an absolute wrecker. He's like mephiston with an invuln that hides in a transport and/or within a troop unit. He's very tough to get after without a lot of sacrifice.

 

Last time I used Abaddon you could only field him at 2000 points or greater, is that still the case now?

 

NOPE! hes a T5, S8, I6, 4+inv, EW, Re-rolling to wound freight train in terminator armor.

 

....oh and he can get 10 attacks.

 

Yeah, he's amazing but when he was first released you could only use him in 2000 points games and above!

 

What are your opinions on kharne the betrayer? He's one of my favourite characters from a fluff perspective, I wonder how he fairs in a competitive invironment these days.

[daboarder]

He's another wrecking ball and his killing of your own troops is actually not a problem because anything else you roll is killing your opponents troops. lack of EW hurts but he's cheap enough that that isn't an issue.

 

edit: oh and he monsters dreadnoughts with melta bombs that hit on 2+

[1Drop]

Really want to start another chaos army cos there is so much that you can do but if I start again I would like to create my own chapter that is fully given over to the blood god or one of the other gods, maybe tzeetch for the psychic stuff but then again slanesh seams really fun to model too... Thing is though are plague marines not the best? Maybe nurgle would be the way to go in that case, afterall I've already done a khornate themed army.

 

Amy suggestions?

[JamesI]

This isn't really the place to discuss the quality of Chaos armies, except how to kill them of course.

[1Drop]

Sorry James, just wanted some advice saying as his BA nurgle army is so badass, it's really inspired me!

[daboarder]

1Drop go start a post in the chaos forum of your choice, I trawl most of those and post pretty frequently.

 

edit: oh and all chaos is pretty viable nurgle and khorn just seem to be easiest to play.

[Black Memories]

Khârn is a serious pain in chaos armies. He's a total troop/vehicle scythe, much like a mini-mephiston. I've used mephiston against him to do some damage. Other than that his high base stength and I make him very tough to just throw units at, and he absolutely tears apart dreadnoughts with his 2d6 rolls to pen. If he gets the charge with berserkers on your unit, its probably gone. Assault terminators or mephiston or multiple assaults is the way to go, or templating his unit with a few vindis if you prefer the shooting approach.

[Taz]

Just make sure you're using the right units to do it (death company, meph, assault terminators, furiosos, etc). Rushing in tons of RAS will likely produce a draw and thus is an unfavorable combat.

QFT

Our assault squads, while being totally awesome troops and waaaaaaaaay better than everyone forever until the end of time, are still average marines with average combat. FC and FNP help, but you need something more than the damage the RAS can cause against plague marines. Use them as support, but don't make them do the heavy lifting, so to speak.

 

Hilariously enough the only time I've run into Abbadon since our codex came out he was a count-as leading a Nurgle army. After I immobilized his Land Raider he got out and I assaulted him with a RAS backed up by a Libby with UR. He rolled a 1 for his Daemon Weapon, and actually rolled more ones during his saves and died. Judging from my opponents face he was probably the biggest failbaddon ever.

[Wildcard101]

I play CSM as well as Blood Angels.

 

If I use my CSM some things I hate to happen to me:

 

Keep the Missile Launchers, use it to take down the Plague Marines Rhinos.

then shoot the Daemon Princes with them, the best they'll have are 4+ Cover Save behind Rhinos, 5+ invul if the Rhino explodes in front of him.

 

walking Plague Marines will take turns before they do some use.

 

Add more Missile Launchers or get a Rifleman Dread to take on Rhinos & score more Wounds on the Daemon Princes. Keep the Rifleman Dread behind some good cover, it won't matter if the opponent gets a Cover Save, since they're Armour Save is better than the Cover Save.

 

Obliterators are a real threat, especially when they're in a good shooting position. DS Vanguard Vets with power weapons will do wonders, if they connect.

 

As stated by others use 2 units of Assault Squads to take on a Plague Marine unit. They can't save them all.

 

A Furioso Dread will be useful, but will take the Obliterators attention.

 

You're lucky your opponent hasn't considered using Winged Lash Princes.

[General Ravensong]

As I play both BA and Nurgle I'd have to say you really need to protect whatever it is you plan on being your big plague marine killer.

We love our plague marines, and when we see a Dread of any sort drop down with blood talons the obliterators will tend to focus fire on them, so never just bring one, bring 2-3. That said, plasma will wreck our day all day long because it'll wound us on twos and deny us both armor and feel no pain (Don't let your buddy tell you otherwise, whether it be ignorance, cheating, or wishful thinking). They may be expensive, but I'd actually suggest drop podding combi sternguard with double plasmaguns into the fray once the rhinos are popped or if the rhino's haven't been cracked yet then those T6 demon princes can get focus fired on with hellfire rounds... which will make him roll bunches of saves since they wound on 2s, which paired with the invuln saves from the plasmas should make him wet himself.

DC with a couple power weapons and a chappy will probably carry their way all the way through a combat, hitting and wounding on 3s and 4s with rerolls. You won't get bonus attacks on the charge unless you're charging something already engaged from a previous round of combat, so use that to your advantage too, charge with something that will survive and follow up next turn with something more killy.

 

Sanguinary guard are cool, but as I recall correctly one of the biggest gripes people have about them is that you don't get an extra cc attack with the swords and angelis boltguns. so when you charge PMs, your squad of 5 has 10 attacks, 6-7 hits after rerolls, so probably 3 wounds if you have furious charge at the time. so you won't be able to sweep through the squad, and when they hit back the remaining and they usually will get 2-3 wounds reliably back on you, leaving you to get charged yourself.

 

Protect your priest.

Keep multiple models in base to base with his power fist whenever possible, feel no pain gives you a fighting chance to not get dragged down when you get caught in a tar pit.

Another key note is that PMs are I3, so power weapons are super awesome because when you get your wound or two on them those models don't get to respond.

My List for dealing with PMs at 2k would look like this

 

naked reclusiarch

2 5 man RAS with TL laz razors and a plasmagun in each squad

2 10 man RAS with JP, a sword, and one or two meltas

2 10 man Sternguard with pods and at least a fist, ideally one with double melta, one with double plasma

8 man dc with 3 pw and a fist in a rhino

and about 200 points of whatever floats your boat, be they more upgrades or more boots, if you want a different HQ you can drop the reclusiarch down to a chappy.

This should be a pretty balanced list with plenty of shooting that negates either FNP or T5 entirely. The two lazcannon razors should scare the oblits enough that the DC can get within choppy distance... with the power weapons from the squad hopefully doing upwards of 6-7 wounds... maybe a couple more from the chappy... and at that point they're probably in a position to at least continue to be a nuisance for the rest of the game, if not continuing to be more killy.