Ace Debonair Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 So, back on topic for a second. :) A question does occur to me - what if someone were to make a DIY Chapter that had traitor geneseed, and went on to turn against the Imperium? Would you consider that more acceptable than making a Chapter of loyal World Eaters / Alpha Legion / any of the other traitor legions? EDIT: Thought I'd better add the rest of the traitor legions. Forgot there was more than two, evidently. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230235-the-donts-of-traitor-geneseed/page/3/#findComment-2768360 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 So, back on topic for a second. :P A question does occur to me - what if someone were to make a DIY Chapter that had traitor geneseed, and went on to turn against the Imperium? Would you consider that more acceptable than making a Chapter of loyal World Eaters / Alpha Legion / any of the other traitor legions? EDIT: Thought I'd better add the rest of the traitor legions. Forgot there was more than two, evidently. :lol: As part of the Cursed Founding, tinkering to improve the loyalty.. Would be an interesting concept, but what could the Curse be? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230235-the-donts-of-traitor-geneseed/page/3/#findComment-2768370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Payton Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Warhounds aren't so bad. It's once you start getting into Warlords and Reavers that there are problems. Of course, the Traitors can call on Titan Legions, too. Still. It wouldn't exactly be a pushover. Don't forget the Imperator Emperor Class Titian :P and if the Legio Ordo Sinister get involved, well they got 12 of them :lol: They're a warm-up act compared to the Divisio Telepathica. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230235-the-donts-of-traitor-geneseed/page/3/#findComment-2768388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 As part of the Cursed Founding, tinkering to improve the loyalty.. Would be an interesting concept, but what could the Curse be? Well, the obvious one is to have them fall to Chaos worship really quickly. ;) Otherwise, I'd say that depends on the geneseed. I'd have it impact on whatever positive qualitites you wanted the geneseed to bestow, so they're essentially a watered-down version of whichever-traitor-legion, and have anyone who knows about their origins more than a little disappointed they didn't recreate the Night Lords/Luna Wolves/Emperor's Children/Etc of old. But that might just be me pitching silly ideas again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230235-the-donts-of-traitor-geneseed/page/3/#findComment-2768430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 As part of the Cursed Founding, tinkering to improve the loyalty.. Would be an interesting concept, but what could the Curse be? Well, the obvious one is to have them fall to Chaos worship really quickly. :ermm: Otherwise, I'd say that depends on the geneseed. I'd have it impact on whatever positive qualitites you wanted the geneseed to bestow, so they're essentially a watered-down version of whichever-traitor-legion, and have anyone who knows about their origins more than a little disappointed they didn't recreate the Night Lords/Luna Wolves/Emperor's Children/Etc of old. But that might just be me pitching silly ideas again. No, I think those a good ideas. I would also say the curse could possibly include fanaticism, lower thinking skills, or more susceptibility to either taint or "bad luck." Maybe they lose more ships in the warp? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230235-the-donts-of-traitor-geneseed/page/3/#findComment-2768691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epistolary Exander Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 As part of the Cursed Founding, tinkering to improve the loyalty.. Would be an interesting concept, but what could the Curse be? Well, the obvious one is to have them fall to Chaos worship really quickly. :) Otherwise, I'd say that depends on the geneseed. I'd have it impact on whatever positive qualitites you wanted the geneseed to bestow, so they're essentially a watered-down version of whichever-traitor-legion, and have anyone who knows about their origins more than a little disappointed they didn't recreate the Night Lords/Luna Wolves/Emperor's Children/Etc of old. But that might just be me pitching silly ideas again. No, I think those a good ideas. I would also say the curse could possibly include fanaticism, lower thinking skills, or more susceptibility to either taint or "bad luck." Maybe they lose more ships in the warp? If they were to be unlucky, Id imagine it would be similiar bad luck to what the Lamenters get i.e. the chapter gets screwed over for being in the wrong place at the wrong time etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230235-the-donts-of-traitor-geneseed/page/3/#findComment-2768847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 No, I think those a good ideas. I would also say the curse could possibly include fanaticism, lower thinking skills, or more susceptibility to either taint or "bad luck." Maybe they lose more ships in the warp? If they were to be unlucky, Id imagine it would be similiar bad luck to what the Lamenters get i.e. the chapter gets screwed over for being in the wrong place at the wrong time etc. I'd have the precise nature of the curse vary from genseed to geneseed, but basically I'd have it emulate the worst parts of the legion in question rather than the best. Or the experiment to recreate the loyalists could work brilliantly, but you have them fall to Chaos in a different way. For instance, say you made a Chapter using Angron's geneseed, which eventually get themselves a reputation for always fighting long past the point they should give up and not caring about casualties. Then say you have them corrupted by Nurgle one way or another, so they can keep fighting even longer. :D Or make some Slaaneshi Death Guard. Or Tzeentchian Night Lords. :) ...But again, I suppose the key question is, why do any of that when you can basically do the exact same thing but easier with loyalist gene-seed? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230235-the-donts-of-traitor-geneseed/page/3/#findComment-2768857 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDVoid Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 There are many chapters of unknown gene-seed stock. Many of unknown foundings, How do we know the imperium is NOT using the gene-seed. There is but one that Could not be used and that is the thousand sons as the rubric would take effect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230235-the-donts-of-traitor-geneseed/page/3/#findComment-2769002 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 There are many chapters of unknown gene-seed stock. Many of unknown foundings,How do we know the imperium is NOT using the gene-seed. There is but one that Could not be used and that is the thousand sons as the rubric would take effect. Is that so? I know a couple of psychically ungifted marines who should have Magnus' geneseed, even though they don't know it. In that chapter though there are hints of the flesh-change (in the novel at least) BTW, does the fact that the Blood Ravens are of Magnus' descent still warrant a spoiler tag? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230235-the-donts-of-traitor-geneseed/page/3/#findComment-2769008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted May 24, 2011 Author Share Posted May 24, 2011 Well...is it actually a fact? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230235-the-donts-of-traitor-geneseed/page/3/#findComment-2769014 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Well...is it actually a fact?Just to be on the safe side Well, there is no publication I am aware of that says "The Blood Ravens are made from Magnus' geneseed." as far as I know, but: In "A Thousand Sons" there is a vision says "the Raven of Blood will remain loyal to the end" In the same book one of the Cults within the Thousand Sons is called the Corvidae [Link] In the "Blood Ravens Omnibus" Arhiman calls the stranded Librarian "brother". Whether this is just a common greeting from marine to marine or only from those that share a heritage, I don't know. In Dawn of War Dark Crusade Eliphas calls Thule brother as well but only mockingly. At the End of the Blood Ravens Omnibus, the newest Battle-Brother Ckrius has tentacles for hands at the end of the transformation process. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230235-the-donts-of-traitor-geneseed/page/3/#findComment-2769032 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 And in Age of Darkness: A member of the Corvidae is fighting against Khârn the Betrayer- and seems to still be loyal to the Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230235-the-donts-of-traitor-geneseed/page/3/#findComment-2769039 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 It seems I'm not up to date with the HH series. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230235-the-donts-of-traitor-geneseed/page/3/#findComment-2769042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted May 24, 2011 Author Share Posted May 24, 2011 Their whole fluff is very leaky. Five years ago (or whatever) if someone laid out their fluff in Liber on this site they'd be given a C- Must Try Harder lovetap from the Liber buffs. I don't deny it's possible, but whilst the intrigue behind the missing legions is interesting, the intrigue of the BR makes me hope DOWIII has them all mutate into multi laser armed eldar warp far spider seers with ork names. IMO, that is the only fitting end to that chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230235-the-donts-of-traitor-geneseed/page/3/#findComment-2769077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDVoid Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 There are many chapters of unknown gene-seed stock. Many of unknown foundings, How do we know the imperium is NOT using the gene-seed. There is but one that Could not be used and that is the thousand sons as the rubric would take effect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230235-the-donts-of-traitor-geneseed/page/3/#findComment-2769302 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Why would the Rubric take effect on the Thousand Sons? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230235-the-donts-of-traitor-geneseed/page/3/#findComment-2769344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Déjà vu? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230235-the-donts-of-traitor-geneseed/page/3/#findComment-2769355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Déjà vu? Close enough to a four-hour delayed double-post. Just when I thought I'd seen everything. I wasn't under the impression that the Rubric effected the geneseed, although I admit I don't know too much about the subject. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230235-the-donts-of-traitor-geneseed/page/3/#findComment-2769508 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 There are many chapters of unknown gene-seed stock. Many of unknown foundings,How do we know the imperium is NOT using the gene-seed. There is but one that Could not be used and that is the thousand sons as the rubric would take effect. Are there actually many chapters whose gene-seed is unknown to them as well, not just unknown to us? There is quite a big difference (for example, we don't know who the Squad Leader is in the 6th Squad of the Imperial Fists 3rd Company, but I am guessing the Imperial Fists do :D). If we are going on what we don't know is true, then this forum might as well shut down with regards to critque. We don't know the Imperium is secretly run by two Italian Plumbers, but I am sure if I wrote a chapter about such I would be mocked (and hopefully make people laugh as well.) We don't know if the Imperium really controls the Warp and just uses it to test the strength of their people....can you see where this is going? :P We can only go one what we do know and we know that there is no concrete evidence to suggest that any chapter has been founded (outside of the 13th/21st) that uses Traitor Gene-seed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230235-the-donts-of-traitor-geneseed/page/3/#findComment-2769524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 We don't know the Imperium is secretly run by two Italian Plumbers.. See, now I demand you write some form of something involving this concept. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230235-the-donts-of-traitor-geneseed/page/3/#findComment-2770587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justcar Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 I know this is kind of old, but i'll say it anyway! The ONLY geneseed that I could see being used would be Magnus' geneseed. This is because it offers the only thing that you can't train (psyonic ability). In addition, Magnus said that the Ksons geneseed was harvested at an ill-omened time, so the Magnus geneseed in the vault COULD actually be stable... We also pretty much KNOW that they did it before! I could see someone trying this specific geneseed simply because you cannot train psychic power. And maybe the imperium needs chapters with more psychic powers! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230235-the-donts-of-traitor-geneseed/page/3/#findComment-2820199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Oh, this again. :) I'd say you could always give it a shot provided you don't just copy/paste the pre-heresy legions. That's rather boring (and makes your chapter suffer from MISS - how come your lads haven't gone all chaos-y when the original legions and their Primarch decided to jump on the dark side bandwagon?) I'd say it's possible to do loyalist-traitors, but only with exceptional writing, a very interesting and characterful Chapter (different from the old legions!), and to be on the safe side, killing them off or turning them to Chaos anyway. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230235-the-donts-of-traitor-geneseed/page/3/#findComment-2820482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skamp Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 since were on the topic of geneseeds............what does a geneseed look like? i always pictured it looking like some form of frog egg lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230235-the-donts-of-traitor-geneseed/page/3/#findComment-2821101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 since were on the topic of geneseeds............what does a geneseed look like? i always pictured it looking like some form of frog egg lol The traitor geneseeds look like a miniature skull-and-crossbones. That's the real reason why the High Lords don't use them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230235-the-donts-of-traitor-geneseed/page/3/#findComment-2821122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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